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How to make a track sound "real" and not amateurish

Well i have seen a lot of posts about Djing, but i hope i can ask sthin about producing in this section as well.

I am facing some problems(I use ableton and i guess normal plug in vst�s) especially at finishing the track.

It has occurred quite a few times already that when i come to the point introducing the BASS to the BEAT that some how the beat becomes "weak", as if the bass "eats" it. I dont know how to fix this, i tried putting the volume of the beat track up, but it doesnt change anything..Im guessing it might have something to do with frequency cancellation or some thing(s been a while since i had Physics). How can i fix this, some how giving the beat more power, or changing the bass/beat so that this doesnt happen?

The second Thing has to do with how to make the point at where melo bass and everything is together sound better and more harmonic. Is there some theory ond maybe using the Eqs, if so, how can you do that.

Maybe it has some thing to do with "a Compressor" (whatever that is), or
"mastering" (..huh?) the track?


I know this is a lot to ask in one post and at one time so I im not expecting a really detailed answer, but if you could point me into the right direction i would be greatful

thanks!!

you shouldve posted this in Production Studio.

but anyway, you have a few ways to go about this.

1. Sidechain a compressor or volume automation on your bassline that is triggered by the kick
-compresses or lowers the volume of the bassline when the kick hits so the bass clears out of the way of the kick.
this is probably the most used and recommended technique because it allows the bassline to retain the low frequencies when the kick isnt active.

2. EQ
-eq either the kick or the bass to shelve off the frequencies that conflict
with this you run the risk of losing some power or dynamics in your bassline if what you eqed out was essential to its sound

3. Restructure your bassline/Change the sounds you used
self-explanatory.

You need to post this in the production forum.

However, for you problem, learn to EQ. Basically, the kick will use certain frequencies, and the base others. However, they will use of the same frequencies, and you job is to identify precisely which they are, and whom of them gets the better of that frequency.

It's sound-engineering.

You need moar analog.

Experience, experience, experience.

Practice.

There are no magic tricks.

It helps a lot to have some great sounding loops from your favourite songs set up in your sequencer, so you can flip between your song and the songs you're referencing against, as you're working on your kick and bass loop. Most trance songs have sections where it's just kick, basses and percussive elements. You'll learn a lot by flipping back and forth, and listening to exactly how your kick sounds different, or your bass.

Sure, every trance song sounds slightly different, but there's an overall sonic ballpark that sounds right for the style. Producing can provide some major frustration for the first while, but stick with it, keep changing your approach and you'll get there.

Alright thanks alot! I will look into this sound engeneering since obviosly this is what im totally lacking at the moment(and im guessing once i figured that out, making sounds from scratch should be easier as well).
I�m gonna google this, but if anybody has some links to tutorials or anything about EQing and stuff, much apreciated.


Sorry for posting this here, i thought the Production Studio was only for posting loops and samples, not gonna happen again.

PD: hey somebody moved this to Production studio!!haha i just realized now!!!!excellent

You need more cowbell.

I'm wondering on the topic of having bassline at the same time as beat:

Would it be a good idea to perhaps have it so only the bass (if I understood it was the main conflicting frequency, but maybe also mids if thats more the main frequency range of the kick) of the bassline is reduced in volume rather then the whole thing?

why dont you try cutting the lows out of everything except the bass and kick. also on the master channel cut around 250-350, might clear some mud out of the mix. practice with eq and compression. you dont necessarily have to sidechain the bass to make it clear.


@darkarbiter
depending on how you want it, you can cut some of the lows out of the kick or out of the bassline. try both and see which sounds better (with the lows id go between 80 and 150hz or so for the eq). also try standing back like 5-10 feet from your speakers. since the lower freq waves take longer for 1 cycle, you can possibly hear mud in the bassline at 10 feet and not right in front of the computer.

quote:

Originally posted by hadi ****** why dont you try cutting the lows out of everything except the bass and kick. also on the master channel cut around 250-350, might clear some mud out of the mix. practice with eq and compression. you dont necessarily have to sidechain the bass to make it clear.

if i understand correctly eq and Compression is the same thing?? If not where is the difference??->Mastering is a totally different thing i presume.. (the only synth i got is Z3ta+, in the FX site is an EQ thingie)Is one suposed to EQ always in the synth or does ableton for example have something like that as well ?

The hihat�s and etc.seem not to ahve a problem with anything, so the only probl. is the kick

quote:

Originally posted by Zomg if i understand correctly eq and Compression is the same thing?? (the only synth i got is Z3ta+, in the FX site is an EQ thingie)Is one suposed to EQ always in the synth or does ableton for example have something like that as well ?

eq and compression is not the same (i guess one could argue that though)

a compressor takes the dynamics out of a track, for example, if you have a synth with a bunch of different amplitude levels, you compress it. the compressor has a threshold and when the signal breaks the threshold, like -15db, it starts to turn the volume down. you use attack and release to make it smooth and make up gain to make up for what you lost and the perceived loudest is louder, although the actual peak is not.

eq you can cut and add frequencies as you wish at whatever bandwidth you like.

i have never used ableton, but it comes with a compressor.

From an earlier post:

All a compressor does is turn down the volume when the signal going into it goes above the threshold. That's it. How fast it turns it down, how much it turns it down, and how quickly it turns the volume back up when the signal drops back below the threshold, all depend on the settings you use, but the only thing a compressor can truly be said to be doing is turning the volume down.

As a result of turning down the level during the loud parts and letting the quiet parts go through unchanged, the overall dynamic range of the instrument or piece of audio is reduced - it will be at a more consistent level.

Once the dynamic range has been reduced to a satisfactory level, the overall volume of the instrument/ piece of audio can be raised - thus the end effect of the compressor is a louder average signal. This is usually done to get an instrument sitting prominently and loudly in a mix.


EQs are quite different - they will boost or cut specific frequencies, regardless of the input level (in general - there are some which operate like compressors, but affecting only a specific frequency). But yes, overall EQs are used to improve/ shape sounds, readjust their frequency balance, all that stuff.

Good post.

EQing for Dummies

Audio Frequency Ranges

Side-Chaining Tutorial

quote:

Originally posted by aquila

LOL!!!

I was asking questions like this but its hard mate everyone will try to help but also people will take the piss. How to make a tne some pro cant really be answered in here i dont think as there are so many ways and so many techniques. Above all of that it then comes down to personal preference some people hate over compressed sounds they say it wrecks the dynamic range. Tell that to a swedish house producer and he will laugh in your face. Overall I found that if your having to compress the shit out of things or eq them apart or do all of these things then you could have a problem with your mixing or indeed the samples/sounds you use.

Before i learned to mix a tune and to try to ick different enough sounds and position them right in eq and pan. I was using lots of compressors and still moaning my mixes sounded shit. Since i focused on miing (and went to university to study production) i rarely use them apart from to tighten freqs together for instance as multiband on a drum track. Turn everything down to zero in your song start with kick bring it up so its at the front of your mix then bring other things up relative. try panning leads pads etc a little to the left and right as you do this more freq space will ber available in opposite speaker etc. EQ a kick so its 150-200hz heavy and roll of low freqs, a sub bass so its 60hz heavy roll of high freqs it makes simple sense if you think.

But overall no amount of compressors that you possibly dont understand no offense or clever programs will make a bad conflicing mix bright and sparkly

Hope it helps pm me if you want any more

quote:

Originally posted by derail EQs are quite different - they will boost or cut specific frequencies, regardless of the input level (in general - there are some which operate like compressors, but affecting only a specific frequency). But yes, overall EQs are used to improve/ shape sounds, readjust their frequency balance, all that stuff.

In addition to the above post, it's better to cut only on a EQ. Getting more out of the sound than it really is (raising EQ) is not good and can lead to unwanted sounds. If i.e. the clarity of the sound isn't good enough, don't boost the EQ but look into the sound itself, try to change it at the source (in The Netherlands we have a saying which applies here: "It's better to prevent than to cure").

EQ is also usefull to prevent phase cancellations. If i.e. two sounds are in the same frequency range, it's possible that on sound phases out the other.

EQ is pretty hard to do. You are fastly inclined to overuse EQ. But remember this as a fistrule; if you have to EQ to much, the problem lays in the original sound.

quote:

Originally posted by Theran In addition to the above post, it's better to cut only on a EQ. Getting more out of the sound than it really is (raising EQ) is not good and can lead to unwanted sounds. If i.e. the clarity of the sound isn't good enough, don't boost the EQ but look into the sound itself, try to change it at the source (in The Netherlands we have a saying which applies here: "It's better to prevent than to cure"). EQ is also usefull to prevent phase cancellations. If i.e. two sounds are in the same frequency range, it's possible that on sound phases out the other. EQ is pretty hard to do. You are fastly inclined to overuse EQ. But remember this as a fistrule; if you have to EQ to much, the problem lays in the original sound.

I boost sound all the time when i EQ.

quote:

Originally posted by Theran In addition to the above post, it's better to cut only on a EQ. Getting more out of the sound than it really is (raising EQ) is not good and can lead to unwanted sounds. If i.e. the clarity of the sound isn't good enough, don't boost the EQ but look into the sound itself, try to change it at the source (in The Netherlands we have a saying which applies here: "It's better to prevent than to cure"). EQ is also usefull to prevent phase cancellations. If i.e. two sounds are in the same frequency range, it's possible that on sound phases out the other. EQ is pretty hard to do. You are fastly inclined to overuse EQ. But remember this as a fistrule; if you have to EQ to much, the problem lays in the original sound.

I boost sound all the time when i EQ. But it is more to change the sound. But like you are saying to add clarity look at the sound itself.

From the mixing engineer's handbook: cut to make things sound better, boost to make things sound different.

Well thanx alot

Im gonna look into the tutorials, and everything you said, you guys are great!!

I couldn try a lot untill now, but i looked into the "bass panning" so the beat would become "free" at some point of the panning: works great!! thank you for that!!

READ YOUR ENTIRE MANUAL AND MASTER YOUR DAW.

This is so important. Read, read, reread, and even memorize what every single little aspect of your DAW is for and what it does. If you have a creative spark the last thing you want is to be wondering "shit I'm not sure how to do this".
Plus it helps you realize you're true limits.

More than anything professional music is the work of masterminds. I don't think its that they have 5 billion years of experience, they know what sounds go together, what sounds don't, what sound is too much, and what sound is too little.

People say its "sound engineering" but I say pro's more or less just have a creative part of their brain reserved for music that most people don't have.

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