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Acquired taste

Might be kicking in open doors, but i think there is something to discuss here.

Let me explain.
Acquired taste is a well known phenomenon. Everyone knows how it applies to food and beverages; no one liked their first taste of beer or coffee and everyone frowned at their first olive or puff of a cig.
But it applies to music and art as well and is far more debated in that aspect.

My first question is: Looking at yourselves, do your consider some of the genres you currently like to be a form of acquired taste? Did you feel like you had to force yourself to like it and why?

I do remember the first time i listened to a melodic techno album, i thought it was incredibly dull en long-winded. Same goes for ambient. I forced myself to listen to it a couple of times before i was prepared to make a judgment though, and off course it started to grow on me. Now i wonder though, why did i want to like it so much? Was it because i knew many critics and peers that i looked up to would have liked the stuff, or was there something in the music itself that somehow still managed to spark an interest? It might have been a combination of those. Hard to tell now.

There's another issue as well, i am prepared to accept that some of my more recent tastes are definitely acquired. But then which ones weren't? Is there a form of music i liked from the first listen? A taste that came naturally?
Most of my teenage years i was metal-head and I'm pretty damn sure it was because i thought it was cool to listen to noisy stuff. I had no reason to like house music though, none of my friends or peers liked it. It wasn't a cool thing to do. Maybe some of my early encounters with gabber were influenced. But definitely not house and trance. So maybe these were natural. I could never say that with confidence though.

Now the question is, does it matter?
Wikipedia lists a more or less worrying passage on the subject:

�Intentionally changing one's preferences can be hard to accomplish. It usually requires a deliberate effort, such as acting as if one likes something in order to have the responses and feelings that will produce the desired taste. The risk in this acting is that it can lead to all sorts of excesses such as_self-deception_and_pretentiousness.[2]_The challenge becomes one of distinguishing authentic or legitimate acquired tastes resulting from deeply considered preference changes from inauthentic ones motivated by, for example, status or_conformism.[3] �

Hmm, positive or negative? Going back to the beverages, I do now consider a glass of whiskey or a cigarette to be one the finer things in life. But I am also well aware that objectively, they have not improved my life quality by a single bit and I'd probably have been better off without them.
Do you get the same feeling with music? Would i have been just as happy if is stuck to my original likings and not bothered much with musical exploration? Quite possibly. Sometimes it feels more like a hobby then anything else. Listening to a classic house tune that captivated me when i was younger gives me the same if not more satisfaction now as it does listening to my new more 'complicated and refined' music pieces. But there somehow also is satisfaction in enjoying something that was much harder to like in the first place, it feels like I've grown somehow.

Another interesting question: Can you go too far with it? Is it possible to get yourself to the point of identity crisis?

I myself have had moments were I was so determined to find new kinds of experimental music to explore I lost focus on what I was actually looking for: Musical satisfaction. It seriously took the joy out of listening to music for a while before I realized what I was doing. I wonder if I'm alone in this?

for sure dude

edit/elaboration:

I've acquired tastes through exposure & intention. house was tricky for myself because although I loved dance/pop music as a child it seemed boring when I started to appreciate the subtler forms of it

in other areas, stuff that was very "musically satisfying" earlier now seems more like wanky cheese (virtuosic bass guitar solos are a good example)

sounds that were originally painful became intriguing - for example, 10k+ sine waves oscillating wildly at 120db which originally made me physically sick were for some time my favourite "music"

don't worry about it too much. now I am happy to enjoy whatever and also let my tastes vary from moment to moment

For me personally I fell in love with EDM instantly and effortlessly. I didn't have to try, it just..flowed, naturally. As if that's how it was meant to be... I haven't looked back since.

i listen to music that makes me feel good.

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Originally posted by mehta I've acquired tastes through exposure & intention. house was tricky for myself because although I loved dance/pop music as a child it seemed boring when I started to appreciate the subtler forms of it in other areas, stuff that was very "musically satisfying" earlier now seems more like wanky cheese (virtuosic bass guitar solos are a good example)

I get the same feeling, but it doesn't always feel genuine to me.
A nice example is a fairground ride like this one:



When i first tried it as a kid i thought it was thrilling and satisfying.
Now, just a few weeks ago, i tried it again for the laugh. And it felt daft and uncomfortable. How could something that was naturally fun to start with have lost so much of it's charm, do i now feel too good for it? Measly child entertainment? Too conformist? Too cheap? Kind of makes me sad te be so bitter.

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sounds that were originally painful became intriguing - for example, 10k+ sine waves oscillating wildly at 120db which originally made me physically sick were for some time my favourite "music"

Same here, but it makes for a bit of a paradox since it should be like this:

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Originally posted by KilldaDJ i listen to music that makes me feel good.

I listen to experimental noise, drone, tekno or forms of terror/speedcore not because it sounds or feels good. But because it does interesting things with your head. It will eventually sound good but only through prolonged exposure.

I think what comes naturally might be different depending on the person. I myself feel naturally drawn to rhythmic music. Anything purely melodic initially felt like an effort to me.

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don't worry about it too much. now I am happy to enjoy whatever and also let my tastes vary from moment to moment

Me too, but it is interesting because the so called 'musical exploration' after getting tired of the 'gateway genres' is often thought of as being natural. And sure enough it happens to most people evolved in scenes or forums and the like. But when i look at my friends they don't bother with that stuff and they still like the same simple trance and house tunes they started with years ago. Peer pressure is often a hard to understand thing that happens subconsciously. So it might just have more to do with it then we might think.

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Originally posted by Enigmatik For me personally I fell in love with EDM instantly and effortlessly. I didn't have to try, it just..flowed, naturally. As if that's how it was meant to be... I haven't looked back since.

this^

and it shouldnt be done any other way.

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Originally posted by LoveHate this^ and it shouldnt be done any other way.

That's bullshit. My tastes into house music and EDM have grown and evolved (rather quickly, I must add) from heavy metal/alternative music, and then I was exposed to heavy fidget house and electro, really metal sounding kinda stuff, then I got bored of that, and my tastes evolved again.. If you were to tell me 4 years ago that today I'd be going to afterhours clubs and DJing myself, I'd have laughed at you.

Then again, I'm a huge music fan in general. I've gone through waves of listening to hip hop, metal, trip hop, experimental, house music, IDM, jazz, and most recently post rock..

I latch on to a genre of music and listen the shit out of it until I'm bored and thru common ground I find a new genre to open up to.

You shouldn't ever have to force yourself to like any kind of music. If you do, you're missing the point of listening to music entirely.

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Originally posted by ziptnf You shouldn't ever have to force yourself to like any kind of music. If you do, you're missing the point of listening to music entirely.

Yet, if you don't, don't you get the feeling you're missing out? A general notion is that inaccessible music is more rewarding. Just like it is more rewarding to force yourself to listen to a long build-up in a DJ set so that when the big hitters finally come it feels more satisfying. It all has to be within reason of course.

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Originally posted by ziptnf You shouldn't ever have to force yourself to like any kind of music. If you do, you're missing the point of listening to music entirely.

One thing I've noticed however, is that the music that never gets tiring to me, is the music I didn't like much at first.. but it just gets better and better with every listen.

even a piece of feces can be delicious if you put enough tobasco sauce on it.

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Originally posted by epicaricacy even a piece of feces can be delicious if you put enough tobasco sauce on it.

in the end it would taste like tobasco with a hint of shit

delicious

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Originally posted by Bierheld Yet, if you don't, don't you get the feeling you're missing out?

Missing out on what? If I don't like a certain kind of music, how am I missing out if I don't enjoy it?

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A general notion is that inaccessible music is more rewarding. Just like it is more rewarding to force yourself to listen to a long build-up in a DJ set so that when the big hitters finally come it feels more satisfying. It all has to be within reason of course.

Yes, but inaccessible music isn't always the same as music you don't like. If I'm listening to someone's set, and I'm really not digging it at all, I turn it off. I won't force myself to listen to shit until slightly less shitty shit comes on. I'd rather listen to music that I like, even if it's inaccessible. See the difference?

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Originally posted by corjay9 One thing I've noticed however, is that the music that never gets tiring to me, is the music I didn't like much at first.. but it just gets better and better with every listen.

This is true, but I don't think it's a matter of forcing yourself. It's all about curiosity. I don't get into Goa as much as some of my psy-friends on here, but that doesn't mean that I haven't listened to a bunch of it to see if there's anything I like. I wouldn't call that "forcing", I'd call it "exploring". I've found plenty of songs that I actually enjoy, so I'm still not missing out

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Originally posted by ziptnf Missing out on what? If I don't like a certain kind of music, how am I missing out if I don't enjoy it?

It essentially means you're restricting yourself. Although i doubt that's what you actually meant. Don't think of it as a single track in a genre you're already familiar with that just isn't good by any of your standards. Think in genres. You are a man who only listens to trance and you love it for it's cheap trills. Now you are confronted with an ambient record that has none of the euphoric feel and pounding rhythms. You initially think it's boring, so you forget about it. Why would you 'force' yourself to listen to it anyway? Is it the simple fact that you know it's from a respected artist or it's supposed to be good and you want to find out for yourself, or is it because there was something in there that interested you anyway? That is what acquired taste is. Your first beer probably didn't taste like much, but there was either an outside pressure for you to try and drink it anyway or you kind of liked the feel of the alcohol in it.

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Yes, but inaccessible music isn't always the same as music you don't like. If I'm listening to someone's set, and I'm really not digging it at all, I turn it off. I won't force myself to listen to shit until slightly less shitty shit comes on. I'd rather listen to music that I like, even if it's inaccessible. See the difference?

If it's truely inaccessible you probably didn't like it the first time around i think?
It's about acquiring a good taste rather then a bad one. The thing is, how do you tell the difference?

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Originally posted by Bierheld It essentially means you're restricting yourself.

No I'm not. If I expose myself to a certain type of music, and don't like it, I won't listen to it. Will my tastes change to like it later? Maybe. I still listen to a lot of different types of music, but just because I don't like vocal trance or minimal doesn't mean that I'm closed minded.

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Think in genres. You are a man who only listens to trance and you love it for it's cheap trills. Now you are confronted with an ambient record that has none of the euphoric feel and pounding rhythms. You initially think it's boring, so you forget about it.

I hope to god that you're only generalizing and not actually trying to tell me that I only listen to trance.

quote:

Why would you 'force' yourself to listen to it anyway? Is it the simple fact that you know it's from a respected artist or it's supposed to be good and you want to find out for yourself, or is it because there was something in there that interested you anyway?

It can be either, and I see your point. But like I said repeatedly, if I turn something on and don't like it, that doesn't mean I'm restricting myself or missing out on something. It just means I don't like listening to it.

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That is what acquired taste is. Your first beer probably didn't taste like much, but there was either an outside pressure for you to try and drink it anyway or you kind of liked the feel of the alcohol in it.

A good analogy, but I was never disagreeing with this point.

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Originally posted by ziptnf This is true, but I don't think it's a matter of forcing yourself. It's all about curiosity. I don't get into Goa as much as some of my psy-friends on here, but that doesn't mean that I haven't listened to a bunch of it to see if there's anything I like. I wouldn't call that "forcing", I'd call it "exploring". I've found plenty of songs that I actually enjoy, so I'm still not missing out

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If it's truely inaccessible you probably didn't like it the first time around i think? It's about acquiring a good taste rather then a bad one. The thing is, how do you tell the difference?

That's completely subjective. I have some friends that listen to noisy death metal and horrifyingly awful brostep. They think they have awesome taste. I think it's shit. This is why music is so wonderful, because you can listen to stuff you like, as opposed to listening to things you don't like. I won't force myself to listen to death metal and brostep in my spare time, because I don't like it, and I am unlikely to "acquire" that taste.

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Originally posted by Redd in the end it would taste like tobasco with a hint of shit delicious

great, now i'm craving mexican food.

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Originally posted by ziptnf No I'm not. If I expose myself to a certain type of music, and don't like it, I won't listen to it. Will my tastes change to like it later? Maybe. I still listen to a lot of different types of music, but just because I don't like vocal trance or minimal doesn't mean that I'm closed minded.

You're missing the greater debate here. I am not accusing anyone of anything but i am asking you to be critical about yourself.

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I hope to god that you're only generalizing and not actually trying to tell me that I only listen to trance.

Naturally. I am well aware i sometimes have trouble getting my point across, hence the sig.

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It can be either, and I see your point. But like I said repeatedly, if I turn something on and don't like it, that doesn't mean I'm restricting myself or missing out on something. It just means I don't like listening to it. - That's completely subjective. I have some friends that listen to noisy death metal and horrifyingly awful brostep. They think they have awesome taste. I think it's shit. This is why music is so wonderful, because you can listen to stuff you like, as opposed to listening to things you don't like. I won't force myself to listen to death metal and brostep in my spare time, because I don't like it, and I am unlikely to "acquire" that taste.

And there we go: A restriction out of principle.
Believe me i am with you on this. I have loads of metal head friends and the stuff sounds awful to me. No intention to conform myself with them here, but then again i would never claim their music to be bad or inferior. The reason i don�t want to listen to it has more to do with me not liking the culture and its aesthetics.

Here's the thing:
Somewhere in your lifetime you chose to listen to EDM, presumably. This might have felt natural, but I think there might have been other factors.

For anyone listening to music more than one year it shouldn't be a problem differentiating music that's inaccessible (music they don't get) and music that's just plain awful (music they don't like). Acquiring the taste in former usually results in greater pleasure (compared to stying in status quo) and IMO is highly recommended.

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Originally posted by Bierheld You're missing the greater debate here. I am not accusing anyone of anything but i am asking you to be critical about yourself.

You said I was restricting myself, so I responded to tell you that I wasn't. No hard feelings.

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And there we go: A restriction out of principle. Believe me i am with you on this. I have loads of metal head friends and the stuff sounds awful to me. No intention to conform myself with them here, but then again i would never claim their music to be bad or inferior. The reason i don�t want to listen to it has more to do with me not liking the culture and its aesthetics.

I don't care about the culture or anything, I just think it sounds like garbage. I wasn't condemning the music to be inferior, either, I just don't agree with the taste. If music does not resonate with me in a positive or unique way, why would I subject myself to more of it?

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Here's the thing: Somewhere in your lifetime you chose to listen to EDM, presumably. This might have felt natural, but I think there might have been other factors.

Like what? If I recall, my music taste was the least popular amongst all my friends because I listened to trance and techno when I was a teenager. I didn't listen to rebel, or because I felt pressured into it. I listened because I liked it, and that's it.

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Originally posted by ziptnf You said I was restricting myself, so I responded to tell you that I wasn't. No hard feelings.

Any insinuations i might make are hypothetical. I don't know you after all. Don't take it personally.

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I don't care about the culture or anything, I just think it sounds like garbage. I wasn't condemning the music to be inferior, either, I just don't agree with the taste. If music does not resonate with me in a positive or unique way, why would I subject myself to more of it?

It might just be rewarding if you do, who knows? That doesn't mean you should off course.

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Like what? If I recall, my music taste was the least popular amongst all my friends because I listened to trance and techno when I was a teenager. I didn't listen to rebel,

You might have, teenagers usually choose music tastes that are the opposite of what their parents listen to for instance. Both EDM and metal usually fit that description. Which is why these genres are so popular amongst younger people. Your situation was similar to mine, it might have been the case that we were trying to be a bit more unique? Differentiate ourselves from the mass? Not an uncommon thing for a teenager to do.

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or because I felt pressured into it. I listened because I liked it, and that's it.

What would be the logical reason for you to like EDM over for instance metal? Do you think you were born with a natural preference to Electronic music? I doubt it.

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Originally posted by Bierheld It might just be rewarding if you do, who knows? That doesn't mean you should off course.

If listening to the music alone isn't rewarding enough, then listening to more of it doesn't seem logical, right? The definition of insanity is when you do something over and over again and expect different results.

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You might have, teenagers usually choose music tastes that are the opposite of what there parents listen to for instance. Both EDM and metal usually fit that description. Which is why these genres are so popular amongst younger people. Your situation was similar to mine, it might have been the case that were trying to be a bit more unique? Differentiate ourselves from the mass? Not an uncommon thing for a teenager to do.

I don't think social constructs had much to do in my case. A lot of people listened to whatever their friends thought was cool or in style. I got Fruity Loops for Christmas when I was like 12ish and found my own style through lots of searching and experimenting, without intentionally trying to find my own musical identity based on others tastes.

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What would be the logical reason for you to like EDM over for instance metal? Do you think you were born with a natural preference to Electronic music? I doubt it.

Good question. I didn't have to force myself to listen to EDM, but I would have to force myself in order to listen to metal. Why can't my tastes exclude a majority of tracks in a certain genre based on personal preference?

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Originally posted by ziptnf The definition of insanity is when you do something over and over again and expect different results.

Actually, no - That's not really the definition of insanity. That is a convenient slogan adopted by the twelve-step community to describe addiction but its assertion that insanity is only defined by quixotic redundancy severely limits the multitude of mental conditions which insanity correctly regards.

/pedant

I think the whole point of the thread is questioning whether people force themselves to think a certain way because of external pressures. Some tastes change naturally - there are albums I bought and hated, but came back to years later and found my tastes had changed so much I really enjoyed them second time around.

I think when you're new to something and you're hearing it for the first few times, your enjoyment may be tempered by the unfamiliarity. It's only when you grow comfortable with how something works that you get past that self-doubt of "Am I actually enjoying this?" After all, impressions of music can change wildly based on context, first-time listens, general mood and many other factors. I've doubted my own opinion about music in the past. I find the clearest answer is to come back to a record a year later and play it again when you've got past those temporal external factors.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I've doubted my own opinion about music in the past. I find the clearest answer is to come back to a record a year later and play it again when you've got past those temporal external factors.

Have you ever come back to Tiesto - Kaleidoscope?

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