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-- Xone:92 - Just got one - I can't work out these filters.....
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Xone:92 - Just got one - I can't work out these filters.....

OK,

So I just got this thing home - and the filters don't work like I expect them to.

Let me summarise.

Leaving out the LFO and simply concentrating on the Frequency and Resonance pots.

When I have the High Pass filter selected, and ensuring that the VCF to fader is not enabled, everything works as I would expect, that is to say that the frequency pot at it's 30hz setting is DRY and at it's 20khz setting is WET. This makes it easy to use in a mix, meaning that going from wet to dry is simply a case of rotating the frequency port from right to left (or wet to dry) and by the time it's in it's 30hz position it is having no effect on the track.

My LPF and BPF filters do not work in the same way. That is to say even when they are rotated right round to the 30hz mark they still have an effect on the track. This makes it impossible to use them for fading in and out becuase there is no gradual way to switch them off.

Does this make sense to anyone - and is there something I am missing?

Cheers

Jarv

lol a LPF is a lowpass filter (freqs below your knob-pos passes through) so in order to have it with no effect it must be at 20kHz position or "WET" as u call it, i call it fully open. btw dont think dry/wet when it comes to filters beacuse the effect is always 100% "wet" or ON, but you cant hear it when its below 30Hz using HPF and above 15-20kHz using BPF beacuse they are then fully open/everything passes through. LPF works the other way around than the HPF (hi pass filter) it is fully "open" at knob-pos all the way to the right (20kHz). a BPF (band pass filter) can never be "dry" as it will only let freqs around the freq-pos pass, it might let more pass through with the resonance/Q-knob all the way to the left, i dont know, some filters works like that. These are general uderstanding of filters. Ive never tried the Xone so it might work otherwise but these explainations should aply. BPF has nothing to do on a dj mixer imo. And the BPF and LPF should have been two separate knobs.

Thanks - your explanation helps.

Anyone got any other pointers for me? I've had a little llok at the youtube vids available for filter demos - but not a lot is on there.

Any wow - the Xone92 forum on A&H's website - Pios forum puts it to shame!

Apart from changing the resonance from wild to mild and then using the filter in the way you described above with the HPF enabled and then using the same 'effect' with the resonance changed to wild I only use the LPF and HPF.

One little trick i'll throw in every now and again with the resonance set to wild. I'll have the LPF selected (Filter off though) and just on the drop of the bass i'll turn on the filter and go from left to right on the dry/wet knob.. Gives a nice little sound.

Apart from that i quite like having the resonance on half way or so and then using the filter to just cut out the low end of an out going track. I barely ever use the LFO, actually never really.

I also never assign the filter to the crossfader.

What do you think of the mixer in general?

Cheers Nelly - that's also helpful.

Yeah - still really getting used to it. A couple of things I do notice, when comparing against the DJM800 which is what I swapped it for:

1. The Xone's sound IS of a higher quality - can't really explain, but it's more pleasing to the ears.

2. The 800s finish is more durable than the Xone's. Both mixers are 3 years old, yet the Xone's finish has visibly deteriorated over time, whereas the 800s finish is laquered so hard it's not ever going to deteriorate.

Thats all I can say for now - I left my headphones at a mates and will have to wait until at least Wednesday to get them back before I can really use this little beauty - very frustrating!

I'm considering buying a replacement faceplate for it - just to give it a new feel - anyone have any experience in getting hold of one? I've emailed A&H in the UK and await a response.

I've just noticed the 'pop' that occurs when you engage or disengage the filters - it's widely discussed on the A&H forums, pretty disappointed with that - seems audible even when you activater it on the beat.

My 800 did it too - but not as badly.

Also I notice that I get a popping in time with the tempo tap flash button, although only in the headphones. Only noticeable when volume is really really low - but an imperfection none the less. Again it's been discussed on the A&H forum many times.

My verdict so far: the 92 is more of a purist's mixer, but I don't accept that the 92 is head and shoulders above the 800 - they are both great pieces of kit, and they both have flaws.

the best mixer would be without any efex at all. and have rotary faders.

quote:

Originally posted by Jarvmeister My verdict so far: the 92 is more of a purist's mixer, but I don't accept that the 92 is head and shoulders above the 800 - they are both great pieces of kit, and they both have flaws.

I would say that this is a pretty fair assesment of the situation.

With regards to the pop, engage the filter with the resonance on mild is it sounds like you are getting a rez pop.

With regards to what you can do with the filters, kind of depends on what you use, but if you have loopability i.e. either through CDJs or virtual DJing tools etc.

I will sometimes loop a section in a track and than filter out all the high frequencies to give the impression of it being a break down of sorts and then mix in a vocal over the top (In key) or even sometimes a looped melody from another track where I have filtered out the bottom end, then start to work on building tension, perhaps finsih the segment with a loop rinse and then pump back into the previous track or a new one depending on what I feel fits.

When I work in clubs I come across the 600 or 800 8 times out of 10 and an A&H mixer is a bit of a rariety.

I still use a Xone 464 at home. It's huge but I love it to bits.

Cheers
Nem

quote:

Originally posted by palm BPF has nothing to do on a dj mixer imo.

I think the initial idea was to use this to try to isolate vocals or instrumental parts that you want to mix in to a track. But that said, it's not something I couldn't do with with ordinary EQ.

Cheers
Nem

does anyone else notice how palm is always the first to comment on gear, when he says he has not mixed since the beginning of the decade, nor does he actually own any gear?

just saying googleman.

plz shut up

quote:

Originally posted by lenazi shut up

what? im actualy helping him here... im probably twice your age and has some experience eventhough i dont got any dj gear right now as i live in 50m2. my speakers takes the whole place.

goa gill?

quote:

Originally posted by Jarvmeister I've just noticed the 'pop' that occurs when you engage or disengage the filters - it's widely discussed on the A&H forums, pretty disappointed with that - seems audible even when you activater it on the beat. My 800 did it too - but not as badly. Also I notice that I get a popping in time with the tempo tap flash button, although only in the headphones. Only noticeable when volume is really really low - but an imperfection none the less. Again it's been discussed on the A&H forum many times. My verdict so far: the 92 is more of a purist's mixer, but I don't accept that the 92 is head and shoulders above the 800 - they are both great pieces of kit, and they both have flaws.

Interesting read. Fair assessment as well.
I think another point that should be noticed then is the price. From the average site that i've visited over the last while the 800 is considerably more expensive.

I also noticed the pops and clicks you're talking about. Don't really annoy me that much. The pops aren't really that noticeable to me. The clicks from the tempo flash i've reduced my just waiting 16 beats between each time i hit the button. Just reduces its occurrence obviously.

I'd like to have a proper play around with the 800

The Xone filters have actually got 7 modes, not just the 3 obvious ones...

As well as LP, BP and HP, there's LBP (low + band pass - basically low pass but with more resonance and sounds smoother than just cranking up the resonance), HBP (high + band pass - same sort of idea but high pass), Notch (band reject - "opposite" of band pass, i.e. it gets rid of the frequency you set it to and leaves everything else) and Sweep (basically just boosts the frequency you set it to by the amount the resonance knob is set to.

You get LBP by pressing the LPF + BPF buttons and the same time, HBP by pressing HPF + BPF together, Notch by pressing HPF + LPF together and Sweep by pressing them all at once.

As a little extra note, if you keep the frequency knob moving up and down with a notch filter, it can sound a bit like a phaser, or do the same with the Sweep and it can sound a bit like a flanger. Play around with the resonance though to get it right - particularly for the best "phaser" effect you probably only want the resonance knob at about 70%.



On the wet/dry situation, Xone don't implement their filters like "effects" in that way, but you can make the sound completely dry in LP and LBP modes by setting the frequency to 20kHz and in HP and HBP modes by setting the frequency to 20Hz, setting the resonance to minimum in both cases.

Because of this, smoothly going from a low pass to a high pass is a pain, but is possible (and after a while it becomes automatic):
1. Fade the frequency up to 20kHz
2. Fade the resonance down to minimum
3. Turn off the filter
4. Set the frequency to 20Hz
5. Set the filter to HP or HBP
6. Turn the filter back on again
7. Turn the resonance up again
8. Crank the frequency and hear it scream

Do that in reverse to go from a high pass to a low pass.

You can't make the BP or Notch filters completely dry but you can make Sweep completely dry by just setting the resonance to minimum.



For the smoothest effect, try and adjust the resonance and frequency knobs at the same time. For example in high pass mode, you don't normally want the resonance up too high when the frequency's low as it boosts the bass too much, but you might want more resonance as you filter up so you get a bit of a whistle, so turn it up as you turn up the frequency.


Hope this helps.

quote:

Originally posted by Stu Cox For the smoothest effect, try and adjust the resonance and frequency knobs at the same time. For example in high pass mode, you don't normally want the resonance up too high when the frequency's low as it boosts the bass too much, but you might want more resonance as you filter up so you get a bit of a whistle, so turn it up as you turn up the frequency. Hope this helps.

Quality post, especially that last bit. Good heads up about the peaking which i've seen happen all too many time while i record a set

Cheers for the replies chaps - really helping lots.

The other gripe I have about the filters is that they're post cue not pre cue, meaning you have no way of knowing how much filter effect you're using on your incoming track.

I emailed A&H to see if there was a jumper setting that could be set - sadly no. Their reply:

quote:

Hi Ross, As the filters are present only on on the outputs (they feed the L-R MIX buses), it wouldn't be possible to hear them on channel cues, which are essentially input monitoring signals, I'm afraid. The filters would only be audible when using the Add Mix function to the Cue signals. Best regards, Allen & Heath Technical Support Team

Another observation about this mixer is, and maybe this is the analogue vs digital thing, it seems as though a track is one complete sound on the Xone, on the 800 it seemed like all the elements of the track were seperate.

It's taking some getting used to! It doesn't really help that I'm having to use a pair of Panasonic personal stereo headphones! I left my 7506's up in York and I'm praying they arrive today, my mate has posted them down.

I also decided to order a decent set of phono leads, rather than the flimsy ones I had kicking around.

A replacement faceplate for my Xone's going to cost �67 which I think is reasonable - it'll give it a new look.

Happy days. Love the mixer - and really am looking forward to that first moment I 'click' with it. For now it's like learning to mix all over again!

Jarv

quote:

Originally posted by Jarvmeister 2. The 800s finish is more durable than the Xone's. Both mixers are 3 years old, yet the Xone's finish has visibly deteriorated over time, whereas the 800s finish is laquered so hard it's not ever going to deteriorate.

lol, you should see the 800 they have at the warehouse (the local big club i play at)

the paint is down to bare metal around the faders, most of the fader knobs are missing and it generally looks entirely beat to fuck

granted there's touring djs going through pretty much every week... on a given weekend i'd say there's at least 12 djs that will play on it over the course of friday, friday afterhours, saturday and saturday afterhours

to be fair though you don't have to have touring djs play on a mixer for it to start being worn. Granted it is better if one person uses it than many, but my mixer is starting to look more beaten than tina turner.

quote:

Originally posted by Jarvmeister I'm considering buying a replacement faceplate for it - just to give it a new feel - anyone have any experience in getting hold of one? I've emailed A&H in the UK and await a response.

i know there are websites that sell customizable uhmm.. im gonna say plates in lack for a better word, that you put on the mixer/cd-players etc, and you can either select a premade design, or make one yourself.. it can look pretty cool actually. i'll see if i can find a link

quote:

Originally posted by dj_alfi i know there are websites that sell customizable uhmm.. im gonna say plates in lack for a better word, that you put on the mixer/cd-players etc, and you can either select a premade design, or make one yourself.. it can look pretty cool actually. i'll see if i can find a link

http://www.styleflip.com/

???

EG>








I actually really like the way this 92 looks. Might purchase one of these vinyls. Something that's not too loud and simple enough.

I'd LOOOOOOOOVE to get a black faceplate for my xone:92 rotary, with all the original markings though. Dunno if anyone makes them and I don't think it's that easy to replace as from what i've understood the mixer is mounted on the faceplate and it'd be therefore much easier to replace the "box" part of the mixer than the faceplate (on the xone:92 that is).

I was going to say I wasn't keen on anything like this, but when I saw that black one I had a rethink.

Since everything else in my setup is black, I'm now deliberating.

Love this mixer now - have got my trusted cans back - and am loving the split cue feature, it totally trounces the 800s cueing system.

quote:

Originally posted by Jarvmeister I was going to say I wasn't keen on anything like this, but when I saw that black one I had a rethink. Since everything else in my setup is black, I'm now deliberating. Love this mixer now - have got my trusted cans back - and am loving the split cue feature, it totally trounces the 800s cueing system.

Used a DJM 800 mixer on friday night, and I have agree. I like the cueing system on the xone. Although i sometimes cue both tracks and try not use the mix feature every now and again just to practise as i want always run across a mixer with that feature


Also regarding the styleflip vinyls, i think you can select to get the writing that appears around the pots and buttons and fader etc. Check the website but i'm pretty sure you can.

quote:

Originally posted by n3lly Used a DJM 800 mixer on friday night, and I have agree. I like the cueing system on the xone. Although i sometimes cue both tracks and try not use the mix feature every now and again just to practise as i want always run across a mixer with that feature Also regarding the styleflip vinyls, i think you can select to get the writing that appears around the pots and buttons and fader etc. Check the website but i'm pretty sure you can.

They didn't have the xone:92 rotary available the last time I checked. Now they do. Still, it'd cost me over 50� (incl. shipping) for a sticker to put on my xone. Also applying the sticker to the xone:92 would be rather difficult i'd think as you'd probably have to properly disassemble it to get it just right. So I'm definitely gonna skip it for now at least. We'll see what sort of craziness i get into in the future though�

quote:

Originally posted by Stu Cox you can make the sound completely dry in LP and LBP modes by setting the frequency to 20kHz and in HP and HBP modes by setting the frequency to 20Hz, setting the resonance to minimum in both cases.

surely you want the resonance knob to be at 12 o clock, not at minimum?

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