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How would you define morality & justice?

One of the biggest problems I find in any discussion involving morality, is that no one has any clear idea about what exactly morality is.

I also notice that all such discussions confuse morality with justice, leading to all sorts of strange contradictions.

morality -
mo�ral�i�ty   
[muh-ral-i-tee, maw-]
�noun, plural
1. conformity to the rules of right conduct; moral or virtuous conduct.

justice -
jus�tice   
[juhs-tis]
�noun
1.the moral principle determining just conduct.


with that being said, your question leads us into the realm of belief, which is a very dangerous thing.
most conflicts stem from differences in beliefs.

Morality: Zyclon Jay realizes he has none of it and hangs himself

Justice: he is leveled by a bulldozer in one final act of dying for his art

Poetic justice: bulldozer was operated by a Jew...

quote:

Originally posted by aNYthing Morality: Zyclon Jay realizes he has none of it and hangs himself Justice: he is leveled by a bulldozer in one final act of dying for his art Poetic justice: bulldozer was operated by a Jew...

Sad truth: unlikely that any of this will happen...

quote:

Originally posted by VDub Sad truth: unlikely that any of this will happen...

ja, everyone knows that Jews can't operate bulldozers- sheesh!

I think it's clear that neither "morality-in-itself" nor "justice-in-itself" exists. Such concepts are created, not discovered. "Morality", in my view, is an expression of the perceived conditions of preservation and growth, contingently encountered in the world by an individual.

CHOLA

"There's no right, there's no wrong, there's only popular opinion." Jeffrey Goines, movie Twelve Monkeys

quote:

Originally posted by clay moral: for the greater good. if something is bad for one, but good for two, then its morally acceptable. you can take it a bit further and use weight on it. if something is a little bad for one, but very good for someone else, then its morally acceptable.

So if we could enslave 30% of the population to make life vastly better for the remaining 70%, that would be morally acceptable to you?

That which can be measurably demonstrated to do no harm, even while having the capacity to benefit one or more parties.

quote:

Originally posted by VAR ja, everyone knows that Jews can't operate bulldozers- sheesh!

That's why we hire blacks and hispanics to do it for us. but we still own the bitch. And that's affirmative action in action...

morality & justice aren't real things. they don't actually exist. we just made them up, like everything else.

quote:

Originally posted by Blake morality & justice aren't real things. they don't actually exist. we just made them up, like everything else.

Same could be said about sanity, philosophy, psychology, logic, law, and mathematics.

Re: How would you define morality & justice?

quote:

Originally posted by mr.bison

Morality = you stop posting stupid shit
Justice = Sushipunk bans you for posting stupid shit

quote:

Originally posted by clay so tell me why my cat feels ashamed when he accidentally shat on the floor?

you have much to learn about cats

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker Same could be said about sanity, philosophy, psychology, logic, law, and mathematics.

That's why he said "like everything else."

Morality and justice are both definitely human constructs. We have no way to prove what is just or what is moral. It really just is popular opinion. It's impossible to prove there is some universal moral codes or shit like that. You can argue making the most people happy is good, but there is no way to actually prove that that is good or just or moral or whatever. It's all bullshit.

Sanity also fits into popular opinion. Philosophy is clever bullshit. Psychology can be bullshit (see Freud), but lately has been leaning towards fMRIs which can help actually prove things. Logic can be proven mathmatically. Law is definitely made up. Math isn't made up (I don't think, at least. I could be wrong). 2+2 always = 4.

Re: Re: How would you define morality & justice?

quote:

Originally posted by Meat187 Morality = you stop posting stupid shit Justice = Sushipunk bans you for posting stupid shit

quote:

Originally posted by clay so tell me why my cat feels ashamed when he accidentally shat on the floor? if moral didnt exists he wouldnt give a fuck knowing i would fix it.

because he knows that it makes you upset,
therefore he knows it is wrong and against your belief.

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker Same could be said about sanity, philosophy, psychology, logic, law, and mathematics.

exactly! all equally arbitrary.

we build imaginary boxes for ourselves, and then live and act within their confines.

the voices in my head tell me whats moral and just

Each is equally enforceable - as with all things - as the adjudicating party sees fit.

And belief is not a dangerous thing, provided you believe what the majority does.

quote:

Originally posted by Lews That's why he said "like everything else." Morality and justice are both definitely human constructs. We have no way to prove what is just or what is moral. It really just is popular opinion. It's impossible to prove there is some universal moral codes or shit like that. You can argue making the most people happy is good, but there is no way to actually prove that that is good or just or moral or whatever. It's all bullshit. Sanity also fits into popular opinion. Philosophy is clever bullshit. Psychology can be bullshit (see Freud), but lately has been leaning towards fMRIs which can help actually prove things. Logic can be proven mathmatically. Law is definitely made up. Math isn't made up (I don't think, at least. I could be wrong). 2+2 always = 4.

Kind of my point. None of the concepts directly relate to their intended scopes until you start testing and applying them. Pure mathematics has no connection to the myriad tangible systems mathematics can and does actually apply to. Fractals (See Meriter's Avatar) are an essential part of nature, in terms of complexity and how they function more as a rule that governs it, rather than as an effect, resultant from it. Psychology has its foundation in the desire to understand the correlation between thinking and behavior; the latter of which is more observable while having a definite cause in the former. While there have been many mistaken notions about what constitutes psychology, just as there have been about what constitutes disease, to argue that they exist only in the mind of the beholder belies their actuality. Law, while perhaps the only example of an imposed concept, functions because it is enforced and tested, as to its efficacy, based upon how it satisfies the requirements of the society it was authored to serve. In as much as medicine was invented to cure disease, law is the cure for disorder.

The whole problem I have with the argument was that it's only functional because it divorces the concept from that which it is applicable towards, thereby ostensibly invalidating it. To my thinking, at least, there seem to be our own psychological and physiological responses to the suffering of others that functions almost as a motivation, in the very least, for constructs such as morality and justice to such a degree that they actually inform such constructs.

fMRI's have no less established a link between the lack of an active pre-frontal cortex and the psychopath's behavior - that which we refer to as amoral. Whether morality and justice are thus implied (meaning that we've invented morality because it satisfies our biological imperatives for survival) or because they are actually more innately related to our physiological hard-wiring than we're aware of, I'd argue that they're less imaginary than Blake's argument gives them credit for.

quote:

Originally posted by Capitalizt So if we could enslave 30% of the population to make life vastly better for the remaining 70%, that would be morally acceptable to you?

How many Chinese and Indian kids are manufacturing our shit??

Kinda the same thing, no??

quote:

Originally posted by clay so tell me why my cat feels ashamed when he accidentally shat on the floor? if moral didnt exists he wouldnt give a fuck knowing i would fix it.

Cats don't accidentally go outside their box...

He was trying to tell you something...

quote:

Originally posted by clay yes like how to give them away to somebody who cares ive had it. its not my cat though, im just taking care of it as a friend is on holiday. its terrible, who can have cats fulltime??? sick people, thats who.

Lol there you go...

He was telling you that he didn't like you...

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