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Coming to America!

Welcome Mr. Wilders, welcome.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/185216?from=rss

Re: Coming to America!

quote:

Originally posted by BARS-N-STARS Welcome Mr. Wilders, welcome. http://www.newsweek.com/id/185216?from=rss

if the president of iran was given a forum (even though i think the president of columbia was inappropriate in how he handled the opening remarks about the iranian president) at one of the world's most prestigious universities (columbia), i see no reason why this goof shouldn't be allowed to speak his mind in the US. I have no problem with this.

Yes! I have an extra bedroom at my place. Come to Charlotte, Geert!

Maybe if we stop fucking with the Muslim in their lands, they'd stop fucking with us.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Maybe if we stop fucking with the Muslim in their lands, they'd stop fucking with us.

not surprisingly krypton diverted the conversation.

dude coming to the US has little to do with westerners 'fucking' with muslims in the 'holy land'

I'd have no problem with him being let in the UK, cos he's got a hell of a lot more attention and publicity because of it, and it's not like we don't already have our own fascists and racists saying similar things. I don't think he should be able to speak that kind of crap in the House of Lords tho (who honestly would think that a one eyed hook monster should be allowed to preach Islamic extremism in the House of Lords in the principle of fairness?!)

I suppose attending university campuses to give speeches isn't that much of a problem (as someone said, if the President of Iran can do it why not other extremists?) - however, there will be riots and he might not make it out without getting a few bruises for his troubles!

His message is still bullshit tho, but I think letting him speak without all this fuss will let him join the list of other fascists in modern times that have their say and hopefully fade away into obscurity...

Most people are drawn to the controversy, not the content. This guy is like the Tom Tancredo of Europe.

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley and it's not like we don't already have our own fascists and racists saying similar things.

Thats exactly what he said you would say too. How ironic. We have the same issue here in America with people just like you. Dont call illegal aliens "Mexicans". Thats racist......... What the hell are they then?

quote:

Originally posted by BARS-N-STARS Thats exactly what he said you would say too. How ironic. We have the same issue here in America with people just like you. Dont call illegal aliens "Mexicans". Thats racist......... What the hell are they then?

Eh? Who said I'd say what?!

quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 not surprisingly krypton diverted the conversation. dude coming to the US has little to do with westerners 'fucking' with muslims in the 'holy land'

His thesis is Muslims are just inherently violent people. This crap always, ALWAYS goes back to why Muslims generally are anti-western. Why do they fight? Why would you fight? Were our American patriots terrorists for fighting Great Britain? Why are Muslims fighting Western domination of their countries any different? Perhaps if America didn't stick its nose in every fucking thing going on around the world, especially the Middle East, perhaps 9/11 wouldn't have happened....This Wilders guy is a fucking idiot.

quote:

He believes that all Muslim immigration to the Netherlands should be halted and all settled immigrants should be paid to leave.[3] Referring to the increased population of Muslims in the Netherlands, he has said that:

He's just basing his ideology on a bunch of Immigrants living in Netherlands? (off-topic but I was born in Amsterdam, I was one of those immigrants).

I truly respect UK for banning this racist, who incites nothing but violence.

This is what I find real hypocritical.

When there is talk of some radical Muslim guy coming to USA, the media gets into a frenzy and says he should be put in prison for his views of hate, or that if your caught with any literature written by the likes of Al-Q you'll be put in prison. But when its the other way round, when it comes to bashing Muslims well that's freedom of speech.

Its good the British Government banned this Neo-Nazi with a twist, instead of being an extremist anti-semitic he's an extremist anti-Muslim, into the country to stir up tensions and just create problems when there is so much effort to create more inter-faith harmony.

This is like somebody using the Israeli aggression in Palestine, then finding and distorting some passages from the Torah and then claiming, Jews do this because its their nature, their religion teaches them to kill poor Muslim kids and drink christian childrens blood.

I end this with, do you guys think he should be attacking the specific Muslim extremist groups or Islam as a whole?

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Originally posted by haqq Its good the British Government banned this Neo-Nazi with a twist, instead of being an extremist anti-semitic he's an extremist anti-Muslim, into the country to stir up tensions and just create problems when there is so much effort to create more inter-faith harmony.

You are right. There is enough tension in the UK. You can thank the Muslims for that. I feel its time for the UK to stop trying to be politicaly correct. I wouldnt have a problem with Muslims moving there but they should leave their laws where you left them. Invading someones culture like that is exactly what he has stated about the Quran. Take over and domination. Its ok for Muslims to be this way towards the UK but it isnt ok for Israel to take its stance in the Middle East. Typical Muslim double standard. Just like Dubai. Quran in one hand and a casino in the other. I cant wait to see how they handle the non smoking ban for Muslims in Malaysia. I do know Asians in countries like that LOVE their cancer sticks.

quote:

Originally posted by haqq Its good the British Government banned this Neo-Nazi with a twist, instead of being an extremist anti-semitic he's an extremist anti-Muslim, into the country to stir up tensions and just create problems when there is so much effort to create more inter-faith harmony.

of all the people in the world to call somone a neonazi...

anyways Haqq, you speak of people misenterpreting the words of god that commit attrocious acts. I think there are many moderate muslims, but no moderate Islam. Those who are moderate are either conciously rejecting a shitload of material(many medina suras and supplementary hadiths), or are unaware of whats going on in the structure and edicts of the religion. tbh, the vast majority of people i know have their own interpretation of islam, which is ok if it helps them live a better life while not hurting others, but they should able to say this is not true islam. Its almost like they are afraid to admit this fact to themselves...

half of these politicians that go home at night know this, no one can come out and say this without being tarnished. Instead they use cliche plugs like"Islam is a religion of peace" and "islam accepts other beliefs", "these terrorists are not muslims!"...I am of the school that many of these jihadists are on the right track in accordance with islam in its purest form. martryrdom is a 100 percent guarantee to paradise, whereas living your life, praying all the time, and banging only your wife, is not.

i think that as a politian, you should really think twice about going into these sensitive areas if you are making a film. maybe if he was a shadow producer he could have gotten away with it. I honestly think he may have indeed wanted a stirrup like this, making him the new age Salman Rushdie or something.


Geert Wilders just fell into the scapegoat role at the right place at the right time-there are much better docs that portray these points in a less offensive manner.

quote:

Originally posted by BARS-N-STARS You are right. There is enough tension in the UK. You can thank the Muslims for that. I feel its time for the UK to stop trying to be politicaly correct. I wouldnt have a problem with Muslims moving there but they should leave their laws where you left them. Invading someones culture like that is exactly what he has stated about the Quran. Take over and domination. Its ok for Muslims to be this way towards the UK but it isnt ok for Israel to take its stance in the Middle East. Typical Muslim double standard. Just like Dubai. Quran in one hand and a casino in the other. I cant wait to see how they handle the non smoking ban for Muslims in Malaysia. I do know Asians in countries like that LOVE their cancer sticks.

Yeah so lets talk from your idealism. Blacks are violent so what we should generalize the whole population and round them up and boat them back to Africa? I can't believe people still think like this nonsense.

You want to hear double standards?
- You invaded our country (not the other way around)
- You strip us from our cultures

So when we seek refuge from your violent acts to a peaceful country in the western side of the world we should be rejected?

That is like the UK saying "hey Indians leave our country" lets go back in history and see who was in whose country first stripping them of their cultures.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Damerchi of all the people in the world to call somone a neonazi...

Ouch! haha

quote:

I am of the school that many of these jihadists are on the right track in accordance with islam in its purest form. martryrdom is a 100 percent guarantee to paradise, whereas living your life, praying all the time, and banging only your wife, is not.

Not entirely true.

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "Five are regarded as martyrs: They are those who die because of plague, abdominal disease, drowning or a falling building etc., and the martyrs in Allah's Cause."

Martyrdom is not just blowing yourself up. Additionally...

You cannot take a single verse translation and twist it to mean that Quran asks for killing.

If your thoughts are considered right then what would you say about Pope Urban's Crusades, does Christianity call foe elimination of MUSLIMS. He had also used Bible for the purpose.

At some places in Quran, killing and war, Jihad is discussed for those, who persecuted Muslims for years and years, and these verses were specific for those, who come to you to kill, or have killed Muslims etc. and referring to maintain justice and just society. Since, you have not quoted the verses, I am referring in general the verse most commonly misunderstood and quoted.

When Prophet Mohammad(PBUH) conquered Mecca, he forgave all non Muslims even those who had killed his close associates and relatives, some in a barbaric fashion, Refer any history book of your choice.

Caliph Umar on the request of Jews for religious persecution liberated the present day site of Israel and did not kill a single Christian or Jew and mediated a Treaty between Christian and Jews enabling them to pray on their Holy Sites Muslims being In charge and watching that the treaty is honored.

People with limited exposure, busy life style to meet ends needs, if get an opportunity to ponder and study Islam, they will find that the way to salvation in Islam is good deeds and having abundance of them, and just like every religion, physical war or Jihad has defined meanin, rules of engagement and is only to eliminate persecution and human agony against the forces of evil and participating in that kind of war is permissible and is source of rewards and pleasure of Almighty, but to kill innocent people in Islam is the gravest sin considered unforgivable irrespective of faith. human life is considered sacred in Islam.

quote:

Originally posted by haqq You want to hear double standards? - You invaded our country (not the other way around) - You strip us from our cultures

You are right. I wish America would mind its business. Next time a tsunami flattens a 3rd world country again I say screw em. Not our problem. You see I am a Nationalist. I respect where I live and its surroundings. I dont litter the streets of America with violence and hate because of whats happening back in Serbia.
What cultures are we stripping you of? Does it bother you that little girls can get an Education now. Beating your wife is criminalized. That Iraqis can vote. Maybe some day they can add freedom of religon . I can go on and on.
Only reason there are so many Muslims is because they dont have a choice. Geert Wilders is right. We need to start doing something about it because civilized Muslims are too scared to.

quote:

Originally posted by BARS-N-STARS You are right. I wish America would mind its business. Next time a tsunami flattens a 3rd world country again I say screw em. Not our problem. You see I am a Nationalist. I respect where I live and its surroundings. I dont litter the streets of America with violence and hate because of whats happening back in Serbia. What cultures are we stripping you of? Does it bother you that little girls can get an Education now. Beating your wife is criminalized. That Iraqis can vote. Maybe some day they can add freedom of religon . I can go on and on. Only reason there are so many Muslims is because they dont have a choice. Geert Wilders is right. We need to start doing something about it because civilized Muslims are too scared to.

Are you bothered by millions of Iraqis made refugees and the hundreds of thousands DEAD?

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Are you bothered by millions of Iraqis made refugees and the hundreds of thousands DEAD?

Whats the point of even asking that?

quote:

Originally posted by haqq Wow... I cried a little. But in all seriousness, I agree with a lot of this article. My grandfather whom I talk to that currently lives in Afghanistan, after I told him the "soldiers need to leave our country!" "Son... son... Believe it or not without these soldiers in our land, there would be a lot of bloodshed and chaos. Turn off the TV, throw away that newspaper and get information from a primary source. I've been living here since the soviets were trying to invade till the Taliban corruption. I've seen it all, and all I can say is... thank you God and thank you brave Soldiers." (paraphrased) After these words I had an epiphany(sp?). May God grant all the brave Soldiers the highest of heavens.

Talk about a double standard.

quote:

Originally posted by BARS-N-STARS Whats the point of even asking that? Does it bother you that little girls can get an Education now. Beating your wife is criminalized. That Iraqis can vote. Maybe some day they can add freedom of religon . I can go on and on.

Who cares if Iraqis can vote if it cost hundreds of thousands dead and millions of refugees? To hell with democracy if that's what it costs. Especially forced democracy.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Who cares if Iraqis can vote if it cost hundreds of thousands dead and millions of refugees? To hell with democracy if that's what it costs. Especially forced democracy.

Like I said America should mind its own business. But then again maybe should have been born a woman in that country.

Ill give my life for my kids Democracy any day.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Who cares if Iraqis can vote if it cost hundreds of thousands dead and millions of refugees? To hell with democracy if that's what it costs. Especially forced democracy.

Besides. Explain to me how you compare those numbers of deaths to voting? Try taking a look at the real problem. Saddam Hussein and what he has done. I gotta hear you make an excuse for this guy.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Who cares if Iraqis can vote if it cost hundreds of thousands dead and millions of refugees? To hell with democracy if that's what it costs. Especially forced democracy.

that has always been a cost of acquiring such rights. if humans weren't willing to sacrifice their own lives for something greater then most of the world would still be rule by kings or dictators. surely, most people would agree that the alternative (a very small percentage of the population being killed) is much better.

Kings and dictators look out for number one, and a life in poverty or servitude under those rulers isn't necessarily better than death. I would even be willing to say that if many people didn't sacrifice their lives in the wars and struggles during the 1800-1900s so the western world was substantially democractic, then our world would be significantly different (technologically, medically, etc...). Being democractic allowed capitalism to flourish, which resulted in vast technological advances. Without this political change, I suspect that a much larger percentage of the world's population would be living in poverty, and human health would be in far worse shape than it is today.

it's easy for someone in our position to say life is better than death, but that's because we don't live in despair. You always justify muslim terrorists for this same reason, but erradicating dictatorships is also a method of attacking poverty. I'm not saying we should have fought in iraq (because i was absolutely against the war), but look at the bigger picture.

quote:

Originally posted by BARS-N-STARS Besides. Explain to me how you compare those numbers of deaths to voting? Try taking a look at the real problem. Saddam Hussein and what he has done. I gotta hear you make an excuse for this guy.

Oh it'll be the same ole excuse they always use, 'Iraq was fine when he was in power...now more f*cked than before...'

quote:

Originally posted by BARS-N-STARS Like I said America should mind its own business. But then again maybe should have been born a woman in that country. Ill give my life for my kids Democracy any day.

Are Iraq's kids your kids? No.

quote:

Besides. Explain to me how you compare those numbers of deaths to voting? Try taking a look at the real problem. Saddam Hussein and what he has done. I gotta hear you make an excuse for this guy.

I don't know, you seem to justify the massive suffering in the country by saying, "oh, at least they can vote." If it were me, and I lost half my family to some bombings, kidnapping, or refugee status, I'd say to hell with voting! I'v taken a clear look at it. Fuck Saddam. Fuck Bush. Pay attention to the average folk. I guess 100,000 dead Iraqis means nothing to you, I understand...

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