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break / build-up

This is the hardest part in the process for me. Making a strong, interesting and involving breakdown/build-up.

My gaps are mainly "structural". I simply don't know how to make a build-up, what source should I use, which effects should I apply, how to start off the breakdown, with what, which filters are commonly used?

I tried to make a build-up with some percussions and hats, but it sounded awful/delusional...
Tried to construct a breakdown, but I ended up with something scordino and not consequential.

Help me to start from somewhere please. Anything would be helpful: tuts, own productions, suggestions etc...

How do you deal with it? What is your way of doing it? Please share it here!

dont you get any ideas listening to music?

The purpose of a breakdown is to give the dancers a break, lower the energy of the track, and prepare the dancers for next section. As long as you do those three, there's really no particular rules...

Excess reverb and delay with a high feedback setting are common along with risers and long evolving sounds.

Generally the rhythm is "decelerated" so that there is little to no perceivable rhythm, so that when the track comes back in full there's a much bigger impact.*

If the sections before and after the breakdown are very similar, it might not be a good idea to actually put a breakdown in. General rule of thumb: the bigger the breakdown, the bigger the change.


*Sometimes true, depends on genre

quote:

Originally posted by MSZ dont you get any ideas listening to music?

Topic 86

Re: break / build-up

quote:

Originally posted by future_newbie This is the hardest part in the process for me. Making a strong, interesting and involving breakdown/build-up. My gaps are mainly "structural". I simply don't know how to make a build-up, what source should I use, which effects should I apply, how to start off the breakdown, with what, which filters are commonly used? I tried to make a build-up with some percussions and hats, but it sounded awful/delusional... Tried to construct a breakdown, but I ended up with something scordino and not consequential. Help me to start from somewhere please. Anything would be helpful: tuts, own productions, suggestions etc... How do you deal with it? What is your way of doing it? Please share it here!

the thing i hear day to day is basically import a track you like into your DAW and try and duplicate it, see where its hits are percs, drums and so on, add your own sound and go from there

Don't put a breakdown in for the sake of it. If you can't think of a good reason or idea for one, don't have one. A lot of producers think breakdowns are mandatory, that all dance music should have the big dramatic moment when the drums stop and the big melody/riff/hook/vocal/thing comes in and everyone puts their hands in the air. It really isn't necessary at all, and many of the biggest club hits of all time have no breakdown. Don't get suckered into thinking it's part of "the process". Nothing is more fucking boring than an overlong and overly predictable breakdown - it pisses me off as a dancer that I have to go through this tired routine again.

Beatflux raises a good point, that clubbers do need breakdowns every so often to give us a break, otherwise we'd die on our feet. It's best to put these at moments of transition - a short break early in your track before it gets going, or near the end of the track when you'd start to wind things down. That way a DJ can mix the previous/next track in and there will be a little bit of a breather moment before the set moves forwards. Again, this is not necessary and many successful tracks don't do this, but it rarely hurts a track.

Oh, and please do bear in mind that if you are going to do a "big dramatic mid-track breakdown" thing, it does not have to be rhythmless, it does not have to introduce a big main melody and it does not have to use a fucking snare roll (or a filthy bass drop, if you're making dubstep/dnb/electro house). It will probably be better if it doesn't have any of those things.

I really think creating a good track without a breakdown is becoming a lost artform. I love tonnes of tracks with breakdowns and I'm happy to hear them, but I also love when one doesn't have one and yet still works really well.

I've been listening to some of Liebs old LSG stuff, the unreleased album from 1999 and his tracks without breakdowns are absolutely top notch.

the best breakdown I did was in the Sean Tyas remix competition of Lift:

SEAN TYAS - LIFT (DJRYAN REMIX) by DJRYAN�

Break-Downs / Build-ups have always been kinda hard for me. So this was a tremendous leap forward.

Some things to try, like what was done in this remix.

IF you know the chords of the song (which you should) then have the chord progression played out along however long your break is. Then, attach a arpeggiator. Within that arpeggiator drop the time down to a fraction of what the main part is being played in. So, if your playing 1/16th sequences throughout, drop it to 1/8ths. Then change the instrument from something like a saw wave, to something organic, like, a piano or violin (as played above).

Then, over the top of that basic arpeggiation, add some strings, maybe playing the same chord progression. However, since its not arpeggiated, it should sound pretty decent.

Don't forget to add sound fx.

^^^ that advice is a bit.. specific, isn't it? That's one way to write one breakdown but it's not going to help much when it comes to writing them in general. not that it's bad advice, though

I think the breakdown is the most important part of the track (personal opinion, let's not get into an argument here) so I don't start working on anything until I know what the breakdown will vaguely sound like. If you write your tracks as you produce them, try having a chord progression/main melody written before starting anything else. That way you're not scrambling for ideas when it's time to force a breakdown into a track that, up to that point, wasn't made with one in mind.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Oh, and please do bear in mind that if you are going to do a "big dramatic mid-track breakdown" thing, it does not have to be rhythmless, it does not have to introduce a big main melody and it does not have to use a fucking snare roll (or a filthy bass drop, if you're making dubstep/dnb/electro house). It will probably be better if it doesn't have any of those things.

There's no point in reinventing the wheel if you can't come up with something better.

Structure is more or less set in stone with slight variations, so its more about how you fill up the track than where things go...

I love how you've got a quote in your sig encouraging people to come up with great ideas and then you make a post like that.

That quote encourages people to not lose focus on good songwriting while getting caught up in all the technical aspects of production, I don't see what that has to do with anything he said. Probably because it doesn't.

He has a valid point, OP said he can barely make a standard breakdown and you responded by telling him not to follow basic trance forms and structures. How does that help someone in his position? Especially your last paragraph which is just genuinely unhelpful, through and through.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I love how you've got a quote in your sig encouraging people to come up with great ideas and then you make a post like that.

Of all of the great dance songs I've listened to, 99% have an extremely predictable structure.

It's really more about the lead ideas and production of the whole track.

quote:

Originally posted by Kysora He has a valid point, OP said he can barely make a standard breakdown and you responded by telling him not to follow basic trance forms and structures. How does that help someone in his position? Especially your last paragraph which is just genuinely unhelpful, through and through.

Because it might be liberating to know that he doesn't have to use a breakdown, and that he shouldn't have to create a "standard breakdown" which just sounds awkward to him? Maybe it's helpful to a musician to say he shouldn't force his work to sound like something he isn't comfortable doing. Perhaps that might free him up to make more creative and interesting tracks.

But yeah, it's unhelpful to tell someone to break out of the mould and don't worry about forcing something into their music. This is why I shouldn't bother coming into this sub-forum.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Because it might be liberating to know that he doesn't have to use a breakdown

He does if his goal is "Making a strong, interesting and involving breakdown/build-up", which is what he's specifically asking how to do in this thread. He's not asking to be liberated and you come off as a bit preachy by assuming he needs to be.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Maybe it's helpful to a musician to say he shouldn't force his work to sound like something he isn't comfortable doing. Perhaps that might free him up to make more creative and interesting tracks.

..wow. How have you learned how to do anything with that logic? OP seems relatively inexperienced, he clearly wants to learn how to make better breaks, but he can't. So he's asking us for some tips and advice. That has nothing to do with "forcing" elements into his music.

I'm also pretty surprised you actually believe you'd accomplish more just sitting in your comfort zone and avoiding anything you're less than comfortable with, instead of forcing yourself to broaden your horizons and learn new things. Like, really fucking surprised.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J But yeah, it's unhelpful to tell someone to break out of the mould and don't worry about forcing something into their music. This is why I shouldn't bother coming into this sub-forum.

It's not bad advice in general. Directed at the OP in this thread, however, I don't see how you could think you're being helpful.

quote:

Originally posted by Kysora ...his goal is "Making a strong, interesting and involving breakdown/build-up", which is what he's specifically asking how to do in this thread.

And my advice is:

1. Don't use one for the sake of it.
2. Don't make a clich�d and predictable one.

And I stand by that. I will happily tell every inexperienced producer to never, ever copy a formula if they want to make interesting and involving music.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J And my advice is: 1. Don't use one for the sake of it. 2. Don't make a clich�d and predictable one. And I stand by that. I will happily tell every inexperienced producer to never, ever copy a formula if they want to make interesting and involving music.

How is that even on topic ? The guy wasn't asking how to make interesting, involving music, he was asking how to make a breakdown.

quote:

Originally posted by skyhunter How is that even on topic ? The guy wasn't asking how to make interesting, involving music, he was asking how to make a breakdown.

quote:

Originally posted by future_newbie This is the hardest part in the process for me. Making a strong, interesting and involving breakdown/build-up.

But he said breakdown, not music in general.

Because a breakdown isn't music, and completely different creative principles apply to making one, right?

It's just you're talking about music in a pretty broad category.

Anyways, back on topic. They way I think about my breakdowns is in terms of high frequency content. WHen I first enter my breakdowns, I usually lower the high frequency content, filtering down synths, filter effect sweeps, etc. As the breakdown reaches the climax (qlimax if you like hardstyle), I add in more high frequency content, usually by filtering up multiple items at the same time, like supersaws, white noise, percussion, pads, vocals, etc. You can also pitch up different synths, it's all about building up energy, and a great way to think about that is with high frequency content.

quote:

Originally posted by skyhunter It's just you're talking about music in a pretty broad category.

Are you trolling?

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker Are you trolling?

I just thought this was about breakdowns.

quote:

Originally posted by skyhunter I just thought this was about breakdowns.

Honestly, I think you're hair-splitting.

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