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Lebanon greets freed prisoners, Israel mourns remains

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Five Lebanese prisoners released by Israel as part of an exchange deal with the Hezbollah movement have received a heroes' welcome on returning home. Samir Kuntar, who was jailed for three murders in Israel, and four men captured during the 2006 war with Hezbollah were swapped for coffins containing the remains two Israeli soldiers. Ehud Goldwasser and Eldad Regev were captured during the cross-border raid by Hezbollah which sparked the 34-day war in 2006. "The Israelis certainly lost that war, they did not get their prisoners back - not until now and they're getting them back dead. So more than 1,000 Lebanese civilians and more than 160 Israelis, most of them soldiers, all died for absolutely nothing and that's what today's prisoner exchanges prove.

full article

what is your take on the exchange? what progress, if any, does it signify for Israeli-Lebanese relations?

Moral victory on Israel's side, but for a way too high price. Disgusting barbaric Lebeanese reaction, as usual, though.

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Originally posted by TranceGiant Moral victory on Israel's side, but for a way too high price. Disgusting barbaric Lebeanese reaction, as usual, though.

Well you need to separate "Lebanon" with "Hizballah" in this instance, they're Hizballah prisoners. It's also worth pointing out that Israel returned the remains of 200 Lebanese and Palestinians...

i completely understand why the people have Lebanon have reacted as they did, its a form of catharsis after so much tears and mourning for all the innocent civilians barbarically butchered by Israels war machine that went haywire over two soldiers and disproportionately bombed Lebanon back to the stone age.

and i feel for the Israelis too, i really do, and i hope both sides realise how fucking stupid this war was but i know that will never happen, both sides will continue to think they have the moral high ground and will continue to murder each other over stupid shit this

I don't believe anything but total anihilation of either side will ever end this conflict. Chilling, I know...

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Originally posted by George Smiley Well you need to separate "Lebanon" with "Hizballah" in this instance, they're Hizballah prisoners. It's also worth pointing out that Israel returned the remains of 200 Lebanese and Palestinians...

Well, that's the point, though, unfortunately. It IS "Lebanon" I'm talking about since political leaders from all ideological corners are participating in the celebrations. Be it the Prime minister, all religious authorities and even Druze leaders who are at war with Hizballah. Not to mention the Palestinians and their President Abbas who called Kuntar a "brave man" and expressed his joy for his final return.
On a side note Kuntar carried out his "operation" (well actually the cruel massacre of an entire family party with his bear hands) long before Hizballah even came into being. Nasrallah is just cynically exploiting his so-called mrtyr status for his own propaganda.
As for the TWO HUNDRED, we're talking about fighters who died on the battleground against Israeli forces, as it regularly happens when two parties fight. That just cannot be compared with the unmotivated abduction and killing of soldiers patroulling beyond your own borders. But of course nothing's simpler than the good old "both sides are bad" argument. So tempting and yet so wrong, at least concerning this topic.

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Originally posted by Krypton I don't believe anything but total anihilation of either side will ever end this conflict. Chilling, I know...

i've been saying that for a while.

They couldnt have done this exchange before they bombed the shit out of Lebenon?

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer They couldnt have done this exchange before they bombed the shit out of Lebenon?

if the goal is to recover the soldiers 'alive' without giving up palestinians(hezbollah) then no. it was the prospect of never recovering the bodies that brought it to this point. immediately after the capture it appeared (to the israelis) they could recover them through military operations.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 immediately after the capture it appeared (to the israelis) they could recover them through military operations.

Which ended up being a huge failure and didnt solve anything at all.They just made alot of people pissed off and many killed for two captured soldiers.

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer Which ended up being a huge failure and didnt solve anything at all.They just made alot of people pissed off and many killed for two captured soldiers.

Then again, Hezbollah shouldn't be going around capturing soldiers in the first place.

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Originally posted by Krypton Then again, Hezbollah shouldn't be going around capturing soldiers in the first place.

I agree.Keep in mind that both sides have been capturing soldiers for on both sides for years.Iam just wondering why Isreal decided to go to war against a whole country over two captured soldiers.Also I really want to know what made the Hezbollah to go and capture those two Isreali soldiers.

this worthless piece of dogshit in 1979 killed 5 people including a 4 year old girl and was serving consecutive life sentences. i sincerely hope the Israeli government got their money's worth.

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer I agree.Keep in mind that both sides have been capturing soldiers for on both sides for years.Iam just wondering why Isreal decided to go to war against a whole country over two captured soldiers.Also I really want to know what made the Hezbollah to go and capture those two Isreali soldiers.

i wouldn't exactly say that israeli capturing hezbollah 'soldiers' (which is a questionable characterization given the implied validity of the title) is the same as hezbollah capturing israeli soldiers. a more accurate characterization is that israel capture criminals.

it should seem obvious why hezbollah captured israeli soldiers - to attain the situation which just occurred (i.e, a release of hezbollah prisoners). i personally think it was a huge mistake to make the trade because it gives the tactic validity. Hezbollah even said that this trade shows that capturing israeli soldiers is a good tactic for just this reason. this was a huge misstep by the israelis.

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer I agree.Keep in mind that both sides have been capturing soldiers for on both sides for years.Iam just wondering why Isreal decided to go to war against a whole country over two captured soldiers.Also I really want to know what made the Hezbollah to go and capture those two Isreali soldiers.

Both sides appear dispicable to me. Though I sympathize with the occupied, Hezbollah still has some dirt on its hands.

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Originally posted by Krypton Then again, Hezbollah shouldn't be going around capturing soldiers in the first place.

Well that would depend on who you believe as to where the soldiers were captured...

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Originally posted by Krypton Both sides appear dispicable to me. Though I sympathize with the occupied, Hezbollah still has some dirt on its hands.

"Hizballah" (you mean South Lebanon) is no longer occupied. Israel withdrew in 2000 after nearly 20 years of occupation. Israel still occupies the Shebaa Farms area, which is technically Syrian but Syria ceded it to Lebanon so that Hizballah still has a raisin d'etre. If Israel were shrewd politically, and not effected by symbolism or 'saving face' then they would give Shebaa to Lebanon and then the onus would be on Hizballah to disband like they said they would...

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 i wouldn't exactly say that israeli capturing hezbollah 'soldiers' (which is a questionable characterization given the implied validity of the title) is the same as hezbollah capturing israeli soldiers. a more accurate characterization is that israel capture criminals.

Israeli soldiers that operate in Lebanon are technically criminals, so any captured over the border would be just the same as Israel capturing Hizballah fighters in Israel

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it should seem obvious why hezbollah captured israeli soldiers - to attain the situation which just occurred (i.e, a release of hezbollah prisoners). i personally think it was a huge mistake to make the trade because it gives the tactic validity. Hezbollah even said that this trade shows that capturing israeli soldiers is a good tactic for just this reason. this was a huge misstep by the israelis.

Hizballah captured the soldiers to take attention away from Iran's nuclear programme as world leaders were meeting and that was high on the agenda. That all changed when Israel invaded Lebanon and world leaders were talking about that instead

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Originally posted by George Smiley and then the onus would be on Hizballah to disband like they said they would...

right Hiz still launches their rockets from all over the South.

incidentally, where do you believe Eldad Regev and Ehud Goldwasser were captured?

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Originally posted by Q5echo right Hiz still launches their rockets from all over the South.

And?

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incidentally, where do you believe Eldad Regev and Ehud Goldwasser were captured?

No idea! I've heard conflicting accounts and I wasn't there I'm afraid

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Originally posted by George Smiley And?

...and regardless of Shebaa, Hezbollah will still launch their rockets. /story

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No idea!

bullshit. you just don't wanna admit it. real courage there Georgey.

even Nasrallah said it was a cross-border raid. that was the whole idea. that was their entire philosophy behind the incident. to capture IDF soldiers, IN ISRAEL, to get their degenerates back.

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Originally posted by Q5echo ...and regardless of Shebaa, Hezbollah will still launch their rockets. /story

Christ it's hard trying to get through to people sometimes innit?!

At the moment, there is no pressure on Hizballah to disarm because of the occupation of Shebaa Farms. If that region was not occupied, then politically, Hizballah would come under mounting pressure to disarm as there would no longer be any stated reason for them to exist as a resistance group.

Of course they probably won't disband and may continue striking Israel (altho you make out this happens every day when in fact it's a fairly rare occasion) but the extra pressure would be there...

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bullshit. you just don't wanna admit it. real courage there Georgey. even Nasrallah said it was a cross-border raid. that was the whole idea. that was their entire philosophy behind the incident. to capture IDF soldiers, IN ISRAEL, to get their degenerates back.

It's most likely they were captured in Israel, but I have no doubt Israeli military carries out operations deep within Lebanon territory. However, like I said, there were conflicting accounts at the time the kidnapping took place

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Originally posted by George Smiley At the moment, there is no pressure on Hizballah to disarm because of the occupation of Shebaa Farms. If that region was not occupied, then politically, Hizballah would come under mounting pressure to disarm as there would no longer be any stated reason for them to exist as a resistance group.

pressure from who? the UN? the UN says that Israel has complied with UN.Res.425 and Shebaa was not part of the deal.

pressure from who? the Siniora Government? the government can't tell Hezbollah to do shit.

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Of course they probably won't disband and may continue striking Israel

exactly. Shebaa is a DISTRACTION. Shebaa is an EXCUSE. it's an excuse for Syria (because Shebaa is theirs) and it's an excuse for Hezbollah because hezbollah will stop at nothing to wage war with Israel. when UNIFIL is occupying Shebaa this year, nothing will change.

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(altho you make out this happens every day when in fact it's a fairly rare occasion) but the extra pressure would be there...

of course it's rare now. you weren't saying that prior to the summer of 2006. prior to 2006 rockets were raining by the thousands

despite that, despite the latest hostage exchange, despite the seize fire, despite the presence of UNIFIL Hizbollah rockets still kill Israelis to this day.

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Originally posted by Q5echo pressure from who? the UN? the UN says that Israel has complied with UN.Res.425 and Shebaa was not part of the deal. pressure from who? the Siniora Government? the government can't tell Hezbollah to do shit.

Pressure from everyone that wants them to disband, from America, EU and UN, to domestic pressures in Lebanon

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exactly. Shebaa is a DISTRACTION. Shebaa is an EXCUSE. it's an excuse for Syria (because Shebaa is theirs) and it's an excuse for Hezbollah because hezbollah will stop at nothing to wage war with Israel. when UNIFIL is occupying Shebaa this year, nothing will change.

It might not change, but it would take away that excuse wouldn't it?

You're very naive when it comes to politics. The whole point of the "pressure" is that atm, there are a lot who sympathise with Hizballah, just like the Palestinian militias. These range from individuals to senior politicians. This 'support' alleviates any pressure on these groups to stop their activities. Take away the reason for that support/sympathy and pressure starts to build up. In Northern Ireland, the IRA were able to continue for decades because of sympathy/support in NI and America. Following the change in British policy, Omagh and 9/11, that support/sympathy evaporated and the IRA pretty much had to cease their activities. If Israel concentrated on removing the reasons why Hizballah and the Palestinian terrorists get outside support, then maybe their experience would be similar? The fact is, Hizballah have stated that they will not disband while Israel occupies Lebanon, specifically Shebaa. Shebaa is about as worthless to Israel as Gaza so what do they have to lose?

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of course it's rare now. you weren't saying that prior to the summer of 2006. prior to 2006 rockets were raining by the thousands

Thousands!? Come on now, did you just make that figure up?!

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despite that, despite the latest hostage exchange, despite the seize fire, despite the presence of UNIFIL Hizbollah rockets still kill Israelis to this day.

Do they?

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Originally posted by George Smiley Pressure from everyone that wants them to disband, from America, EU and UN, to domestic pressures in Lebanon

what the world wants and what Hezbollah wants are two TOTALLY different things aren't they?

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It might not change, but it would take away that excuse wouldn't it?

i'm naive?

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Thousands!? Come on now, did you just make that figure up?!

oh my bad i got Hezbollah mixed up with that other terrorist orginization funded, trained and equiped by Iran that fires rockets. Hamas.

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