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are diminished chords used in trance

whenever i try and mix some diminished chords within a melody which is minor it sounds out of place ,like you suddenly want to get back to the tonic ,just would like to know if you gu ys have tried to use them and are they usefull maybe you could post samples .

Depends on what kind of trance you're making. It's pretty standard to just use minor and major chords in trance music, hell me using add 6 add 9 chords and 7ths/9ths sounds almost like too much for uplifting trance.

I'd imagine a lot of the darker progressive trance uses diminished chords every once in a while, though. It's not entirely unlikely

I don't think I've ever heard a diminished chord used in trance, but it certainly could be used. A vii-dim chord is used in a lot of music as a substitute for the V7 because the vii chord contains the same notes, particularly the diminished interval.

For example, if you're in the key of Cmaj, the V7 (dominant) chord is:

G-B-D-F

The diminished fifth interval between the B and F notes is what makes it so dissonant. That same interval is present in the vii chord:

B-D-F

Both chords have a strong tendency to resolve to the I chord because the B wants to resolve upwards to the C and the F wants to resolve down the E (i.e., the root and third of the tonic chord).

The same concept applies to minor keys. The dominant (V7) or vii chord is built on the major 7 note of the scale (from melodic or harmonic minor scale, rather than the natural minor scale, in which the 7th note of the scale is a minor 7 from the root). Again the B-D-F wants to resolve to the tonic, except that the F wants to resolve to the Eb (rather than E-natural), in Cmin.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the chord built on the 2nd note in a minor key (i.e., ii-dim chord) is also dimiinished and has a strong tendency to resolve to the III chord, but rarely used in EDM, pop/rock, etc.

they are

diminished 7ths as dominant substitutes
diminished as a major chord with a passing non chord tone (#4 - 5)
common tone diminished chords lets say Cdim7 going to C# F# A

Motivic progressions. Try this one.

c eb f# a
c# f# a
d f# a

then repeat starting with d# dimished 7

the chords would be [dim7] of V going to V6/4 going to VI

lots of songs have them but they tend to be more epic as they generally introduce more chord motion and require more chords.

Isnt dimished chords only for major scales ? in which case 99% of trance is made in a minor scales which alone should be the reason why they arent used.

nope. They are used in both modes with minor being somewhat more prevalent but it doesn't really matter.

quote:

Originally posted by RichieV nope. They are used in both modes with minor being somewhat more prevalent but it doesn't really matter.

I meant major chord, anyways, is there a dimished in either of these ?

http://www.subtleinc.net/picc1.JPG

http://www.subtleinc.net/picc2.JPG

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle I meant major chord, anyways, is there a dimished in either of these ? http://www.subtleinc.net/picc2.JPG

In the second image, the chord on the 2nd and 4th beats of bar 92 appears to be (from bottom to top):

Ab D C Eb F

Assuming I'm reading it correctly (that's a weird looking piano roll - the notes right above the bass notes looked photoshopped or something). At any rate, the Ab and D create a tritone (diminished 5th/augmented 4th) that you'd find in a diminished chord, but it's not a true diminished7 or half-diminished7 chord. The D-natural note serves more as a pivot note between the C and Eb of the Fmin7 (first inversion) chord.

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik In the second image, the chord on the 2nd and 4th beats of bar 92 appears to be (from bottom to top): Ab D C Eb F Assuming I'm reading it correctly (that's a weird looking piano roll - the notes right above the bass notes looked photoshopped or something). At any rate, the Ab and D create a tritone (diminished 5th/augmented 4th) that you'd find in a diminished chord, but it's not a true diminished7 or half-diminished7 chord. The D-natural note serves more as a pivot note between the C and Eb of the Fmin7 (first inversion) chord.

They look that way because the notes above the bass belongs to a different MIDI track in the song, but okey so i was almost using a dimished chord in my track then.

Off scale notes and trance don't mix so well? Has anyone of you managed to successfully use off scale notes in melody or perhaps in harmony?

If so could you give some examples?

Perhaps a neapolitan sixth or a phygrian cadense!?

Synth1.mp3 - 0.29MB


made something quick to show you all those chords in a simple progression


dim7
half diminished
neapolitan 6
phrygian cadence
augmented chord
dominant 7
minor
major

all those chords are in this simple progression

quote:

Originally posted by RichieV Synth1.mp3 - 0.29MB made something quick to show you all those chords in a simple progression dim7 half diminished neapolitan 6 phrygian cadence augmented chord dominant 7 minor major all those chords are in this simple progression

Well uh sounds somewhat like mozart's requiem. bu but its still more like classical! But well yes some classical tunes can be easily converted to trance like mozart's requiem or bach's air. bu but still?

quote:

Originally posted by offensive_newbi Well uh sounds somewhat like mozart's requiem. bu but its still more like classical! But well yes some classical tunes can be easily converted to trance like mozart's requiem or bach's air. bu but still?

it isn't. But of course it sounds like classical because I used a block chord voicing to show the chords off better. You also don't have to use them all. And every trance progression is a quotation of some classical tune somewhere so get used to fact that every melody and chord progression you are using is probably been used 100 years ago.

quote:

Originally posted by RichieV Synth1.mp3 - 0.29MB made something quick to show you all those chords in a simple progression dim7 half diminished neapolitan 6 phrygian cadence augmented chord dominant 7 minor major all those chords are in this simple progression

I think it sounds pretty cool - you should finish it and submit it to the TA album!

quote:

Originally posted by RichieV Synth1.mp3 - 0.29MB

Sounds like a progression Muse would use, I love it.

But here is the challenge: Can someone of you make an uplifting progression/harmony/melody that is not clearly sad or happy AND uses off key notes and perhaps other than standard major/minor chords?

quote:

Originally posted by offensive_newbi But here is the challenge: Can someone of you make an uplifting progression/harmony/melody that is not clearly sad or happy AND uses off key notes and perhaps other than standard major/minor chords?

Why would you want your music to NOT convey some emotion?

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik Why would you want your music to NOT convey some emotion?

But uplifting emotion?

define uplifting

anyways, the answer is yes to all your questions. Yes you can use these chords and yes they are used. The line i made was on the spot to show all of the mentioned chords packed into one line. The point wasn't to create the best melody, in fact there really isn't a melody, but to work in all those chords people don't seem to think work in trance into a workable progression in the trance idiom.





here is a link to a tutorial I posted but nobody seemed to care so I just stopped

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=525446


this one is uplifting and has diminished chords and modal mixture.

uplifting with diminished chords

quote:

Originally posted by offensive_newbi But uplifting emotion?

If you used it to build tension that resolves into a major chord, probably. But there's probably better ways of doing that than using diminished chords.

quote:

Originally posted by RichieV define uplifting

i'll return that a bit later!

quote:

here is a link to a tutorial I posted but nobody seemed to care so I just stopped http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=525446 this one is uplifting and has diminished chords and modal mixture. uplifting with diminished chords

For some reason I have completely missed that thread. Maybe it was because of summer but I would definitely hear more. And those would be easier to read if they were in cmaj/amin uh sorry for my laziness but still!

quote:

Originally posted by offensive_newbi But uplifting emotion?

One diminished chord does not immediately make the entire track dark and brooding. The point of diminished and other dissonant chords is to resolve.

Diminished chords are used all the time. In trance, in progressive, in whatever. Listen to any Christopher Lawrence mix circa, I don't know, 2004 or earlier, and you'll hear a few hundred of them.

If they've become less common over the years it's probably because of the proliferation of cookie-cutter music from producers who know nothing about composition and just copy their favourite tracks. Obviously they are "harder" to use correctly than simple major/minor chord combinations and therefore many producers just don't bother.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Diminished chords are used all the time. In trance, in progressive, in whatever. Listen to any Christopher Lawrence mix circa, I don't know, 2004 or earlier, and you'll hear a few hundred of them.

Could you give a concrete example of that ?

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle Could you give a concrete example of that ?

Well it'd be hard to produce a "recent" example in the trance genre since I haven't accumulated any of it since about 2004, but if that's not a concern then sure, let me know and I'll dive in.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Well it'd be hard to produce a "recent" example in the trance genre since I haven't accumulated any of it since about 2004, but if that's not a concern then sure, let me know and I'll dive in.

Im a big fan of Christopher Lawrences sound at any time, so old or new doesnt matter.

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