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Startup Production Gear (NO BUDGET):
Hey everyone,
Posing the question as stated in the title. Looking for the ultimate small studio production gear. List below of the blow the budget outline based on my research and knowledge from a big name sound editing buddy who doesn't have a care for trance but is a great technical asset and mentor in my venture nonetheless. I have fiddled in logic for well over a year but never seriously and that's my DAW of choice moving forward if that effects the choice of kit. I am musical and capable on a wide variety of instruments notably the piano which is the only one ive carried thru with over the years (however I have never even touched a synth let alone a digi keyboard, so don't know how much that helps). I am looking to throw myself in the deep end with this. It's a long time coming and I have some mates who have DJ'd in the past keen to join me on production sessions + as stated before a sound tech who is very at ease with a host of equipment + terminology and is like a robot on logic. So backround out the way here is the proposed kit list:
>iMac 27", 3.4ghz I7, 16g RAM. (Already Own)
>Logic 9 (Already Own)
>ReFx Nexus2
>Avid Artist Control
>Avid Mbox Pro Artist Bundle
>Access Virus TI2 Polar
>*Advise on headphones and monitors
What the good the bad and the ugly of the above what else do i need to form a "limitless" fully fledged mini trance production studio (room acoustics and all aside).
Thanks so much and sorry in advance if you feel its a silly question. Please indulge me i am here to learn and the advice ive seen on these forums is the best, reason why i posted here. I work hard for my money and this is where I intend to throw a small chunk, my choice so try refrain from comments in that light
Can't help you towards the hardware bit, seeing as your going the mac route. But why the fuck would you want to buy fucking Nexus? Save your money, get Kontakt for fucks sake. Far better sample-player, which is what nexus is, and with a far greater selection of libraries, plus you can do alot more to the dynamics and texture of the sound in kontakt than you can in nexus.
Monitors? Hmm.. Really depends on the size of the room. And how limitless your budget is. If I were in your shoes I'd definitely go for a couple of Genelec 8050a's, or maybe even something from their mid-field selection. And a pair of headphones with a really nice and soft sound.
You already have the Mac and Logic. If you know fuck all, you have enough there to throw yourself into the deep end with for the next 3-4 years.
Just get a decent set of monitors and forget about buying a load of gear you know fuck all about.
ya i would stay clear of the mbox, you don't need the virus, artist control is not something you need, nexus2 is a waste of time,
you need monitors , an interface and a midi keyboard.
Ok leave the nexus battle out of it... I understand where you guys are coming from with your points but its a personal addition and no money needs to be saved on it, so lets throw Kontakt in there.
Besides that why would I get an alternate midi keyboard if a virus is on the cards and why an alternate interface if an Mbox is on the cards? Also as mentioned logic will be my realm and from my understanding and first hand "experience" (or lack thereof) in the soundies office it is the ideal control surface for working efficiently in logic? And please give examples of kit so I can actually research your alternate suggestions over the ones posted?
Its really not going to make you sleep any worse at night knowing a noob has a power set up that he can grow on and move forward. So please guys just indulge the title in fantasy land and suggest an ultimate, budget free, small footprint, refined, high end studio! Thanks
Talent. Looks like you're out of luck since it can't be bought. And there is no "battle" in regards to Nexus. It's simply a tool for people who want to escape sound design (which takes years to learn) and are willing to sound like everyone, those of whom are also too lazy to learn sound design.
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| Originally posted by TradeMark Ok leave the nexus battle out of it... I understand where you guys are coming from with your points but its a personal addition and no money needs to be saved on it, so lets throw Kontakt in there. Besides that why would I get an alternate midi keyboard if a virus is on the cards and why an alternate interface if an Mbox is on the cards? Also as mentioned logic will be my realm and from my understanding and first hand "experience" (or lack thereof) in the soundies office it is the ideal control surface for working efficiently in logic? And please give examples of kit so I can actually research your alternate suggestions over the ones posted? Its really not going to make you sleep any worse at night knowing a noob has a power set up that he can grow on and move forward. So please guys just indulge the title in fantasy land and suggest an ultimate, budget free, small footprint, refined, high end studio! Thanks |
Was waiting for someone to throw a "talent can't be bought" into the mix. Some people are touchy. You automatically presume because someone intends on using nexus as a small part of their arsenal that they are lazy and incompetent? Nonsense its a great tool not everyone has to be classed as the lazy noob tabbing away from nexus to a DAW thinking they have created a work of art.... That is not my intention.
Looney4Clooney! Thanks for the response that's what I was looking for! All power suggestions (especially the Klein and Humel nod, was looking at those) have actually checked out just about every item off that list in my research so I see what you going for! Why the polyevolver out of interest on top of a virus, they are different animals and said to compliment one another but in a minimalist approach how worth the space is it? Now maybe I should add in the fact that this is a startup setup i am after not in the sense of budget or hardware capabilities but in the sense of footprint... I will expand and soon most likely but for now I am not at the point of building up a studio or completely sacrificing a room in my house. Looking for an ultra refined, high end lets call it "Desktop" setup. Just out of interest why don't you like the avid artist control + mix for creation work in logic? They seem on paper and in person like the IDEAL tools?
Thanks!
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| Originally posted by Looney4Clooney well then. Apple display to have 2 screens SSD only , thunderbolt external for samples. 3 x G drives thunderbolt 4tb each mac mini running VSL ensemble for extra processing. interface : rme UCX Virus TI 2 Moog voyager rack DSI polyevolver 1000$ in room treatment Klein + Hummel O 300 D Waves Mercury NI synth collection Kontakt MeldaProduction bundle Spectrasonics RMX and Omnisphere Artist Control + mix Waves Alchemy Drum libraries Vengeance house essentials 1+2+3 FXexpansion Tremor+ synthsquade Fabfilter bundle Izotope Ozone+trash Reason 6 Live 9 Would cost about 15 000 - 20 000 to get a basic setup that is pretty good. IF money is really no object, I would build your own room. 100 000 $ should get you a basic custom setup. |
Well, I suppose I could have tried to be more helpful. To be honest. even some of the most successful trance producers, and I know several whom I chat with Skype regularly and have kept up with over the years even though I don't listen to trance, have just used monitors and something as simple as Reason. Someone who didn't even have proper monitors and only using Reason enjoyed tons of airplay by AVB, A&B, among other top trance jocks. So what you first should understand is that it's the passion, hard work, sheer talent and creativity that will give you the advantage over any ideal production setup in terms of "gear". If you want to focus energy on what you are going to make the music with, that's fine, but don't make the mistake of thinking that it's going to make or break anything. You might just end up with a bunch of expensive gear and realize you aren't any good at production.
If you want to touch on how well you will become at production, even with the best setup, just buy a pair of decent studio monitoring headphones, load up Rob Papen Predator, your copy of Logic, and one sample pack from Vengeance or the like and get busy. You might want to figure out if you even have an aptitude for it before you start trying to amp yourself up about how exciting and fun it is to build a studio. because honestly, regardless of how well you equip yourself, there will always be a guy with headphones and cracked copies of VSTs that will be leaps and bounds ahead of you. Honestly, it's just kind of annoying when someone first starts production and they obsess about what "gear" to get.
Evolve wise words and trust me I understand what you are saying and I get your point/concern! There is always going to be someone leaps and bounds ahead of you running half your gear... That's life! But he's not doing you is he? If that makes sense?
I want this setup as a gift/investment for myself! Who wouldn't want a new Beamer as a first car even though your neighbor who races professionally owns a beetle from Woodstock as his personal vehichle? Like come on it gets laughable at a point.. I am no fool and as with all things in the music game its talent, drive and passion that shines over each and every other aspect. I am under no illusions of adequacy bought upon by cool gear. Trust me.
I can afford the best, I am looking for a high end minimalist approach as far as the controls, interface and hard synth go and as for software its not going to kill any one to load up on the best.
Please guys just forget the "it's not the gear that makes the artist" speech and focus on this silly little setup of mine, let me worry about how much of a tool I am.
So please! High end, minimal approach, function like a champ on logic (which I am more proficient with than half the so called noobs I have seen online that you guys wanna class me with). And can someone please comment on the Avid stuff you guys clearly aren't the biggest fans
Fair enough, sorry to preach. If I had the cash to spend, I would probably splurge like you are, but you seem a bit more well off than me, as I'm a young man who just kind of parties, enjoys friendships and relationships, works and produces. I do have a career path but I don't really manage my money that well. I've kind of picked up a little and can look forward to spending several thousand dollars this year to embellish, the first time in a while.
This is what I would get:
An analogue tube compressor (there are many, and I'd need a lot of research and help from people here to figure it out). I would use this the same way I use software emulation of saturation/warmth like PSP vintage warmer.
A Nord Rack 2. Just a wonderful sound, especially for basslines. Wonderful envelope and filter. The first time I got to play around with one of these in the studio I was hooked. I would also consider a virus for leads and such, although just because of the characteristics of the sound they have, not solely because they are analogue. Juno also has some awesome synths. Unless you are making house where groove is paramount and you are playing the groove of a bassline or something on the keyboard, your piano keyboard skills will not really come in handy in trance production. The musical aspect of knowing how to play a keyboard will though.
You will want a great distortion plugin, Saturn is the best on the market at the moment. You will want a variety of VST filters, some that are more transparent and others that color the sound. If you want straight talk, the plugins that come with Logic are more than sufficient in terms of effects and instruments, but there are plenty of wonderful third party ones as well. Mix and match.
Monitors: there are so many to choose from, and since you have the money, this will open you up to some pretty nice options. The pros and cons are generally minute details that shouldn't interfere with making actual music.
Lastly, but definitely not least of all, your room needs to sound good. The last thing you want are psychoacoustics fucking up your work flow so that your music only sounds good in your room on your monitors. A little bit of well applied treatment will go a long way.
Aside from working in various studios, I am totally in-the-box and have been my entire 10 years working on music. That isn't to say I wouldn't love to have a nice tube compressor and a nord rack.
Skip Nexus, get Omnisphere.
You wont regret.
Furthermore, what you think is high end isn't really high end, it's just stuff.
A high end setup would have you spending $30-40k on monitors and interface and D/A conversion before you've spent anything on actually making a noise.
There are two things you should concentrate your money on first, and that's your monitoring setup (including the room you're working in) and workflow. Everything else is garnish.
As for Nexus, it's a waste of money whatever amount of money you have. It's really very, very overpriced and if you have something like a Virus (which is a good call as it covers both excellent soundsource and 'toy' status) you'll have basically the same kind of sounds anyway. And considering a Virus costs less than an expanded Nexus anyway.....
Virus also acts as a very nice keyboard/midi controller but I'd go for the 61 key version for obvious reasons.
Interface choice could be Apogee, RME or maybe even the UAD Apollo, the latter would give you UAD plugin capability if you desired.
Waves Mercury is a good call too. There are a lot of very good tools in there and if you wait until it's on sale (usually a couple of times a year) and go to Waves Universe instead of direct from Waves you'll be amazed at how cheaply it can be bought these days.
Get some room treatment. Go over to GIK and start reading up.
Monitors are a personal choice, but remember your ears are years away from 'hearing' how to mix. There's no shortcut to this and musician skills are irrelevant and non transferable to mixing skills for the most part. K&H, Event Opals, PMC or PSI are all good relatively high choices. Find a store where you can go and listen to them.
The Avid MC controllers aren't necessary, but buy them by all means as they'll look cool. Which we all know is important, no really.
One really important thing I've learned is to not go mad on plugins. It's totally counter productive. In addition to that Waves bundle it's probably worth adding the Spectrasonics plugins (Omnisphere/RMX/Trilian) and NI Komplete. With that you WILL have everything you'll ever need, and any additions may be for specific tools and perhaps an extra flavour here and there.
With a setup like that you have more than enough tools to create, mix and master a track that could potentially hit teh top of teh chartz. If that's what you want.
Don't sniff at the talent comments though. Consider yourself a novice and you'll pick it up a lot faster. Being a musician and having a wizard for a mate won't make your journey any faster. I know this because I was the same as you when I started.
thanks
That is a worthwhile thread. Seems to cover the topic and is interesting and a great help
thanks.
V.
Thanks tehlord, evolve and deillon!
Hardly sniffing at the talent comments I think I made it pretty clear that my call it conventional music training stands for close on nothing and I also underplayed my current abilities on Logic as I know iam around some pretty experienced cats here!
I understand your high end comment 100% so let me rephrase and call it "high end minimalist" if that makes any sense? 4-6 inch monitor range, single desktop, minimal room overhauls but the best of the best within that realm?
Also please can someone expand on the avid comments? I don't care if they not essential I care that they are potentially amazing tools for logic?
With the comments put forward computer unit and potential mm vsl slave setup aside how does this sound:
Avid Artist Control
Avid Artist Mix
Access Virus TI2 Polar
KRK VXT4 Monitors
Sony MDR7520 Headphones
Apogee Quartet
Logic 9
Waves Mercury
Spectrasonics combo of choice (not familiar with it)
How does that look? Anything essential missing and anything else that should certainly die like nexus?
Thanks
replace quartet with rme UC. THe quartet is overpriced. Either get the duet 2 or the ensemble.
But price aside is the Quartet a good unit?
Is the Duet2 capable enough with the proposed setup can add a breakout box at a later stage I needed?
The ensemble is choice number 1 but with the unit being discontinued and my country of origin iam going to have to get lucky with the distributor!
Thanks!
| quote: |
| Originally posted by TradeMark Thanks tehlord, evolve and deillon! Hardly sniffing at the talent comments I think I made it pretty clear that my call it conventional music training stands for close on nothing and I also underplayed my current abilities on Logic as I know iam around some pretty experienced cats here! I understand your high end comment 100% so let me rephrase and call it "high end minimalist" if that makes any sense? 4-6 inch monitor range, single desktop, minimal room overhauls but the best of the best within that realm? Also please can someone expand on the avid comments? I don't care if they not essential I care that they are potentially amazing tools for logic? With the comments put forward computer unit and potential mm vsl slave setup aside how does this sound: Avid Artist Control Avid Artist Mix Access Virus TI2 Polar KRK VXT4 Monitors Sony MDR7520 Headphones Apogee Quartet Logic 9 Waves Mercury Spectrasonics combo of choice (not familiar with it) How does that look? Anything essential missing and anything else that should certainly die like nexus? Thanks |
seriously all that and you're gonna go with krk vxt4's?! definitely take tehlord's advice: get a pair like the focals and get proper acoustic treatment. this will contribute far more to the final output of your music than say your avid controllers
also, from what i've heard, the avid controllers and almost everything in the same category seems to just muck up work flow for most people.
Understood on the monitors trying to skimp on footprint... With regards to the acoustic treatment and footprint maybe some bacround will help, how do I say this without sounding like Hannibal Lecter! My house is glass... Super minimalist, very open, passaged pretty much the only door is the front one brilliant f*cking acoustic environment...
I have a single spot that my soundie has focused on as the only real place to work with, its like a view overhang inlet, basically a glass jot-off from one of the rooms a single cube of glass with up, front, left, right and down view all through glass, back end completely open onto call it a man cave... Now that cube is being padded up on all ends and the station is being set up in there. I can't stress enough the need for a small footprint. An open ended studio isn't ideal but no matter where I place that's the situation iam in. Get a custom desk for free as a favor so that will help with fully utilizing every inch of space as its customized to my kit. Guess I could up to the krk vtx6'" monitors? What you think?
And thanks for feedback on Avid gear... Alot of the threads I have seen on people complaining about workflow are people who didn't learn on them and then are shocked when they all of a sudden switch to a rather complex and fiddly hard control unit! Anyones workflow would also be reduced. Anyone with 1st hand experience on the Avid capabilities in Logic and how much of a POTENTIAL asset it could be IF utilized to its full.
Sent an email to the local Apogee rep RE Ensemble... Lets hope!
Thanks again for all the great advice!
Use headphones then.
Why the obsession with KRK monitors as well? You've been given some excellent alternatives that aren't KRK's (which are far from being the best you could buy even in VXT form). If you want something that's small and looks cool then get some SE Munro Eggs. They'll still sound like crap in a shiny little untreated box though. But I'd still ditch the monitor idea and use headphones.
And get good insurance. If I saw all that gear behind just glass you would find it gone in about 22 seconds.
And whether the Avid stuff works in Logic to it's full potential is really up to you. It's a semi open system with customisable configurations and macros.
I think you need to do some reading up on acoustics, monitoring and why they're important as I don't think you want to hear what people are telling you at the moment. Having all the cool gear in a cool space isn't the recipe for a cool sound. With the funds you hint at having, I'd MAKE a space that worked even if it ruined the Feng Shui.
Tehlord you quite funny man...
I intend to use headphones a good amount of time thus the Sony's in the shoppping cart.
Anyway, I mentioned those monitors as those are the only ones I have had a store visit with + my mate uses rokits and swears by them. Take your word that there are better options which I will visit in person as I think this is best!
The room IS being treated as stated in my previous post it is just an open ended cube which isn't ideal but is definitely workable with good treatment from what I've been told. The shiny little box isnt visible to any sort of public and it won't be so "see thru" period once the padding is up.
No I do want to hear it trust me, that's why I posted! Iam just stressing footprint as much as I can to you guys... I can't ruin the Feng Shui there is literally no other feasible place with the layout of my house, plus the setup will compliment the Feng Shui... Now we talking alterations may as well build a pro studio out back? Ha ha now that's a bit much for a "noob".
You can't go wrong with these bad boys!
| quote: |
| Originally posted by TradeMark Anyway, I mentioned those monitors as those are the only ones I have had a store visit with + my mate uses rokits and swears by them. |
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