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sub bass

DO you guys make sub bass that is totally inaudible but just a low tone that works with the drum?

I usually make bass thats audible but would like to try and get phatter bottom end

I never make sub bass, i just take it becomes a part of the bass.

All depends on the track Mark, if it needs it add it for sure

i dunno man i usually high pass the track at 20hz-40hz leaving only audible bass... i think that any inaudible element in a track is a waste of precious headroom...

i always have a sub bass. a nice sub gives the track a powerful drive

quote:

Originally posted by sterilis i always have a sub bass. a nice sub gives the track a powerful drive

But why is then that people tell you to cut out the rumble below around 40 Hz? Where is the sub-bass ur talking about located in the freq spectrum?

different stroke for different folks. i high pass everything at 20 hz. my sub sits in the 25 - 125 hz range then my other layers for my bass fill the rest of the low end up.

quote:

Originally posted by sterilis different stroke for different folks. i high pass everything at 20 hz. my sub sits in the 25 - 125 hz range then my other layers for my bass fill the rest of the low end up.

But isn't sub-bass characterized by that its subsonic and in-audiable? The human ear can hear frequencies all the way down to 20Hz as far as I know.. So if your sub sits in the 25 - 125 range, it isn't actually sub-bass is it?

quote:

Originally posted by lenieNt Force But isn't sub-bass characterized by that its subsonic and in-audiable? The human ear can hear frequencies all the way down to 20Hz as far as I know.. So if your sub sits in the 25 - 125 range, it isn't actually sub-bass is it?

i think that sub-bass in music reffers to below your bass and not actually an in-audible sub bass... i guess if your bass runs at aprox 80 hz. base freq. you can add a sub bass in 40 hz. aprox... if i lack bass i make another bassline one octave below and run it on a LP filter of lets say 100hz and cut the first bass at 80hz and run them thru a compressor... that gives me an extra mile there... but again it really depends on various parameters...

but i think adding an inaudible sound isn't worth your while really...

sub bass can be audible. totally inaudible sounds are infrasound which are pointless in a track. sub bass is audible but more or less has no harmonics.

quote:

Originally posted by lenieNt Force But isn't sub-bass characterized by that its subsonic and in-audiable? The human ear can hear frequencies all the way down to 20Hz as far as I know.. So if your sub sits in the 25 - 125 range, it isn't actually sub-bass is it?

You are taking it too literally, sub-bass has come to define a super low oscillation that chugs the mix along, not so much an inaudible frequency .

Aight... This is actually what I've been thinking all the time, but lately I've just thought to myself after reading some article or something (can't remember exactly).. "hmm, so sub actually refers to sub-sonic, which means in-audible? so sub bass has to be in-audible then..?"

Incorrect assumption I guess..

Dont forget that even tho subbass might be inaudible, it can still be felt, can add a very powerful element to a track if played on a proper soundsystem at high volume...

sub bass is normally the second loudest part of my tracks, apart from the kick, and normalyl very very low freq but absolutely cranked to the max, fills out the bottom end very nicely

quote:

Originally posted by evo8 Dont forget that even tho subbass might be inaudible, it can still be felt, can add a very powerful element to a track if played on a proper soundsystem at high volume...

It depends on what you mean with sub bass. Most systems cannot output frequencies below 30Hz, even club systems. Frequencies below 30 Hz only eat up headroom and won't be felt any more than say frequencies at 50 Hz. Highpassing at 30 Hz is common in mastering.

I (almost) always use a sub bass. Mostly this will be placed between the 30 and 60Hz. I think it gives a track nice depth, but if you have a very low bass, this isn't really necessary. I always make sure that my subbass is audible.

quote:

Originally posted by Eldritch It depends on what you mean with sub bass. Most systems cannot output frequencies below 30Hz, even club systems. Frequencies below 30 Hz only eat up headroom and won't be felt any more than say frequencies at 50 Hz. Highpassing at 30 Hz is common in mastering.

oh yeah absolutely, i always highpass at around 30Hz also, so maybe 30-50Hz isnt exactly sub-bass, i dunno! Id just be wary of cutting out too much sub-bass, then again if ur tracks arent for clubs it probably wont be noticed

just remember everyone that a filter has a cerain curve (depends on the filter) so when putting a high pass running at 30hz it might just lower stuff until actually cutting it at lets say 10hz... that still leaves some inaudible sounds... just keep that in mind and know your filters...

quote:

Originally posted by Vortex_SA just remember everyone that a filter has a cerain curve (depends on the filter) so when putting a high pass running at 30hz it might just lower stuff until actually cutting it at lets say 10hz... that still leaves some inaudible sounds... just keep that in mind and know your filters...

Yeah. I use a 36dB/Octave filter somewhere between 30-40Hz.

quote:

Originally posted by Vortex_SA just remember everyone that a filter has a cerain curve (depends on the filter) so when putting a high pass running at 30hz it might just lower stuff until actually cutting it at lets say 10hz... that still leaves some inaudible sounds... just keep that in mind and know your filters...

good point, i use the elliptical filter on the cambridge...

bump

What kind of subbass do you guys use? I just tend to grab a Sinewave bass patch from my Virus, which seems to blend in nicely with higher basslines. However I do struggle to get the whole thing "running and thumping"

So this is what i do:
Have a kickdrum i am happy with uncompressed @ -8db
Have a "high" sawbass in a "running" pattern
Have the same pattern 1 octave lower with a sinebass

put both basses together on a subgroup which I sidechain with the uncompressed kick as trigger (where the bass overlaps the kick)

both come together on the master with no further compression. (or light masterbus compression)

Do you guys only use subbass in an offbeat pattern (so not copying the running bassline?)
Are you putting a delay on the high bassline?
reverb on the low?

What is it that makes this combo work magically together?
I understand the theory but for some reason I can't seem to get it 100% right.

quote:

Originally posted by Raphie bump What kind of subbass do you guys use? I just tend to grab a Sinewave bass patch from my Virus, which seems to blend in nicely with higher basslines. However I do struggle to get the whole thing "running and thumping" So this is what i do: Have a kickdrum i am happy with uncompressed @ -8db Have a "high" sawbass in a "running" pattern Have the same pattern 1 octave lower with a sinebass put both basses together on a subgroup which I sidechain with the uncompressed kick as trigger (where the bass overlaps the kick) both come together on the master with no further compression. (or light masterbus compression) Do you guys only use subbass in an offbeat pattern (so not copying the running bassline?) Are you putting a delay on the high bassline? reverb on the low? What is it that makes this combo work magically together? I understand the theory but for some reason I can't seem to get it 100% right.

Make music man, not recepies... use your ears and sit and think a lot about what you want from the track and the sound and than implement it...

i don't use sub-bass my basses are low enough as i like em, reverb on a bass is a trickey thing i dont use, i dont find loosing "control" over my bass that exciting really , I'm reducing my room effects to make my music clearer, i like the sound of a track humble with minor room effects which gives it a very clear and not "smeared" sound.

and it all comes down to what you want to achieve really, if youll put up a sample i can help you imitate it but i don't know how much it'll help you in your creative process of creating a unique and interesting bassline.

I am able to create basslines i am happy with, i am merely trying the technique which does not come to as easy results as some describe. What I am looking for is to find what makes that pushing effect you'll find from example in basslines from Paul Miller and Simon Patterson.
It seems to be a combo of effects and compression that makes the whole thing fly. I am not far off with the patterns (midi wise) i just not seem to be able to glue it together audiowise. This is not a general mastering question as i know how to finish tracks, i am happy with. Just interested in the technique.

quote:

Originally posted by Raphie I am able to create basslines i am happy with, i am merely trying the technique which does not come to as easy results as some describe. What I am looking for is to find what makes that pushing effect you'll find from example in basslines from Paul Miller and Simon Patterson. It seems to be a combo of effects and compression that makes the whole thing fly. I am not far off with the patterns (midi wise) i just not seem to be able to glue it together audiowise. This is not a general mastering question as i know how to finish tracks, i am happy with. Just interested in the technique.

Probably some compression, side chaining and equing are involved try it out... i dont know exactly what you mean but it seems like every bassline nowdays make use of these effects.

as im using reason 4.0 with thor it is very simple to add a third osc in a synth patch which i usualy do know, 1oct lower with sin or triangle waveform. but then i need to look more at sidechaining and eqing too caus these baselines are very often crashing with my kicks.

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