TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Production Studio
-- 3 questions about making a really decent sub.
Pages (2): [1] 2 »

3 questions about making a really decent sub.

Often I want a reall pure clean low bass, and don't want to 'spoil' it by adding a higher layer as I'm after a lot of separation between bass and other elements.


What method would you use to get this type of very low pure bass tone cutting through and audible on small consumer PC speakers?

I have tended to drive it through something like Voxengos free tubeamp.





SECONDLY - I find the software synths I have don't seem to produce a perfect clean subby bass. That includes Sylenth and DCAM synth squad.
I can hear artifacts and also pops and clicks (unless I really open up the attack and release which I often don't want). I have this contravercial theory that Cubase 5 is not good when it comes to low end.



THIRDLY - What synth has an incredibly short envelope so I can get a very short percussive sub bass? I am struggling with Sylenth and other synths set to minimal possible envelope time, as the sound is still too long when I want a fast paced repetive sub going on. I use Cubase gate to augment shortening the tone time but it doesn't sound right.

Re: 3 questions about making a really decent sub.

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Butler THIRDLY - What synth has an incredibly short envelope so I can get a very short percussive sub bass? I am struggling with Sylenth and other synths set to minimal possible envelope time, as the sound is still too long when I want a fast paced repetive sub going on. I use Cubase gate to augment shortening the tone time but it doesn't sound right.

If you hear clicking in sylenth you should open the release a tiny bit.
Also, judging from your strange arguments (cubase does not have a good low end) I can conclude that everything is just in your head. Any softsynth has a decay slider or knob which starts at 0 and does not make any strange jumps which you are implying.

Low pass and hi pass to attenuate the frequencies you want to push through and then use saturation to lift it in the mix.

Re: 3 questions about making a really decent sub.

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Butler What method would you use to get this type of very low pure bass tone cutting through and audible on small consumer PC speakers?

Ever heard earth-rattling subs from laptop speakers? Sub bass on small (PC) speakers won't happen.

Re: 3 questions about making a really decent sub.

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Butler Often I want a reall pure clean low bass, and don't want to 'spoil' it by adding a higher layer as I'm after a lot of separation between bass and other elements. What method would you use to get this type of very low pure bass tone cutting through and audible on small consumer PC speakers? I have tended to drive it through something like Voxengos free tubeamp. SECONDLY - I find the software synths I have don't seem to produce a perfect clean subby bass. That includes Sylenth and DCAM synth squad. I can hear artifacts and also pops and clicks (unless I really open up the attack and release which I often don't want). I have this contravercial theory that Cubase 5 is not good when it comes to low end. THIRDLY - What synth has an incredibly short envelope so I can get a very short percussive sub bass? I am struggling with Sylenth and other synths set to minimal possible envelope time, as the sound is still too long when I want a fast paced repetive sub going on. I use Cubase gate to augment shortening the tone time but it doesn't sound right.

A sine based bass with a complimenting kick. I cut 30hz and less on the kick.
Have nothing else happening below 150-200hz. Thats how you get a strong deep sounding bass. Then add abit of compression.

If you want it audiable on speakers you need a harmonic exciter on the bass, i use Rbass from waves I find it's really the best plugin for this.

I find Sylenth1 to be fine for this, but i tend to use the virus.To remove the pops clicks dont forget to add a little release on the filter and amp envelope.

Have made two sine wave basses.

http://www.mediafire.com/?z5hpjldyw3rfy21 (medium / big)

http://www.mediafire.com/?nah4yd9t3xb5v5t (a small one, almost plucky)


Tell me if one of the two comes close to what you're after.

In Cubase btw.

quote:

Originally posted by TranceElevation Have made two sine wave basses. http://www.mediafire.com/?z5hpjldyw3rfy21 (medium / big) http://www.mediafire.com/?nah4yd9t3xb5v5t (a small one, almost plucky) Tell me if one of the two comes close to what you're after. In Cubase btw.

Appreciate the efforts but no, this is nothing like what I'm after. You have sorta standard psy basses there.

I mean more like this track (awaits a certain someone to chime in with his usual 'thats nothing special, anyone could do it') after 1 minute or so;

Re: Re: 3 questions about making a really decent sub.

quote:

Originally posted by Julz A sine based bass with a complimenting kick. I cut 30hz and less on the kick. Have nothing else happening below 150-200hz. Thats how you get a strong deep sounding bass. Then add abit of compression. If you want it audiable on speakers you need a harmonic exciter on the bass, i use Rbass from waves I find it's really the best plugin for this. I find Sylenth1 to be fine for this, but i tend to use the virus.To remove the pops clicks dont forget to add a little release on the filter and amp envelope.

I always alter the amp envelope to minimise pops, but this then detracts from the percussiveness, but I didn't think to use a filter envelope, might give that a go.

R Bass sounds just what I want - can one buy this as a standalone, and without any particular platforms (you know like those damned elastic player things and what not that some products require).

I try and ansure nothing else is below 150 / 200.

Do you tend to have the kick peaking around 55 - 75 and the sub bass a bit higher?

Re: Re: 3 questions about making a really decent sub.

quote:

Originally posted by farris Ever heard earth-rattling subs from laptop speakers? Sub bass on small (PC) speakers won't happen.

Of course not, but none the less I do hear tracks that have a very clean simple bass, made around a low sine or similar, that IS audible on tiny speakers, by for example adding some harmonics and saturation. I don't always want to add another synth layer an octave up or whatever as sometimes I'm after a cleaner sound.

So the point of this thread is to see how people might approach this task other than 'add another layer, in'it'.

Re: Re: Re: 3 questions about making a really decent sub.

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Butler I always alter the amp envelope to minimise pops, but this then detracts from the percussiveness, but I didn't think to use a filter envelope, might give that a go. R Bass sounds just what I want - can one buy this as a standalone, and without any particular platforms (you know like those damned elastic player things and what not that some products require). I try and ansure nothing else is below 150 / 200. Do you tend to have the kick peaking around 55 - 75 and the sub bass a bit higher?

Maybe try putting a envelope on the pitch very slightly to keep that percussive pop or click.

Pretty sure you can buy at by its self, its just a VST and no longer need the iLok.
Not 100% sure thou as i brought a pack from them.

I dont look where what peaks at all, just judge by ear. And i dont eq my kicks unless i'm removing some annoying frequency.

What DAW do you use??? Logic has a pretty nice Harmonic exciter.

Re: Re: 3 questions about making a really decent sub.

quote:

Originally posted by Deillon Also, judging from your strange arguments (cubase does not have a good low end) I can conclude that everything is just in your head.

Hope your right on this. A pro siad on the anjuna forum you can never get a decent kick sound once it's inside cubase, and so far no matter what I've done the kicks end up with a wooden plasticky sheen, but I guess common sense dictates he and I are probably imagining it.

Re: Re: Re: 3 questions about making a really decent sub.

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Butler Hope your right on this. A pro siad on the anjuna forum you can never get a decent kick sound once it's inside cubase, and so far no matter what I've done the kicks end up with a wooden plasticky sheen, but I guess common sense dictates he and I are probably imagining it.

In the end you're right that everyone just says something, but I hear great crisp tracks from any DAW.

@Julz
Spot on, sine wave turned down two octaves and pitch with tiny decay gives a nice clicky subbass.

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Butler I mean more like this track (awaits a certain someone to chime in with his usual 'thats nothing special, anyone could do it') after 1 minute or so;

I have been under the impression that most of the artists that make this type of bass sound, use either pitched down toms tuned to the key of your track played through a sampler, or a second kick that plays a bassline role but is filtered down to not hear the click type sound, and the decay would most likely have to be shortened on most kick sounds to get that type of sound. I think I saw a tutorial on this type of sound, I'll have a look around for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noAWa1YNopQ

look around 4:45, I have seen others use tom type sounds and kicks before too. If this is even the type of sound u are looking for..... Minus the distortion he does to it.

quote:

Originally posted by Lucidity I have been under the impression that most of the artists that make this type of bass sound, use either pitched down toms tuned to the key of your track played through a sampler, or a second kick that plays a bassline role but is filtered down to not hear the click type sound, and the decay would most likely have to be shortened on most kick sounds to get that type of sound. I think I saw a tutorial on this type of sound, I'll have a look around for it.

It's a stock standard rolling bass line with reverb to add that thicker stereo image.
Don't try complicate things :P

umm, ok, it was just a suggestion. If he's looking for a sound why not try? Its called getting creative. Maybe it won't work for him but, what does he have to lose besides time spent. Which he does the same pondering these questions here anyways. I think its worth a try is all i'm saying. And for the record, its not that complicated.

No need to get defensive. He asked about the bass in the YouTube vid.

And I made a suggestion and you acted like the idea was blasphemy. It was just an idea....

quote:

Originally posted by Lucidity And I made a suggestion and you acted like the idea was blasphemy. It was just an idea....

I understand, but your suggestion was unfortunately not correct.

Re: Re: Re: 3 questions about making a really decent sub.

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Butler A pro siad on the anjuna forum you can never get a decent kick sound once it's inside cubase,

Do not ever trust his person again, seriously wtf is this? Can you get a great sounding tune, import it in Cubase, play it and it will somehow make it sound shit?? Magic Cubase summing algorythm shit-izer built in?
Some time ago Reaper guys did a lot of testing on major DAWs and the mixes all *nulled*. All DAWs sound the same.

UMEK and Marcel have told several times, they use kicks and toms for bassline's which they either pitch to key or use patches which are already mapped over an octave, then you can layer with sine subs for longer decay and thickness

umek !!!!!!

My answer:

808 Toms

Coincidentally, this just appeared on KVR. Haven't used it myself (and probably won't), but might be worth checking out.

http://bassgnomes.wordpress.com/gnomekick-vst-released/

(made in SynthEdit fwiw).

http://www.robpapen.com/subboombass.html

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.