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New Toronto billboard bylaw will bring down hundreds and tax whats left!

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A proposed sign tax that would add millions to city coffers could also mean hundreds of billboards across Toronto would be pulled down. "Alarming" was the word used by Rosanne Caron, president of the Out of Home Marketing Association of Canada, which represents nine sign firms, five of them affected by the new measures. A new bylaw being considered would establish uniform rules across the city for legal, permanent signs and a new billboard tax that would raise $10.4 million. "The new tax has the potential to put some companies out of business ... and reduce opportunities for public service advertising," Caron said. But Rami Tabello of Illegalsigns.ca, a watchdog group, says it will also clean up the city's skyline by eliminating illegally placed signs.

http://media.thestar.topscms.com/im...e8809776a8.jpeg

1) yet another city tax grab

2) id rather see billboards than plain brick walls or walls full of graffitti

3) i cant believe there is actually a group formed against this. Do people in this city really have nothing better to do?

4) can this city become any more anti business?

1) probably or someone's goodie goodie idea to 'clean up'.
2) I'd actually rather see brick walls and graffiti.
3) no, they probably don't

4) I'm sure it could, but it's fucking over homeowners pretty good already with municipal land transfer tax, higher water bills, and the province's HST is going to hurt us even more.

Hmmmm...I'd like to see the full article and more information, that link doesn't work...Could you provide another, Jay?

that was the full article.


If youd rather see brick walls and graffiti i cannot fathom why. A lot of ads are colourful and add to an otherwise bleak city. Its not like we are rome or paris or anywhere with significant character. Billboards, murals and signs should be encouraged along with better archetecture and design.

The city is F ing everyone over but especially business which is why its fleeing to city in droves.

More bylaws = more cost = less competativeness = lost business = fewer jobs. Rinse... repeat

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Originally posted by Jayx1 that was the full article. If youd rather see brick walls and graffiti i cannot fathom why. A lot of ads are colourful and add to an otherwise bleak city. Its not like we are rome or paris or anywhere with significant character. Billboards, murals and signs should be encouraged along with better archetecture and design. The city is F ing everyone over but especially business which is why its fleeing to city in droves. More bylaws = more cost = less competativeness = lost business = fewer jobs. Rinse... repeat

Oh. I agree though. Could you imagine driving into the city without all those boards along the Gardiner? It would be SO bleak and boring, it would probably cause me to fall asleep at the wheel. I guess I'm biased though, I also like admiring them for their creativity.

I really like Astral Media's new "Superboards" - digital OOH displays. They're humongous and flashy, full of bright color, they are really impressive, there should be more of those in the city (where appropriate).

I remember walking home from Footwork once and admiring a huge Audi execution on University Ave. in what would've otherwise been an ordinary crappy parking lot.

This new bylaw will ban most billboards and all video billboards except at yonge and dundas. The ones already in place will be taxed $24000 per year which basically means they will be taxed out of existence.

Just when you think toronto cant get any more pathetic.....

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Originally posted by Jayx1 This new bylaw will ban most billboards and all video billboards except at yonge and dundas. The ones already in place will be taxed $24000 per year which basically means they will be taxed out of existence. Just when you think toronto cant get any more pathetic.....

24K ??? Are you kidding me? That's fucking ridiculous!

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Originally posted by MikeyN 24K ??? Are you kidding me? That's fucking ridiculous!

apparently its the first and only tax of this kind in the world.... i guess u cant say toronto isnt innovative!

Whats next? taxing seniors to use parks or taxing sidewalks? Oh wait... never mind!

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Originally posted by Jayx1 apparently its the first and only tax of this kind in the world.... i guess u cant say toronto isnt innovative! Whats next? taxing seniors to use parks or taxing sidewalks? Oh wait... never mind!

nope just tax cyclists and force insurance for all cyclists!

As someone who works in the media industry I think this is a good idea; it has been a long time coming for outdoor media.

Outdoor ads have gone crazy in this city, many of them are unlicensed, too large based on the licence they have and generally not that good of quality (nor maintained to keep them looking good).

The billboard conglomerates (Pattison, Viacom/CBS, Lamar) are typically pretty good with their sites, but the problem is the rogue installations that actually clutter up the city and devalue the whole industry.

Check out this site for some good analysis on the issues: http://www.IllegalSigns.ca

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Originally posted by rabbitjoker As someone who works in the media industry I think this is a good idea; it has been a long time coming for outdoor media. Outdoor ads have gone crazy in this city, many of them are unlicensed, too large based on the licence they have and generally not that good of quality (nor maintained to keep them looking good). The billboard conglomerates (Pattison, Viacom/CBS, Lamar) are typically pretty good with their sites, but the problem is the rogue installations that actually clutter up the city and devalue the whole industry. Check out this site for some good analysis on the issues: http://www.IllegalSigns.ca

indeed, many of the existing billboards flaunt existing bylaws as it is, and to be honest, i really don't want to see yet another car ad or yet another big mac ad. i'll take my skyline, architecture, and local artistry over corporate slogans any day.

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Originally posted by -g- indeed, many of the existing billboards flaunt existing bylaws as it is, and to be honest, i really don't want to see yet another car ad or yet another big mac ad. i'll take my skyline, architecture, and local artistry over corporate slogans any day.

+1

completely agreed, and i think $24000/yr is a fair tax for advertising realty at yonge and dundas...

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Originally posted by rabbitjoker As someone who works in the media industry I think this is a good idea; it has been a long time coming for outdoor media. Outdoor ads have gone crazy in this city, many of them are unlicensed, too large based on the licence they have and generally not that good of quality (nor maintained to keep them looking good). The billboard conglomerates (Pattison, Viacom/CBS, Lamar) are typically pretty good with their sites, but the problem is the rogue installations that actually clutter up the city and devalue the whole industry. Check out this site for some good analysis on the issues: http://www.IllegalSigns.ca

Why on earth would you support an initiative that restricts your locations (thereby limiting income), implements taxes (thereby raising costs to you and the consumer) and actually bans certain types of ads? (again limiting income)? If you are in the business this should worry you. Because less income and higher costs mean fewer customers and job insecurity for YOU. Kind of reminds me of the mcdonalds employee who celebrates the fact that its a slow day for the restaurant and then wonders why hes getting fewer shifts.

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Originally posted by -g- indeed, many of the existing billboards flaunt existing bylaws as it is, and to be honest, i really don't want to see yet another car ad or yet another big mac ad. i'll take my skyline, architecture, and local artistry over corporate slogans any day.

Seeing a big mac ad... is it really that big of a deal? Really? I mean some of the ads out there are boring and ugly but a lot of them actually ad colour to the landscape. And "unregulated" ads actually encourage creativity in some ways because those painted murals that are actually advertisements can be pretty cool.

I dont understand how people can keep supporting taxes and control over every little facet of life.

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Originally posted by LightsOut +1 completely agreed, and i think $24000/yr is a fair tax for advertising realty at yonge and dundas...

based on what? have you looked at the numbers and the income statement for running a billboard?

If anything its a rip off. Property taxes on 2000 square feet average about $5000. How big is a billboard? 200 square feet? For $24000?

Nothing but a cash grab.

I hope when they introduce a new tax that YOU have to pay you will have the same nonchalant reaction

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Seeing a big mac ad... is it really that big of a deal? Really? I mean some of the ads out there are boring and ugly but a lot of them actually ad colour to the landscape. And "unregulated" ads actually encourage creativity in some ways because those painted murals that are actually advertisements can be pretty cool. I dont understand how people can keep supporting taxes and control over every little facet of life.

i support the law and a reasonable enjoyment of the space in which i live.
if for you that constitutes being ok with flagrant violation of city laws in the name of commerce, and you enjoy corporate splash art over original artistic expression or the beauty of the buildings that abound in our city, i can't help you.

the fact is, billboards are often erected in what would otherwise be free and public space. i enjoy unique architecture, art, and hell, yes, even an unmolested skyline. to impose on those things SHOULD cost corporations big money. that's what governance is all about after all - managing public assets and overseeing the welfare of its citizens through representation in commercial life an otherwise.

there is nothing unique or interesting about billboard advertisements - if i wanted those, i'd watch tv all day or rip adds out of magazines and plaster my own walls with them. these things add nothing of any value to my life and while i don't like them, i accept them in return for funding government programs through remuneration.

its what people call a fair trade. and its something this organization you originally quoted to start this thread actually agreed to prior to its pandering press release. typical pr and i'm surprised anyone would expect to hear anything different or feel somehow aggrieved on their behalf.

edit there...

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Originally posted by -g- i support the law and a reasonable enjoyment of the space in which i live. if for you that constitutes being ok with flagrant violation of city laws in the name of commerce, and you enjoy corporate splash art over original artistic expression or the beauty of the buildings that abound in our city, i can't help you.

there are so many bylaws and BS that you and i violate city laws every day. You cant help but to!! Laws we dont even know exist!

quote:

the fact is, billboards are often erected in what would otherwise be free and public space. i enjoy unique architecture, art, and hell, yes, even an unmolested skyline. to impose on those things SHOULD cost corporations big money. that's what governance is all about after all - managing public assets and overseeing the welfare of its citizens through representation in commercial life an otherwise.

Free and public space? Last i checked, billboards were built on private property. If you want an unmolested skyline its too late because toronto has become nothing but a sea of cookie cutter condos. I think some colourful and unique signs and billboards might make them a little more attractive. And the problem with governance in toronto is that its based on mircomanagement thinking and is over reaching into EVERY facet of our lives. To the point where the law starts to be ignored. Which is what they want, because then the fine money rolls in! Just look at parking as an example of this.

quote:

there is nothing unique or interesting about billboard advertisements - if i wanted those, i'd watch tv all day or rip adds out of magazines and plaster my own walls with them. these things add nothing of any value to my life and while i don't like them, i accept them in return for funding government programs through remuneration.

They already pay taxes. Business taxes, sales taxes and property taxes (through rent). Just like everyone else. This new tax is just another tax grab. Plain and simple.

quote:

its what people call a fair trade. and its something this organization you originally quoted to start this thread actually agreed to prior to its pandering press release. typical pr and i'm surprised anyone would expect to hear anything different or feel somehow aggrieved on their behalf.

if you feel a new tax unlike any other in the world is fair, just, and business friendly then thats your opinion. If you feel that adding a few million dollars to the city so they can waste it is worth the jobs this will cost then thats up to you. I just hope that you feel the same way about taxation when the HST comes in and charges you 8% more for everything from gasoline to electricity to even the internet. Because hey, its fair trade isnt it?

wait till they introduce the "Play Music" tax/noise pollution fine...if you want to play music you have to pay for it.....that will go over well.

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced wait till they introduce the "Play Music" tax/noice pollution fine...if you want to play music you have to pay for it.....that will go over well.

fair trade right? Oh wait that affect US so its unjust!!!! Down with play music taxes!!

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 based on what? have you looked at the numbers and the income statement for running a billboard? If anything its a rip off. Property taxes on 2000 square feet average about $5000. How big is a billboard? 200 square feet? For $24000? Nothing but a cash grab. I hope when they introduce a new tax that YOU have to pay you will have the same nonchalant reaction

of course it a cash grab, and the city needs money right now. The reason i don't mind this type of bylaw is because it goes after these large corporations, who can afford to pay $24000 a year for prime advertising space, and not the average toronto resident.

If a new tax is implemented for Toronto residents, I may or may not support it, the city needs adequate funding to prosper and the current model does not seem to be working, so I'm fully open to them exploring new alternatives, which may very well be through taxes.

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Originally posted by LightsOut of course it a cash grab, and the city needs money right now. The reason i don't mind this type of bylaw is because it goes after these large corporations, who can afford to pay $24000 a year for prime advertising space, and not the average toronto resident.

because they are bottomless money pits unaffected by the recession. And they also dont have the option of packing up and heading for more competitive jurisdictions right? And corperations do nothing for the average citizen because the jobs and convenient lifestyles they provide are nothing compared to what the government can do... am i right so far?

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If a new tax is implemented for Toronto residents, I may or may not support it, the city needs adequate funding to prosper and the current model does not seem to be working, so I'm fully open to them exploring new alternatives, which may very well be through taxes.

i am open to new alternatives too! How about cost cutting, waste reduction, getting rid of frills and ENCOURAGING more business to ENTER the city instead of leave it? (which it is already doing).

Higher taxes are a short term gain but a long term loss since people/business get fed up and leave.

BTW a new tax on business indirectly is a new tax on residents because guess who ends up paying for the higher costs? It means higher prices for us the consumer in the end.

What there should be is a law that makes it mandatory for everyone to take courses in economics and finance!

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced wait till they introduce the "Play Music" tax/noise pollution fine...if you want to play music you have to pay for it.....that will go over well.

PS there already is a play music tax. Look up SOCAN and see for yourself!

there is so much unsubstantiated throw-away opinion in this thread i think its best to just walk away and realize that the change is good, and it is coming, whether the sky-is-falling naysayers like it or not.

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