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Are 'memorable' tracks bad for the EDM scene?

The reason I ask this is cause a lot of the small-time local performers here, who seem to have a niche audience of the same people every night, have this expectation that their set has to always be different. In other words people get tired of hearing the same old tunes if you're playing the same old venues for the same people. But maintaining a familiar and distinct sound is a real challenge if you have to keep digging for new tracks. So with these more 'memorable' tunes, the ones with a strong hook and recognizable melody, you get a reaction from the crowd along the lines of "Oh. This again." That's where I think these 'filler' tracks are really important, the ones that are good and easy to dance to, but you don't really remember them. The forgettable stuff, with a kind of minimal identity that you can just bang out really helps fill the time imo, moreso I think than the anthems that people remember and inevitably get tired of right away. You can't play that shit all the time, or for very long. But the filler tracks endure. So for the producers here that might be something to keep in mind. Everyone always wants to write a 'hit' but that's not the only important thing.

Totally man. I completely agree, well said. If it's groovy and dancable, that works. All of the songs we hear can't be those memorable ones, because if every song is memorable and uber special, if they all get played too much how will they be special anymore if that's all that's being played? a true DJ avoids this naturally with excellent track selection.

Not sure if i agree,

i would rather look at the energy in tracks, or call it track class/blocks: you start laid back, build more intensity when DJ'ing along, built up anticipation, some full on and build down again.

But for every "track class/block" you should want to use on the best of the best, why play mediocre tracks if there are better available in that class?

And i think that's what seperates the real DJ's from the crowd. They choose excellent track for each phase of their set, still riding that wave of anticipation, but driven by energy, not by track quality.

A filler track could be very memorable.

Re: Are 'memorable' tracks bad for the EDM scene?

quote:

Originally posted by meriter Everyone always wants to write a 'hit' but that's not the only important thing.

My own taste is such that the big memorable tracks soon become quite invasive after a few listens, whereas as I can listen to a more subbtle kick n bass groove track many times without fatigue.

A guy on another thread here said something about such tracks being forgotton the next day but I'm not so sure.

People like Voris Joorn have been very prominent in Beatport lately with some very stripped back affairs.


I think dark and pure techno is making a comeback - anyone else sensing this?

Re: Are 'memorable' tracks bad for the EDM scene?

quote:

Originally posted by meriter You can't play that shit all the time, or for very long. But the filler tracks endure.

Oh really, now? Those filler standard conveyor belt tracks simply get replaced by others of the kind, while the good tracks stay in people's mind and that's what they associate you with, that's what they go to listen to, not some filler track.

Playing the track over and over again is a DJ's mistake, but even the most persistent ones will eventually stop spinning that record and go with the other things, then fast forward a couple of months/years, when he drops the tune again, people will recognize it and go ballistic.

If you calculate so much about success strategies, and let the outside factors influence your work so much, perhaps you should give producing a rest and "simply" start your own label and be a big boss.

quote:

Originally posted by meriter a lot of the small-time local performers here, who seem to have a niche audience of the same people every night

Kind of renders the thread irrelevant for 95% of the people.




Disclaimer: everything I said is IMO.

If i need to listen to 5 crap tracks, in order for 1 good track to make a bigger impact, i'll just walk, life's too short......

quote:

Originally posted by Raphie If i need to listen to 5 crap tracks, in order for 1 good track to make a bigger impact, i'll just walk, life's too short......

*slow clap*

quote:

Originally posted by Raphie If i need to listen to 5 crap tracks, in order for 1 good track to make a bigger impact, i'll just walk, life's too short......

Thing is though, the dj cant please everyone with every single tune, just because your not into the first 5 for what ever reason dont mean other people feel the same and Im sure that playing 5 crap tracks before a good one is not the djs intention when trying to make this "impact". Surely if its a good tune, it will make an impact regardless of what was played before it.

In the UK Hardcore/Hardcore Happy sets I listen (and glowstick/string) to, there aren't too many "filler" tracks that I hear. You have your cheesy remixes of Tune Up!, Styles and Breeze, Ryu Ryu, everything. Now I know hardcore is way different then what most/all of you listen to but still.

I like these sets. I don't listen to them nonstop, but I enjoy them and a considerable portion of the older hardcore scene do too. Plus these are also what give the rest of the EDM scene a giant blanket to outsiders of our culture. You can thank Basshunter and me for that :P

In the more underground stuff, if you can call house/dubstep underground anymore, I can see this making sense, but to the wider audience that doesn't listen to EDM much it's horrible. If someone isn't interested in a set they hear on Youtube they are 1 click away from leaving.

In person, go ahead with the suspense tactic I'd say, not many people (except Raphie and his comrades, I salute you!) will just walk out of a club or venue if they dislike what's being played.

Just IMO

Going out on a limb here, but different tracks are memorable to different people for different reasons.

I couldn't tell you the lyrics of any rap song to ever break a million in sales, but I know the lyrics/melody etc to dozens of tunes people have never heard of.

The better the track, the better the odds that more people will find it memorable. But again, personal preference will win out. Everyone likes different things for different reasons.

Re: Are 'memorable' tracks bad for the EDM scene?

quote:

Originally posted by meriter the filler tracks endure

I have to admit, I found this comment amusing. Yes, the filler tracks end up on all the compilations, and years later they reappear on the "trance classics" compilations.

Forget songs like "Flaming June", the filler tracks are the ones that endure...I must be listening to music totally wrong, I always seem to go back to the songs with memorable melodies...

Alright well it seems people are equating these kinds of filler tracks to mediocrity which is totally not what I mean. I'm not saying shit music is important in this sense. A track can be very good but still has a kind of minimal sound that doesn't burn itself into your memory in the same way as these anthems. Most of the time I end up liking that stuff better tbh. It's just the kind of thing that at peak time people will eat up, but the next time they are out and hear it again it'll still be fresh. Being wasted helps with that too, so encourage your crowd to get fucked up.


And hey, guy with the Flaming June comment: Most of us were sick of that like a month after the shit came out, what like 20 fucking years ago? Filler tracks endure in the sense that you get more life out of them, whereas you can hardly get away with playing shit like Flaming June these days. Classics are classics but it's like someone playing Stairway to Heaven at the bar, no one wants to hear it.

Maybe it's just me being dense, but I consider 'filler' as something mediocre by definition (as in yea, it's OK but meh...). I think you basically have Suck, Filler and Good/Great. To me, memorable would be a good or great song, otherwise it's filler/meh or just not my cup of tea. I guess if you get right down to it you can have a dozen levels from Master of Suck to Icon of the Genre, but if you like something well enough to move you, I'd still call it good/memorable. If it doesn't, it ain't good.

Just my opinion of course.

quote:

Originally posted by meriter Classics are classics but it's like someone playing Stairway to Heaven at the bar, no one wants to hear it.

People don't like hearing classic songs? I think you're confusing a small subset of producers relative to the vast majority of listeners.

Typical listeners want to hear the classic songs and melodies! Why do you think these songs keep being played on the radio, on jukeboxes, keep turning up on compilations? Have you checked out the covers bands in your area? What are they playing if not classics? In the same vein, how long did it take for "everyone" to get bored of Beethoven's fifth?

I get that you personally may be over some recognizable tunes currently. We all feel that way from time to time. But extrapolating that out to "everyone feels this way" is a massive stretch.

quote:

Originally posted by Normie The better the track, the better the odds that more people will find it memorable. But again, personal preference will win out. Everyone likes different things for different reasons.

You're causing my Correctitus to flare up again.

It's like having a good meal with a steak.

If your meal only consists of steak (which is clearly awesome) it sucks. However, mix some mash potatoes and veggies and red wine and you have an awesome meal.

Sorry, but this is a crap thread. And wtf does this have to do with production anyway? Unless the argument is that, as a musician or producer, we should be trying to write boring, forgettable, filler material in order to stand a chance of being played between memorable songs in a forgettable set by no-name DJs, it belongs in the DJ forum.

quote:

Originally posted by J.L. It's like having a good meal with a steak. If your meal only consists of steak (which is clearly awesome) it sucks. However, mix some mash potatoes and veggies and red wine and you have an awesome meal.

clearly OP is a vegetarian.

quote:

Originally posted by KilldaDJ clearly OP is a vegetarian.

Not true I even ate baby lamb today.

quote:

Originally posted by derail People don't like hearing classic songs? I think you're confusing a small subset of producers relative to the vast majority of listeners. Typical listeners want to hear the classic songs and melodies! Why do you think these songs keep being played on the radio, on jukeboxes, keep turning up on compilations? Have you checked out the covers bands in your area? What are they playing if not classics? In the same vein, how long did it take for "everyone" to get bored of Beethoven's fifth? I get that you personally may be over some recognizable tunes currently. We all feel that way from time to time. But extrapolating that out to "everyone feels this way" is a massive stretch.

Why? Because the labels and the money makers put the crap out, and people buy it, because they don't know any better. There are people who listen to music for music, and people who listen to music to be entertained with sound. That's why the same shit keeps appearing on the radio, and the radio is stagnant, a relic. The over commercialization of music and the fact that people don't know any better, that they are robbing themselves of wonderful music by liking what their friends like, what's popular at the moment. If something is popular, it doesn't make it good, it means that it appeals to more people which means it is accessible. Niche music is always better than pop crap, in my no so seemingly humble opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by Inner Sanctum Sorry, but this is a crap thread. And wtf does this have to do with production anyway? Unless the argument is that, as a musician or producer, we should be trying to write boring, forgettable, filler material in order to stand a chance of being played between memorable songs in a forgettable set by no-name DJs, it belongs in the DJ forum.

Crap thread now but didn't have to be. Perfectly good question. It would be good if people who have experience djing to a crowd or going clubbing discussed it more, because that's who this is RELEVANT to.

quote:

Originally posted by Evolve140 Why? Because the labels and the money makers put the crap out, and people buy it, because they don't know any better. There are people who listen to music for music, and people who listen to music to be entertained with sound. That's why the same shit keeps appearing on the radio, and the radio is stagnant, a relic. The over commercialization of music and the fact that people don't know any better, that they are robbing themselves of wonderful music by liking what their friends like, what's popular at the moment. If something is popular, it doesn't make it good, it means that it appeals to more people which means it is accessible. Niche music is always better than pop crap, in my no so seemingly humble opinion.

?

The original topic was about "memorable" tracks. Meriter mentioned Stairway to Heaven, I mentioned Beethoven's fifth symphony.

How did you get from that to "pop crap"? Why is Beethoven's fifth for "people who don't know better"?

I can understand your point if the discussion had been something along the (well-trodden) lines of "why do people like britney spears/crazy frog/another example of terrible (to some) but popular music?" (I'm not personally having a go at Britney here, some of her songs sounded quite decent in the nightclub where I worked for a while).

But the discussion wasn't about "bad but popular" music. It was about "memorable" music. At least as far as I can tell.

My favourite clubs are the ones where memorable tracks are played every month... The crowd generally really love to hear a track that they know, which is generally why top 40 clubs are so popular IMO.

I do know what you mean, that a very distinctive sound can wear itself out fast if it becomes a bandwagon. Sort of like the wobbly dubstep bass or the white noise sweeps of Berlin electrotech. But I think a well produced track generally gets people's atttention even more if its distinctive and well used. Well produced meaning here well paced and not cheesy.

quote:

Originally posted by derail Beethoven's fifth

Haha, let's not lose touch with reality here

quote:

Originally posted by meriter Haha, let's not lose touch with reality here

Many people aren't bored of Beethoven's fifth yet, even though it's memorable.

Even though you are "over" Stairway to Heaven, doesn't mean that many people aren't yet "over" it, and still prefer to listen to that song rather than some filler song.

As I said, I totally get that you're bored with a few memorable songs. It happens to all of us now and then. But to say that filler songs will "endure" for longer than classic memorable songs is a little bizarre.

If people create a memorable song, it may be played by the world's top DJs for a month, appear on a number of compilation CDs, then perhaps reappear every few years on a classic compilation.

If people create a filler song, it may be played by one or two top DJs (who knows), but it could also be played by only a handful of relatively unknown DJs around the world, who have "discovered" its merits and want to share it with their audiences. And these DJs will find that they can play the song over a longer period of time since their audience isn't also hearing the song in a number of other situations.

I guess I'm taking exception to the word "endure". They may "endure", in a very small and limited way, for a particular DJ/ club, for a while longer than some overplayed classic. But come next year, the classic song will still be heard here and there, while the filler will be relegated to a fond memory for a handful of people (though the memory will be hazy, since the filler song didn't really have anything memorable to it).

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