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Stuck and Banging My Head Against a Wall with my Mixing

I don't know why this is happening, but things don't seem to be "clicking" when it comes to beatmatching for me anymore. I know what I'm supposed to do and I have been mixing for a few years now, but I'm still running into mixes that sound like shit no matter what I do. Trying to hide things with the EQs only makes the mix sound worse when I do have to put the base of the incoming track in, for instance.

Tonight, as an example, I was trying to mix these tracks together for a new demo:

1. Samantha James - Subconscious (Nacho Marco Mix)

with either:

2a. King Kooba - Slightly Burnt
or
2b. Mood II Swing - Passing Time (Dub)

Or:

Spirit Catcher - I'm Gonna Make You Dance (Wagon Cookin Mix) @ 125BPM

with

Subconscious or Slightly Burnt

According to the CDJs, the pitches are the same (after adjusting like normal.) According to my ears, the mixes sound off, and when I try to nudge the incoming track up (with a tiny stroke forward on the pitch bend) train wrecking starts to occur. If I try to correct the other way then my ears tell me that things are also worse, but when the pitch is right the mix still sounds awful

Why is it that I can get some mixes down in 15 seconds, while other mixes just don't work at all? Its not like I'm trying to mash together Dubstep and Happy Hardcore... I'm trying to mix two Deep House tunes that in my head will sound great together.

Please help me get un-stuck. I REALLY want to get better.

step one...do not rely on the counter on the cdjs

step 2...you could try using filters

step 3...stuff that sounds good in your head does not always work in principle. no matter how much you may want 2 songs to fit, sometimes they just never will.

Make sure it's a legit file bought from a store - you'd be surprised how many vinyl rips & torrent / blog downloads float on the BPMs.

Other than I'd say also try split cueing from the mixer to hear each channel independently - and use in-ear monitors to hear better at live gigs too.

quote:

Originally posted by BradMiller Make sure it's a legit file bought from a store - you'd be surprised how many vinyl rips & torrent / blog downloads float on the BPMs. Other than I'd say also try split cueing from the mixer to hear each channel independently - and use in-ear monitors to hear better at live gigs too.

true, this bpms jump so much if its just some weird copy you find

quote:

Originally posted by epicaricacy step one...do not rely on the counter on the cdjs step 2...you could try using filters step 3...stuff that sounds good in your head does not always work in principle. no matter how much you may want 2 songs to fit, sometimes they just never will.

I rely on my ears a lot more than I rely on the CDJs. The problem I am having is that my ears tell me the mix sounds off regardless of where the pitch is. I can always get "close," but things still sound sour, or some element comes in at a weird time and sounds awful mixed in, or the beats are just off no matter what.

I don't have anything fancy on my mixer. I have 3 EQs per channel, plus kills for each EQ, six on board effects, and then standard mixer controls like mic EQs, a crossfader, etc. I wish my Numark DXM06 was as advanced as a Zone or Ecler mixer

I can't split cue on my mixer

I'm learning step 3 the hard way... I noticed on some of the commercially available House mix CDs that not every track could (or was) smoothly mixed together. Danny Krivit in particular plays some great stuff, but only blends tracks together in maybe two or three transitions out of several that are on one disc. I have also heard some cuts. I love the track selection that these guys have, but I don't want to resort to mixing like that. I want MY mixing to be as smooth as Adam Vana's demo was.

The tracks in question, and 99+% of the tracks that I use now are legit. Passing Time was ripped straight from the CD single, and the others were bought from iTunes/Beatport.

I struggled a bit with this as well. While it is frustrating, if you keep at it you'll eventually get through it.

As someone else mentioned, sometimes two tracks just don't mix well together.

The first two tracks you listed should be able to be mixed together quite easily.

Learn to lock up your mixes. Even if it means mixing together the tracks you mentioned above 20 times over until you're satisfied you have it down. No. 1 problem with most aspiring DJs is that they want to get into the mix quickly, but the ears are not yet able to discern whether two tracks are actually locked up. Unless you're a natural, the ears have to be conditioned to really hear the various elements of two (or three) tracks coming together. You think you have a mix locked up, bring it in prematurely, then have to scramble when it begins to wander. Make the time to practice locking your mixes up with your headphones/monitors before you make the mix live and your issue should be taken care of.

Proper EQing, especially with Deep House, is another thing to consider. How are you EQing in your headphones? How are you EQing when you bring the line up on your second track? Deep House tends to mean deep bass, and if you're working with two basslines/kicks that don't gel with each other, you're going to have to fine-tune your EQing so your mix doesn't end up sounding muddy.

Practice, practice, practice!

Yeah afraid at this point it probably just comes to practice. Try to fit in an hour of practice every day, record it, then listen to it later at work or at the gym etc... I like to do one straight shot through as if in a club since you'll be able to hear things you did right, things you did wrong, and what you need to do to improve on as part of a whole set. If you set a goal on becoming the ninja master of beatmatching and work on it as much as you can - you will get there!

I used traktor and it has a tool that tells you if it's beatmatched or not, sometimes told that was and surely wasn't...

Try different tracks, some have double kicks or weird things that don't blend easily with other tracks.

A few common examples:

Jochen Miller vs Armin van Buuren - Lost Vocal Connection (Markus Schulz Mashup)

or

Armin van Buuren - Control Freak (Sander van Doorn Remix)

Try to mix them with other tracks and you'll see it's damn hard.

Don't use the pitch, use the platter , for minor adjustments works better, try to set both at a bpm (For example one track is 125 other is 128 set them at 127, move the pitch slowly and as soon as changes to 127 leave it there) if still sounds bad the tracks must be screwed... the first mashup i made being so amateurish i recorded it moving the pitch while the song was playing, as a result the bpms were changing along the track, maybe someone uploaded the track corrupted this way...

Sometimes you just have to walk away from it for a bit. When I know frustration is getting the best of me, I'll stop and go for a walk or something and not think about it. Come back in an hour or so and try it again. A calm clear mind can do wonders. Maybe the transition you're stuck on can work but maybe you're dropping at the wrong points in the songs. Try stopping for a bit and see if that works.

There's a lot of great advice going on in this thread, which will help you get over that hump.

Rerally? I thought there's a lot of shit advice in this thread.

1, Don't touch the platter when its coming out the master, only use the pitch and ride it. Aint that hard.

2, In fact you shouldn't rely on touching the platter even when it's not coming out the master as you'll get used to it/lazy when you have trouble and start touching it when it goes out. So top it. Just ride it.

3, I think I may have had one digital track that floated in BPM and that was because I later found out some twat ripped it off vinyl from belt drives which don't hold pitch. So stop blaming bad files.

4, It's really about practice - do things to really push and test yourself:

* mix breakbeat tracks over house (same BPM range) - you'll start picking out different percussion hits as your points of reference so it's effectively teaching you to listen for different things.
* Blindfold yourself when mixing (i'm not kidding). It stops you relying on visual aids and really makes you concentrate on leanring the tools you have from a tactile and hearing point of view.

5, What the fuck is that about not having split cue? You have headphone cue fader on the DMX06 that allows you to fade between ch1 and ch2 so aside from being able to A/B them totally in the cans, you can also take off one side and do split cue against the master output of your speakers.

You just need to practise more and try mixes that are outside your comfort zone to get better, which means when you do normal mixes it shouldn't be anything other than second nature.

listen to that post. ^^^^

pushing yourself is the best advice anyone can give you. You will fuck up more, but just juggle 2 or 3 tracks for 20 minutes at a time, and you will see that your timing will become impeccable no matter what medium you are using.

Is the master on?



Turn it off.

^why turn that off? with it on won't it lock in the key, regardless of bpm?

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Rerally? I thought there's a lot of shit advice in this thread. 1, Don't touch the platter when its coming out the master, only use the pitch and ride it. Aint that hard. 2, In fact you shouldn't rely on touching the platter even when it's not coming out the master as you'll get used to it/lazy when you have trouble and start touching it when it goes out. So top it. Just ride it.

Can you explain this a bit more, please?

quote:

Originally posted by keithos27 ^why turn that off? with it on won't it lock in the key, regardless of bpm?

i actually find it harder to mix with the master on. plus you can hear some kinda distortion in the beat.. i dunno how to explain it..

The master tempo is important if you are mixing in key and specially in trance or other genres who have a heavy bassline, in house it's not as important and you can turn it off.

With it enabled you can hear some distortion on some transitions, try to mix with virtual dj and keylock enabled and you'll see what we mean

Master tempo is more or less acceptable on CDJ-1000. On the 800's it tends to somewhat flatten the kicks, making it sound as if it skipped a beat once in a while. Have two CD's do that at the same time and you have quite a problem.

Why don't you just stop for a bit, go out and listen/see some really good DJs that you like for some inspiration and then come back to it?

quote:

Originally posted by Teezdalien Why don't you just stop for a bit, go out and listen/see some really good DJs that you like for some inspiration and then come back to it?

^^^^+1 This.^^^^

quote:

Originally posted by keithos27 Can you explain this a bit more, please?

OK - riding the pitch just consists of using the pitch fader to get the cue track to the right speed. So get good at dropping it at the right time and then just either pull or pull the pitch fader to get to the bpm.

You'll find at first you do large movements but as you close in on the right BPM, the movemnt back and forth get smaller and smaller until you have it locked.


Touching the platter is OK when it's just in the headphone but once the cue track is "live" coming out the master you should not touch the platter, because you can hear the obvious bend of the pitch, but you won't if you ride the pitch to get it in.

And frankly once you can pitch ride, there's no need to touch the platter ever.

Also the master tempo should be switched off. Anything higher than 2% and you'll get a distortion of the lower frequencies (especially the kick) that will muddy your mix.

you also don't need it - if you know what the percentages are in terms of semitone differences then the master becomes irrelevant as you can adjust accordingly.

Thanks for all of the advise. I'm going to keep practicing this mix, and post my best transition every day until I get it down. This is the first attempt from last night:

Subconscious Transition Take 1 by DJ Mike Huttman

Shudder is right about the Master Tempo thing. It sounds like there is some glitch or the kicks sound really "digital" when Master Tempo is on. It seems to work fine up to about +/- 2%, and then it gets weird.

I really want to say that I'm doing this for myself, and that I just want to be able to make some nice sounding mixes for the car or whatever. But I keep finding myself checking the stats on Mixcloud and Soundcloud, and wondering what I can do to get more traffic. I keep hearing the same 5 Dubstep tracks that the locals play everytime, and people are eating that shit up like they just heard it for the first time tonight (and these people go out to see these DJs all of the time.) There was one moment in particular two weeks ago at one of my local events. One of the friends of my best friend went up to him to get him to sign the event poster. She said "only my favorite DJs get to sign this" WHILE I WAS STANDING RIGHT THERE! I know I should be better than that petty shit and I kept my cool, but its been simmering in the back of my head since then and it hurts.

I want people to like me. I want to get threads with lots of "awesome! downloading now " and all of that jazz. No one likes being "bad" at something.

Subconscious Transition Take 2 by DJ Mike Huttman

I'm going to keep trying until I get it right. I think I panicked at the end of this one because it was starting to go way off. Also, I need to figure out why the volume keeps dipping when I switch baselines. The gains are at the same setting, and the tracks sound the same through the headphones. Maybe I need to compensate for that somehow by making the change more pronounced or something.

I'm tired of sucking at this. Where can I learn more about proper EQing and making sure the volume is correct?

I can't believe that I'm still BAD after this many years! I started mixing in 2006. Granted I had to take ~28 months off due to schooling, but that still gives me 2 years to be good at this by now

quote:

Originally posted by Dojomaster26 I'm tired of sucking at this. Where can I learn more about proper EQing and making sure the volume is correct?

Watch your levels as you mix. If you see them go down when they shouldn't, then its probably a good idea to bring either the overall volume or one of your EQs up. I usually think of EQing as a give and take. So if I raise the bass on track A, remove some of the frequencies on track B. It doesn't necessarily have to be the bass of track B.

quote:

Originally posted by Dojomaster26 Subconscious Transition Take 2 by DJ Mike Huttman I'm going to keep trying until I get it right. I think I panicked at the end of this one because it was starting to go way off. Also, I need to figure out why the volume keeps dipping when I switch baselines. The gains are at the same setting, and the tracks sound the same through the headphones. Maybe I need to compensate for that somehow by making the change more pronounced or something. I'm tired of sucking at this. Where can I learn more about proper EQing and making sure the volume is correct? I can't believe that I'm still BAD after this many years! I started mixing in 2006. Granted I had to take ~28 months off due to schooling, but that still gives me 2 years to be good at this by now

Watch your levels. Especially if you have a new track with a lower output. When it comes to eqing, try to match your incoming track to your live track. If your new track has to much bass, roll some of that out. Question, are there multiple ways you can cue up in the headphones on your mixer?

Equipment questions:
How new is your mixer? It's possible that one of your input channels could be off a bit when it comes to its overall sound. The thing I've noticed on mixing consoles, over time is (as the gear gets older)inputs, outputs, eq, etc. will tend too lose some of its qualities without maintenance. Dust, can also hamper your gear. Especially the mixer. What about your power source? Is the gear getting good power? Is the outlet that your gear is plugged into sharing with any other source. Refrigerator, a/c, microwave, or any type of source which sucks up a lot power.

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