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Question about torrented samples..

I don't torrent all my samples, but I've been noticing something and would just like to get peoples opinions on it.

All my VEC packs were torrented, but I have other sample packs that I've paid for as well. (a lot from vipzone cause I like their samples a lot better - just a preference) I've been noticing recently listening to my tracks, that when I use torrented sample loops, they sound like shit in the final mix.

But if I construct a loop from samples that weren't torrented, they do seem to be a lot cleaner in the end product. I know some people hate people who torrent, and I know other people don't care and do it themself. But I really ask that you answer w/out that bias involved (telling me the quality is worse just cause you don't like people who torrent).

But it really seems like torrented samples just do not hold up in a final mixdown. Am I wrong? Is it the quality you're getting as bought samples, or am I right? Cause I'll never torrent another sample pack again. I've noticed the VEC sample loops specifically always sound like they're missing a degree of clarity.

Oh and one thing, I really do notice this a lot more in loops then individual samples, so I'm not sure if this is a loops vs sample issue or a torrent vs purchases issue.

Yeah samples loose a lot of quality from being torrented, going through the sharing processes etc.. so yeah you should definitely buy the samples to make sure you have the optimal quality.

lol that's jokes

Samples are samples. It doesn't matter if you buy it or torrent it. You just need to check the quality of the samples. And the ones running on the net are originals that were uploaded. So technically, they are exactly the same.

The only reason you're hearing a difference is psychological. Either people told you this story or you just 'suppose' that because it's torrented it sounds worse. That's why psychologically you're hearing a difference when there isn't any.

I agree with SGL.

However if you are talking about loop quality it could pertain to a couple things.

#1) loops tend to be precompressed (epsecially from VEC) and also sometimes have effects on them already.

#2) the algorithm used by the DAW to warp loops to match tempo could also affect the quality.

Honestly, civilization as we know it is fucked.

quote:

But if I construct a loop from samples that weren't torrented, they do seem to be a lot cleaner in the end product.

Re: Question about torrented samples..

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox I don't torrent all my samples, but I've been noticing something and would just like to get peoples opinions on it. All my VEC packs were torrented, but I have other sample packs that I've paid for as well. (a lot from vipzone cause I like their samples a lot better - just a preference) I've been noticing recently listening to my tracks, that when I use torrented sample loops, they sound like shit in the final mix. But if I construct a loop from samples that weren't torrented, they do seem to be a lot cleaner in the end product. I know some people hate people who torrent, and I know other people don't care and do it themself. But I really ask that you answer w/out that bias involved (telling me the quality is worse just cause you don't like people who torrent). But it really seems like torrented samples just do not hold up in a final mixdown. Am I wrong? Is it the quality you're getting as bought samples, or am I right? Cause I'll never torrent another sample pack again. I've noticed the VEC sample loops specifically always sound like they're missing a degree of clarity. Oh and one thing, I really do notice this a lot more in loops then individual samples, so I'm not sure if this is a loops vs sample issue or a torrent vs purchases issue.

I am not a perfect saint, but I've never came across that problem, although most of my samples I have paid for because they can't be torrented (too rare) - I think the only "illegal" pack I have is the SOR top loops pack. I personally HATE the VEC packs. Over compressed, over used, and half of them are stolen. (So don't feel bad for torrenting their garbage)

It's possible that a big company like Vengeance is purposefully torrenting degraded quality samples so they spread and people think they have the real deal and they don't. I did this with my labels first release (I just inserted a huge, speaker blowing sound at 1 minute) and it seemed to boost my sales quite a bit.

Re: Re: Question about torrented samples..

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Originally posted by DjStephenWiley It's possible that a big company like Vengeance is purposefully torrenting degraded quality samples so they spread and people think they have the real deal and they don't.

They dont do that, would give the samples a bad reputation if they did.

Re: Re: Re: Question about torrented samples..

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Originally posted by Subtle They dont do that, would give the samples a bad reputation if they did.

That's debatable. I could see a company not caring what torrenters of their product think. Yes, their negative comments will spread to others, but if the samples are degraded just enough to where only professionals can hear it, and they cause problems in mix downs, then they're convincing people their legit, and at the same time likely screwing up their mix downs which would be a great feat for a product like that. It would be hard though to make samples sound "good" and then have them sound bad in a mix. I'm not an engineer so I wouldn't know where to begin or how they could that, but perhaps artifacts?

Samples can not be degraded in the files sharing process. Unless of course the person who upoads them has done so on purpose.

What you are hearing is probably the overcompression and crappy quality of the vengeance samples. They are ripped from songs and then probably compressed again. Some of their loops also sound like low res mp3 rips.

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Originally posted by xphonix Samples can not be degraded in the files sharing process. Unless of course the person who upoads them has done so on purpose. What you are hearing is probably the overcompression and crappy quality of the vengeance samples. They are ripped from songs and then probably compressed again. Some of their loops also sound like low res mp3 rips.

yea - they are incredibly bad in my opinion. There are so many better sample CDs and packs out there but you can't be lazy, you have to look for them (and you can't torrent most of them either because they're not popular) - The VEC packs are not popular because they sound good, I can assure you that. They're popular for the wrong reasons.

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Originally posted by Subtle Yeah samples loose a lot of quality from being torrented, going through the sharing processes etc.. so yeah you should definitely buy the samples to make sure you have the optimal quality.

LMAO

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Originally posted by DjStephenWiley yea - they are incredibly bad in my opinion. There are so many better sample CDs and packs out there but you can't be lazy, you have to look for them (and you can't torrent most of them either because they're not popular) - The VEC packs are not popular because they sound good, I can assure you that. They're popular for the wrong reasons.

Because everyone wants to sound like their favorite producers, who write overcompressed music and use the Vengeance samples?

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Because everyone wants to sound like their favorite producers, who write overcompressed music and use the Vengeance samples?

That too, but the fact that they can be had with ease is a big factor too.

For those out there who do not buy or use sample packs, and rely on traditional VEC packs and Thomas Penton (The Penton is good, but it's really not much better than average) I would strongly advise you to check out some sample packs. There are a low of new packs being put out that have insanely good sound quality. The first that comes to mind is Deadmau5's XFER CD (Although that's only a few mouse clicks away for free too)

I recommend checking out the following:
Electrofied
Electro House Progressions
Swen Weber - Bass Infarct
Deadmau5 - XFER (Please torrent this. This guy is a clown)
Electronic Dance Tools

I am not interested at all in producing electro house. Would you still recommend those "electro" samples?

I think Vengeance is the best collection of samples out there, especially for drums.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I am not interested at all in producing electro house. Would you still recommend those "electro" samples?

yes. i know this sounds dumb, but ignore the names. Go listen to the samples on the websites or send me a PM or AOL AIM and I'll send you some of the trancy and housey stuff in the sample packs.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Question about torrented samples..

quote:

Originally posted by DjStephenWiley That's debatable. I could see a company not caring what torrenters of their product think. Yes, their negative comments will spread to others, but if the samples are degraded just enough to where only professionals can hear it, and they cause problems in mix downs, then they're convincing people their legit, and at the same time likely screwing up their mix downs which would be a great feat for a product like that. It would be hard though to make samples sound "good" and then have them sound bad in a mix. I'm not an engineer so I wouldn't know where to begin or how they could that, but perhaps artifacts?

If a company wanted to make their stuff unusable but still sound good, they could invert the phase of the low end and pan the low end to cancel each other out in mono. It's not fullproof, but not everyone would figure it out.

The standard approach to selling a synth is to make each patch sound absolutely huge by drenching it in effects and in VEC the situation is somewhat similar in that the kicks they sample are usually already processed.

i own one sample pack witch was free and taken from a roland drum machine.And i make all my own shit with is the best way.

so many people rely on sample packs and often wonder why thier mix down is shit.
by making and rendering all key sounds parts made whilst going along makes for more orignal work and better controll over the tracks made.

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Originally posted by owien so many people rely on sample packs and often wonder why thier mix down is shit.

The reason a mixdown is shit is due to experience.

You could also say, "so many producers use Vengeance sample packs and don't wonder at all why their music sounds absolutely fantastic".

There are heaps of high quality sample packs out there, and the Vengeance stuff isn't terrible, in my experience. I hear the samples in a lot of today's best sounding songs.

No-one's ever going to make a sample pack which every single person is happy with. A lot of top producers use Vengeance and are totally happy with it. Do people really think "well, all these great producers creating all those fantastic sounding songs, they don't know a good sample from a bad sample. They aren't aware they're using utterly crap samples to make that incredible music"?

Everyone's going to have their own preferences. I use a variety of sample packs, including Vengeance. I've come across sample packs which do absolutely nothing for me, but I'm happy that they work brilliantly for other people in their songs. I don't understand why someone would feel the need to say "your samples suck!!! ...oh, your music sounds great, by the way...but your samples suck!!!"

quote:

Originally posted by DjStephenWiley Deadmau5 - XFER (Please torrent this. This guy is a clown)

That is a pretty ignorant comment.

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Originally posted by derail The reason a mixdown is shit is due to experience. You could also say, "so many producers use Vengeance sample packs and don't wonder at all why their music sounds absolutely fantastic". There are heaps of high quality sample packs out there, and the Vengeance stuff isn't terrible, in my experience. I hear the samples in a lot of today's best sounding songs. No-one's ever going to make a sample pack which every single person is happy with. A lot of top producers use Vengeance and are totally happy with it. Do people really think "well, all these great producers creating all those fantastic sounding songs, they don't know a good sample from a bad sample. They aren't aware they're using utterly crap samples to make that incredible music"? Everyone's going to have their own preferences. I use a variety of sample packs, including Vengeance. I've come across sample packs which do absolutely nothing for me, but I'm happy that they work brilliantly for other people in their songs. I don't understand why someone would feel the need to say "your samples suck!!! ...oh, your music sounds great, by the way...but your samples suck!!!"

true but my point was having all off your own work from scratch in the end will make for a much better track and in most cases the mix down is something much less to worry about.

it's just a case of personal prefrance i guess i have used sample packs in the past and when i do the track then becomes less personal less controllable and more not my own work.

i just think in the end it's much better thing building a track from scratch then diging into sample packs.

quote:

Originally posted by owien true but my point was having all off your own work from scratch in the end will make for a much better track and in most cases the mix down is something much less to worry about. it's just a case of personal prefrance i guess i have used sample packs in the past and when i do the track then becomes less personal less controllable and more not my own work. i just think in the end it's much better thing building a track from scratch then diging into sample packs.

To what degree though - do you record your own drum samples? If you do record your own, do you use equipment that a company built (such as Zildjian, Pearl, Tama etc) or do you make your own drums, to make sure they're your own work? Do you build your own microphone so the sample doesn't take on the characteristics of a given microphone by a given company?

Everyone has their own "line in the sand". It's up to each person to decide where that line is. There is no definitive right and wrong, only opinion based on personal experience.

Some people love sky diving, and rave about it, and tell anyone who cares to listen about how great it is and how other people should totally try it, otherwise they're missing out on this awesome experience. And some people may well take them up on their offer and love it. Some people may decide not to, and that's fine as well.

quote:

Originally posted by derail To what degree though - do you record your own drum samples? If you do record your own, do you use equipment that a company built (such as Zildjian, Pearl, Tama etc) or do you make your own drums, to make sure they're your own work? Do you build your own microphone so the sample doesn't take on the characteristics of a given microphone by a given company? Everyone has their own "line in the sand". It's up to each person to decide where that line is. There is no definitive right and wrong, only opinion based on personal experience. Some people love sky diving, and rave about it, and tell anyone who cares to listen about how great it is and how other people should totally try it, otherwise they're missing out on this awesome experience. And some people may well take them up on their offer and love it. Some people may decide not to, and that's fine as well.

when i say make my own i mean i dont use other peoples ie sample packs.the reason i say my way is best is because the end result is a hole lot better.

if i want to lay down percussion/drums lets say i make them simply because i want to work with untouched samples. i may use the inbuilt stuff and remove any changes untill its restored to a normal state.


this then gives me the choise of what is being made in the track and leads to much more controll and better placements of parts.

i'm not saying the same can be done with samples from sample packs just sitting there and find/slotting something untill it fits or eq and the use of shapes to make it all work.

its a matter of knowing i can make every thing i need and my work is not the same as everybody else.

As further proof for the strength of sampling, there have been quite a few famous songs that were simply sample based and every synth sound was a sample from VEC or what have you. I've noticed a lot of people rant and rave about how much gear they have and how much time they spend programming synths... but after i listen to the final product i am always amazed at how sub-par it truly is. I'm not going to name anyone here but i think the producers know who they are. At the end of the day you can use whatever you want but only the final product counts for anything. No one but the sound design geeks out there honestly care that you've spent x amount of time programming a certain sound. Sampling is an art form in an of itself. Laidback Luke, arguably one of the biggest names and trendsetters in the house scene, said it himself when people ask him how he makes his kicks and other samples; he said he just rips them straight out of a track he likes. Honestly, I'm just tired of this bullshit elitism, i don't care how much experience you have or how "correct" you are in what you do.

sorry /rant_over

All sample packs have usable sounds, take the samples you like and throw away the rest, eventually you will have loads of great samples that you know will work.

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