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Sampling (From A Legal Stand Point)

Hi there,

I've been messing around with sampling in the last few weeks and it made me wonder: "if i ever make a good song using several samples from several different song, would i be able to send this song to a label?"

I vaguely remember that there's a time cutoff (using X seconds is allowed) or something like that but im not sure...

Is anyone updated with the rulebook?

the label can get approval from the original tracks labels, just let them know from which tracks you took the samples from and they should take it further.

What if i call it a remix? do i still need to get an approval from the sample owner? can one even sign it to a different label?

It could be different for some countries but normally there is no cutoff time. This means, from a legal point of view, you would need writting permission from all the owners of the master rights from which you sampled individually. No matter if it's 3 minutes of one tenth of a second.

quote:

Originally posted by Viber What if i call it a remix? do i still need to get an approval from the sample owner? can one even sign it to a different label?

no.yes.no.

in your case it seems best to just make a bootleg/remix and give it away for free on the net, not trying to release it.

People sample and release without permission, of course, but that doesn't make it legal. Several of them bank on the fact that they're just unlikely to get caught if they use a short enough sample and mask it well. The bottom line is that you need to get permission from the original label before you release it.

No, calling it a remix doesn't confer any immunity, in fact it just draws more attention to the fact that you didn't go through the proper channels. Remixes need to be licensed.

And the aforementioned "releasing" includes releasing into the public domain. Just because you're not making money from the sample, doesn't mean you have implied broadcast rights. Again, many bootleggers simply rely on the fact that if they're not bringing in any income from it then the lawyers will concentrate on more important targets. That doesn't make them immune.

I'll sum it up for you: If you plan to do anything significant with this track, then clear the samples, or have your label do it for you. Otherwise, keep a very, very low profile.

Damn! this sucks...no more sampling for me i guess

But i have to admit i'm pretty confused, you can spot videos in youtube with over 1 million views by artists like Pogo and many other hobbyists who i'm sure did not get permission from those big gunz they are remixing.
They are obviously not keeping it low profile too.
Do you want to tell me all those people are risking themselves with lawsuits?

Technically yes. But in most cases it's unlikely to happen. Plenty of people are willing to take that chance and get away with it.

Release it for free and say its a white label. If its on your soundcloud or whatever then everyone will guess its yours anyway, but it makes you slightly more immune if you pretend.

Sorry for all the questions, but i got 3 more:

1) Do i need permission to sample someone talk from a movie\tv show?

2) Do i need permission to sample a part from an acapella? (why would a record company release an acapella if they forbid its remaking and publishing? )

3)

quote:

Originally Posted By Diginut And the aforementioned "releasing" includes releasing into the public domain. Just because you're not making money from the sample, doesn't mean you have implied broadcast rights. Again, many bootleggers simply rely on the fact that if they're not bringing in any income from it then the lawyers will concentrate on more important targets. That doesn't make them immune.

Girl Talk is making a living out of unauthorized sampling and heavy "broadcasting" of many samples.
I know he's not allowed to make an album out of it and sell it without paying those labels, but still - he is a living contradiction to the aforementioned statement.

yes. yes. i didnt get the 3rd question.

quote:

Originally posted by 19503 i didnt get the 3rd question.

How can that contradiction exist in Girl Talk's case?

quote:

Originally posted by Viber 1) Do i need permission to sample someone talk from a movie\tv show?

Yes.

quote:

2) Do i need permission to sample a part from an acapella? (why would a record company release an acapella if they forbid its remaking and publishing? )

Yes, unless the license specifically states that it is free of such restrictions.

quote:

Girl Talk is making a living out of unauthorized sampling and heavy "broadcasting" of many samples.

I have no idea who or what that is. Perhaps if you could elaborate a little we could give you a better answer.

Also keep in mind that just because you're doing something illegal doesn't automatically mean you'll get sued/charged. Consider how many millions of people are illegally downloading (and more importantly, distributing) copyrighted music every day; the industry can only go after so many of them. Some here will argue that it's pointless to go after any of them, but even if they go after some, they don't have anywhere near the resources it would take to go after all. It's the same with record labels; they need/want to sue a lot of people, but can really only afford to go after the softest and most high-profile targets.

quote:

Originally posted by Viber How can that contradiction exist in Girl Talk's case?

what contradiction and whos girl talk?

It should be noted as well that I think the law says that the record label has to be able to prove that they lost income because of your infringement. If you sample something to such a small degree that theres no way that the label could say that they lost income because of it, I think they aren't supposed to be able to sue.

Its all very grey. Chances are you won't be sued, so I think go for it.

I'm not a lawyer, but many labels have contract clauses that say "dude, don't sample. And if you do sample, YOU are the one who is going to take the legal heat if WE get sued" and 99% of the time you are going to have to do the sample clearing yourself unless you sign to a bigish label because it costs money. How you want to interpret that is up to you, but you don't want to burn your contacts and future contacts if you get sued. You can also sign up for a clearance agency that'll do the dirty legal work for you, but that costs money too.

Rather than sell it as a white label, I'd rather go for the blog-house scene to promote it if you are scared. It's much cheaper than pressing to white labels, you gotta know how to master specifically to vinyl so your needle won't bounce around and you gotta pay for your white labels. Don't forget about soundcloud groups. They are great ways to promote. Try to get on hypem.com and look for blogs there.

You can still get in trouble though!

BTW I do not endorse sampling for legal reasons. LOL. And chances are you won't get sued.

quote:

2) Do i need permission to sample a part from an acapella? (why would a record company release an acapella if they forbid its remaking and publishing

Yes. They release acapellas because they want bootlegs. I mean, it's pretty obvious that someone's going to bootleg those acapellas. Just don't sell it. If the label sues you for releasing a free bootleg acapella, it might look bad upon them, so I wouldn't worry if the label does this.

Thanks for the answers guys! it sucks that this is the reality in music today.

Girl Talk is this dude who makes tracks (and sets) from sampling alone.
Here is an example for a girl talk track:



He was also the prime example for this recommended 'pro-sampling' movie:

It's probably been mentioned already but if not: in short, if you use samples from another artist's tune(s), and you clearly label your production as a bootleg of the original, and you give it away for free (i.e., you cannot generate any royalties off it) then you will be fine.

quote:

Originally posted by Nick Cenik It's probably been mentioned already but if not: in short, if you use samples from another artist's tune(s), and you clearly label your production as a bootleg of the original, and you give it away for free (i.e., you cannot generate any royalties off it) then you will be fine.

Do you have the source for this info?

quote:

Originally posted by -FSP- I'm not a lawyer, but many labels have contract clauses that say "dude, don't sample. And if you do sample, YOU are the one who is going to take the legal heat if WE get sued" and 99% of the time you are going to have to do the sample clearing yourself unless you sign to a bigish label because it costs money. How you want to interpret that is up to you, but you don't want to burn your contacts and future contacts if you get sued. You can also sign up for a clearance agency that'll do the dirty legal work for you, but that costs money too. Rather than sell it as a white label, I'd rather go for the blog-house scene to promote it if you are scared. It's much cheaper than pressing to white labels, you gotta know how to master specifically to vinyl so your needle won't bounce around and you gotta pay for your white labels. Don't forget about soundcloud groups. They are great ways to promote. Try to get on hypem.com and look for blogs there. You can still get in trouble though! BTW I do not endorse sampling for legal reasons. LOL. And chances are you won't get sued. Yes. They release acapellas because they want bootlegs. I mean, it's pretty obvious that someone's going to bootleg those acapellas. Just don't sell it. If the label sues you for releasing a free bootleg acapella, it might look bad upon them, so I wouldn't worry if the label does this.

Thanks for the heads up on hypem.com & the soundcloud groups, good tools.

quote:

Originally posted by Nick Cenik It's probably been mentioned already but if not: in short, if you use samples from another artist's tune(s), and you clearly label your production as a bootleg of the original, and you give it away for free (i.e., you cannot generate any royalties off it) then you will be fine.

It's also been mentioned that it's wrong because i will still don't own the broadcasting rights.

http://creativecommons.org/about/sa.../sampling-movie

http://www.centerforsocialmedia.org/fair-use

There was a really cool movie that nefardec (I think) posted in the Music Discussion Forum a while back but I cannot find it - but it also discussed this issue and possibly changing the laws around it.

quote:

Originally posted by Nick Cenik It's probably been mentioned already but if not: in short, if you use samples from another artist's tune(s), and you clearly label your production as a bootleg of the original, and you give it away for free (i.e., you cannot generate any royalties off it) then you will be fine.

Again, this may be probable in practice, but as far as the letter of law is concerned, it's still copyright infringement. And they don't need to prove damages to sue you; direct damages tend to be a part of most lawsuits but courts can also pass injunctions and award punitive damages and other types of damages.

In the real world, lawyers and legal departments have limited resources and can't sue everyone who's ever done them wrong. Triage is a universal fact; emergency rooms treat the most critical patients, burglars break into the wealthiest houses, police go after the most dangerous criminals (or the easiest ones to catch, if you're a cynic like I am).

Lawyers will want to sue the people when they're (a) most likely to win and (b) most likely to get a big settlement/award if they win. That puts your insignificant bootleg pretty low on the list, since you're dirt poor and nobody's going to listen to it anyway. But circumstances can change fast; maybe your track gains some sort of notoriety or the copyright holder has already filed suit against everybody else they could find. That's why I keep saying, you probably won't get sued.

Just like you probably won't hit a tree and break your neck when you go skiing. But it still happens to some people. Make sure you understand the risk you're taking, and don't listen to any of the crap legal advice and bogus loopholes that some guy on the internet heard from a friend who heard it from his brother who heard it from his friend's brother who read it somewhere else on the internet.

Sampling is like speeding. Everybody does it, and you probably won't get caught, but it's still illegal and if you happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time then you could still get busted for it.

oh yeah? hardware is sill better than software

quote:

Originally posted by orTof�nChiLd oh yeah? hardware is sill better than software

?

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