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The Ideal Melody

"The Ideal Melody" from the book "Music, the Brain, and Ecstasy"


-Nearly all notes in the melody are to chosen from the seven note scale upon which the melody is based. When any of the remaining five chromatic notes are used, they generally should appear in positions that are unaccented and unemphasized so as not to undermine the prevailing harmony.

-Most of a melody's notes should be adjacent scale notes. Jumps should be few, and large jumps are rare.

-To avoid monotony, individual notes should not be repeated too much, particularly at emphasized positions in a melody.

-Harmonic resolutions, such as cadences that we'll consider in the next chapter, should occur at points of rhythmic stress in a melody.

-Similarly, rhythmic accentuations should highlight the melody's contour. Changes in melodic direction should generally fall at rhythmically important junctures.

-A melody should have only one instance of its highest tone, and preferably also of its lowest tone. The highest tone should never be a ton that naturally tends towards a higher one(such as the seventh note of the melody's scale).

-Jumps should always land on one of the seven scale tones, not on one of the five chromatic tones. The ear always hears a jump as emphasized(that is, the brain is more attentive to jumps, since they define the boundaries of submelodies), so jumping to a chromatic tone violates the rule about never emphasizing theses tones.

-Conversely, a melody should never leap from a chromatic tone. The dissonance of a chromatic tone creates tension in need of release. Yet jumps increase tension, and so contradict this need.

show me

Re: The Ideal Melody

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Originally posted by Beatflux "The Ideal Melody" from the book "Music, the Brain, and Ecstasy" -Nearly all notes in the melody are to chosen from the seven note scale upon which the melody is based.

Notice the "nearly". The greatet melodies I know have some subtle scale change in them.



Some really great scale changes in here.

Re: The Ideal Melody

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Originally posted by Beatflux -To avoid monotony, individual notes should not be repeated too much, particularly at emphasized positions in a melody.

Nice post, this was what ive been doing too much of.

Re: Re: The Ideal Melody

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Originally posted by Morvan Notice the "nearly". The greatet melodies I know have some subtle scale change in them. Some really great scale changes in here.

What are some other examples...that one was pretty good.

Re: The Ideal Melody

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Originally posted by Beatflux "The Ideal Melody" from the book "Music, the Brain, and Ecstasy" -Nearly all notes in the melody are to chosen from the seven note scale upon which the melody is based. When any of the remaining five chromatic notes are used, they generally should appear in positions that are unaccented and unemphasized so as not to undermine the prevailing harmony. -Most of a melody's notes should be adjacent scale notes. Jumps should be few, and large jumps are rare. -To avoid monotony, individual notes should not be repeated too much, particularly at emphasized positions in a melody. -Harmonic resolutions, such as cadences that we'll consider in the next chapter, should occur at points of rhythmic stress in a melody. -Similarly, rhythmic accentuations should highlight the melody's contour. Changes in melodic direction should generally fall at rhythmically important junctures. -A melody should have only one instance of its highest tone, and preferably also of its lowest tone. The highest tone should never be a ton that naturally tends towards a higher one(such as the seventh note of the melody's scale). -Jumps should always land on one of the seven scale tones, not on one of the five chromatic tones. The ear always hears a jump as emphasized(that is, the brain is more attentive to jumps, since they define the boundaries of submelodies), so jumping to a chromatic tone violates the rule about never emphasizing theses tones. -Conversely, a melody should never leap from a chromatic tone. The dissonance of a chromatic tone creates tension in need of release. Yet jumps increase tension, and so contradict this need.

Too many "shoulds", "nevers", and "always'" in there. It's like the author spent too much time compiling "rules" from misinformed forumites, rather than studying melodies and listening to what actually works. It's a good thing the great masters didn't adhere to these "rules", otherwise melodies would be as boring as fly shit. And, I really wish these tards would stop referring to concepts in music theory as "rules".

Also, notes and intervals alone do not make a melody. The author failed to mention the equally important parts, particularly the rhythmic aspect, but also interaction with the other voices (e.g., countermelody, harmony), expression, etc.

Ideal = Formulaic
Not Ideal = Terrible or Innovative

Re: Re: The Ideal Melody

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Originally posted by cryophonik Too many "shoulds", "nevers", and "always'" in there. It's like the author spent too much time compiling "rules" from misinformed forumites, rather than studying melodies and listening to what actually works. It's a good thing the great masters didn't adhere to these "rules", otherwise melodies would be as boring as fly shit. And, I really wish these tards would stop referring to concepts in music theory as "rules". Also, notes and intervals alone do not make a melody. The author failed to mention the equally important parts, particularly the rhythmic aspect, but also interaction with the other voices (e.g., countermelody, harmony), expression, etc.

It's only a small excerpt of the book.

Re: Re: Re: The Ideal Melody

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Originally posted by Beatflux It's only a small excerpt of the book.

Then, how useful is your post? Aside from the fact that these "rules" are broken by many of the most well-known melodies in musical history, you've taken an absurd set of "rules" out of context - how useful is that? To take this point to an extreme, it would essentially be like me posting an excerpt on an art forum that essentially goes something like this:

The ideal theme for your art:

- always use complimentary colors
- never use contrasting colors

Not only would it be a stupid thing to write, it would clearly demonstrate that I've never looked at art and I've totally ignored the all-important point of what to actually do with those colors, the art style I'm after, the art medium, etc.

Here is a melody that meets all of the author's rules:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...major_scale.ogg

Well, at least it follows the K.I.S.S. rule and it's memorable.

Re: Re: Re: Re: The Ideal Melody

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Originally posted by cryophonik Then, how useful is your post? Aside from the fact that these "rules" are broken by many of the most well-known melodies in musical history, you've taken an absurd set of "rules" out of context - how useful is that? To take this point to an extreme, it would essentially be like me posting an excerpt on an art forum that essentially goes something like this: The ideal theme for your art: - always use complimentary colors - never use contrasting colors Not only would it be a stupid thing to write, it would clearly demonstrate that I've never looked at art and I've totally ignored the all-important point of what to actually do with those colors, the art style I'm after, the art medium, etc.

Can you name one well known work that defies every single point?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Ideal Melody

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Originally posted by Beatflux Can you name one well known work that defies every single point?

If your talking trance then..




You might not agree it has a melody, but it does the same job just as good and no less, so why aint it one?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Ideal Melody

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Originally posted by Beatflux Can you name one well known work that defies every single point?

Stravinsky's Rite of Spring.

That's not the point. There are very few melodies that defy every one of those points and I never said or implied that they do break every one of them. Many melodies can and do fit into the narrow scope defined by the author, but they don't have to. Also, I'll restate my point in all caps this time: A MELODY IS MORE THAN THE SUM OF ITS NOTES. Restricting yourself to some arbitrary and off-base rules you found in a book or on the Internet is not going to help you write better melodies. Can you name one person who sits down with their big book of music rules and methodically goes about writing melodies by deciding whether or not to stay within the written rules? Of course not.

In response to your question above, which I've already answered (not only here but to a few dozen music theory and composition professors), how about YOU take the time to find your own examples. You have a brain and presumably 2 ears, 2 eyes, 2 hands, and keyboard. So instead of wasting your time constantly posting inane and oversimplified BS from other websites, how about you sit down and spend some time figuring out some classic melodies on your own. It's the time-tested way of learning music - doing it, not reading about it on the Internet.

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Originally posted by cryophonik Restricting yourself to some arbitrary and off-base rules you found in a book or on the Internet is not going to help you write better melodies.

Easy, cryo. Some of the tips are useful, I don't know what else you can ask for here. We all know they're not rules and we shouldn't have to start scrambling to "prove" that you don't have to follow a single one of these tips to write a good melody.

I don't know why people get so touchy over advice relating to songwriting. I tend to do whatever sounds good in my own music but not everyone works that way, and not everyone has a wealth of theory knowledge to refer to. I can see little tips like these helping a few people, so let's just let it do that instead of turning this into another long-winded argument that goes absolutely nowhere.

I concur. As general guidelines, the list was fine. (as "rules", no)

There aren't many threads about actual composition/songwriting in this forum, let's not shoot these threads down when they pop up.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Ideal Melody

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Originally posted by cryophonik Also, I'll restate my point in all caps this time: A MELODY IS MORE THAN THE SUM OF ITS NOTES. Restricting yourself to some arbitrary and off-base rules you found in a book or on the Internet is not going to help you write better melodies. Can you name one person who sits down with their big book of music rules and methodically goes about writing melodies by deciding whether or not to stay within the written rules? Of course not. In response to your question above, which I've already answered (not only here but to a few dozen music theory and composition professors), how about YOU take the time to find your own examples. You have a brain and presumably 2 ears, 2 eyes, 2 hands, and keyboard. So instead of wasting your time constantly posting inane and oversimplified BS from other websites, how about you sit down and spend some time figuring out some classic melodies on your own. It's the time-tested way of learning music - doing it, not reading about it on the Internet.

These are just guidelines to study and keep in mind when writing a melody. It's difference between being in control of your creative techniques, or just slopping paint on the canvas and praying that you will paint something good.

Expanding melody writing skills is like anything else, you have to practice those individual skills so you become good at executing them.

Using melody writing techniques is no different than using side chain compression or creative filtering. You do not have to use these techniques, but as an artist isn't it better to know about them?

I do not really care to wag my dick around in the dark hoping that its going to end up somewhere good, I would rather know what I am doing to achieve a specific result.

I'll just repeat it one last time, then I'll leave it alone. The best way to learn melodies is by immersing yourself in the study of melodies, not by following some canned set of rules or guidelines that unnecessarily restrict your creativity. Screw the guidelines and learn to hear what works and what doesn't by listening and figuring out what you like about a certain melody, why it works in one context, and not the other. Yes, it's more difficult, but it leads to better results, as evidenced by the fact that the great songwriters aren't sitting at their computers thinking to themselves, "hmmmmm....if I start with an E, what note do my guidelines say I should/shouldn't play next?" They're writing melodies based on what they hear, which is a result of repeated listening and singing or playing of good melodies, most of which would break one or more of those "rules", so why put yourself at a disadvantage right off the bat?

Actually, a better way to think about it IMO is to turn it around and think, not in terms of what notes shouldn't I use, but in what instances should I use e.g., chromatic/non-chord tones and look for opportunities to expand your pallette. Again, that comes from listening and learning what works in melodies and what doesn't.

Anyway, sorry if I ruined your thread, but I will always push musicians to screw the shortcuts and take the time to learn their craft. The shortcuts are what lead to all the formulaic crap that we all bitch about so much. Carry on.

That's a fair point, and closer to how I learned. I listened to a heap of melodies, and wrote a lot of melodies. A set of rules on a page isn't the place to start, but can be helpful when someone has already written a few melodies and has some idea of what's involved. Taken on their own, outside of personal experience, I can't imagine they'd be very helpful.

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Originally posted by cryophonik I'll just repeat it one last time, then I'll leave it alone. The best way to learn melodies is by immersing yourself in the study of melodies, not by following some canned set of rules or guidelines that unnecessarily restrict your creativity. Screw the guidelines and learn to hear what works and what doesn't by listening and figuring out what you like about a certain melody, why it works in one context, and not the other. Yes, it's more difficult, but it leads to better results, as evidenced by the fact that the great songwriters aren't sitting at their computers thinking to themselves, "hmmmmm....if I start with an E, what note do my guidelines say I should/shouldn't play next?" They're writing melodies based on what they hear, which is a result of repeated listening and singing or playing of good melodies, most of which would break one or more of those "rules", so why put yourself at a disadvantage right off the bat?

I wouldn't call it a disadvantage, more like increased artistic control. After you know these "rules" you can either break them or follow them. It's no different than learning music "theory."

The guidelines aren't really meant to supplant individual study.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Ideal Melody

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Originally posted by Andy28 If your talking trance then.. You might not agree it has a melody, but it does the same job just as good and no less, so why aint it one?

Look up "melody" in the dictionary.

OK.

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Originally posted by cryophonik OK.

college

I think it all depends on what style you're working with. This is interesting to say the least and is good to know why something works as opposed to how to make one that works. It's good for studying music and applying some of it. Of course there will be exceptions (psytrance, some death metal), but for the most part it's accurate (especially for pop music, I hear Owl City absolutely rape this in all of his songs).

just IMO all of that...

LOL at suggesting total blackout as the ideal melody rofl. shows what this place is about.

good job TA making me laugh today.

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