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Reverb question

Just wondering if anyone has ozone 5 whats the reverb like?...im going to buy a new reverb and im torn between getting the all in one plug ozone5 or artsacoustic which I know is excellent....I need a new limiter and reverb so I though ozone 5 may fulfill both but if the reverb isnt good for big trance type sounds then I wont get it.....thanks for your help....

I've never tried using Ozone's reverb in the capacity you're talking about. Ozone is primarily designed as an all-in-one mastering suite and its reverb is, therefore, designed primarily as a mastering reverb. In other words, it's optimized for smearing/gluing a mix and giving it a sense of being in one space. I wouldn't imagine that it would be good for big trance sounds, especially not when you compare to some of the other options that are available (and probably use less CPU per instance than Ozone would). Then again, people use things in unintended ways all the time to come up with cool ideas, so I wouldn't completely rule it out, but I'd say that you're more likely to find a good solution with something like the Valhalla reverbs and a decent standalone limiter.

Re: Reverb question

quote:

Originally posted by Seven Doxian Just wondering if anyone has ozone 5 whats the reverb like?...im going to buy a new reverb and im torn between getting the all in one plug ozone5 or artsacoustic which I know is excellent....I need a new limiter and reverb so I though ozone 5 may fulfill both but if the reverb isnt good for big trance type sounds then I wont get it.....thanks for your help....

I didn't recommend to use Ozone as a reverb effect as Cryo said it's not designed for that, it's for mastering purposes that means for example you will not have a good hall reverb with it but maybe you can have a good ambience reverb to "glue" a mix.


So I strongly recommend artsacoustic reverb plugin it's excellent!! or you can go for a convulition reverb like Altiverb and download for impulses but you CPU can be drained if you use various instances of it.

Regarding limiter, the Ozone it's pretty good however I don't like the sound at all (but that's personal taste), I had better results with Waves L2 and another pretty good limiter with mid/side options and very good for dance music it's the slate digital FG-X I have tried it in another studio with some minimal techno and with a rock band and it was excellent.

Thanks for the reply guys....I was thinkin about a standalone limiter and a seperate reverb....I was just thinking about killing 2 birds with one stone with ozone. ....but that makes sense....so Ive decided on artsacoustic now I just need a good transparent limiter under 200$....any you can think of? What the w1 freebee?....

quote:

Originally posted by Seven Doxian Thanks for the reply guys....I was thinkin about a standalone limiter and a seperate reverb....I was just thinking about killing 2 birds with one stone with ozone. ....but that makes sense....so Ive decided on artsacoustic now I just need a good transparent limiter under 200$....any you can think of? What the w1 freebee?....

MMMhhh not at that price, but you can get a Waves L2 ultramaximizer for $250 and it's quite a industry standard....

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Originally posted by Seven Doxian ...now I just need a good transparent limiter under 200$....any you can think of?

I'm a huge fan of FabFilter Pro-L. It's regularly $229, but if you're a student, you can get it much cheaper. If you're not a student, I can do the refer-a-friend thing and you'll get 10% off (I get $14 in credit), bringing it down to about $206. Demo it and see if it's worth it to you, and/or watch some of the vids on their website about it.

If you're not in a hurry, wait for the next Waves sale (they're very frequent) and you'll probably get L1 or L2 for well under $200 (I think I've seen L1`as low as $59). But, don't buy directly from Waves - there are several official resellers that will sell it even cheaper (e.g., Waves Universe, JRR Shop, Plugin Discounts, etc.).

If you don't mind a iLok, JRR Shop has the Flux Pure Limiter 3 on sale for $69 right now. That's a killer deal on a really good limiter. Of course, it would cost you extra to buy an iLok if you don't already have one, but it would still only cost you a little over $100 for the dongle and the software.

http://www.jrrshop.com/flux-pure-li...ownload-license

Just checked AudioDeluxe and they have Waves L2 at $79.

http://audiodeluxe.com/products/wav...aximizer-native

You'll need to create an account, log in, and use the coupon code "HAPPY2014" to see the sale price. And, don't worry, these guys are 100% legit resellers of Waves licenses. They'll send you the license code, and you'll register it directly with Waves, with full support, etc.

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Originally posted by cryophonik Just checked AudioDeluxe and they have Waves L2 at $79. http://audiodeluxe.com/products/wav...aximizer-native You'll need to create an account, log in, and use the coupon code "HAPPY2014" to see the sale price. And, don't worry, these guys are 100% legit resellers of Waves licenses. They'll send you the license code, and you'll register it directly with Waves, with full support, etc.

WOW!!! that's a real killer deal!

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Originally posted by beamrider WOW!!! that's a real killer deal!

Yeah, if you buy much software, it's worth registering with those guys, JRR Shop, Plugin Discounts, etc. Everything is discounted, even sale prices. So, when Waves runs their monthly sales, go to one of these resellers and it will usually be like 10-20% cheaper than the sale price.

@OP - if you haven't bought Arts Acoustic Reverb yet, you may want to look at some of those sites and see if they carry it.

Thanks for the reply guys...ill definitely check that site out....but while I got u here how are you guys setting up your reverbs ? Sends or inserts?....I messaged 4 trance legends and was pleasently surprised they all replied !!!! Sean tyas , Moonsouls, Arctic Moon and Daniel Kandi. ...they all put the reverb on the insert which surprised me....Kandi was the only one who wouldnt say but did tell me that it depends upon the DAW....Tyas also added he recommended mid side eq. ...All super nice guys very helpful....Arctic moon uses lexicon...Moonsouls was using Artsacoustic but found it too buggy and now uses warmverb....

I use reverb on sends and inserts, as well as on-board some of my synths. But, overall, I try to use as few as possible, so I always have two reverbs or so on sends.

Warmverb is a great reverb/multi-effect for trance. It's not designed to sound like the most realistic reverb, but if you want huge, dense, dreamy, reverb-drenched effect-scapes, look no further.

Well it depends on the track, usually I set 2 or 3 as a send for ambience and halls and maybe some "glue". And then for certain sounds or effects I use some reverb as inserts, but it depends on the project.

I used to work a lot in the analog domain where you need to wisely use your routing and hardware so I have the habit to set at least 2 Reverbs as sends one "short" and one "long" and then tweak them. Now working with electronic music and in the digital domain I also set 2 or 3 reverbs as I said before.

It's a good practice to use same reverbs withing sounds to have some coherency in the overall mix, so the listener feels that everything sounds in the same place.

But there are no rules for this you should try everything and will find your best results for your projects

I wouldn't get an all-in-one thing.

Can't go past the Valhalla reverbs or a convolution plugin with good 3rd party IRs.

+1 to Fabfilter Pro-L for a limiter. A good modern limiter will have all the features below.

1. Oversampling
2. Inter-sample peak detection (requires oversampling)
3. Look-ahead

Waves L1 and L2 are very limited (lulz) by todays standards.

L2 colors heavily, but that's not the worst. The thing destroys your dynamics even when apparently there is minimal gain reduction.

if you are a moron who doesn't understand what a limiter is for. Sure.

Illuminate me my brother.

quote:

Originally posted by Seven Doxian Thanks for the reply guys...ill definitely check that site out....but while I got u here how are you guys setting up your reverbs ? Sends or inserts?....I messaged 4 trance legends and was pleasently surprised they all replied !!!! Sean tyas , Moonsouls, Arctic Moon and Daniel Kandi. ...they all put the reverb on the insert which surprised me....Kandi was the only one who wouldnt say but did tell me that it depends upon the DAW....Tyas also added he recommended mid side eq. ...All super nice guys very helpful....Arctic moon uses lexicon...Moonsouls was using Artsacoustic but found it too buggy and now uses warmverb....

I am fucking amazed by the fact they all said they used inserts. May they're just lazy and have ample processing power to justify endless discrete inserts but it's really bad engineering practice to do it that way.

It's a good habit to get in to what Beamrider suggests; set up 2 or 3 reverbs on aux sends. It helps give a cohesive sound and saves on system resources at the same time.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN I am fucking amazed by the fact they all said they used inserts. May they're just lazy and have ample processing power to justify endless discrete inserts but it's really bad engineering practice to do it that way. It's a good habit to get in to what Beamrider suggests; set up 2 or 3 reverbs on aux sends. It helps give a cohesive sound and saves on system resources at the same time.

You tell em bro, you tell em...teach those newbs how to make their music!

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Originally posted by TranceElevation Illuminate me my brother.

A limiter should be catching the 0 crossing or near enough peaks. You should not really be doing more than 1-3 db of gr. the reason it has a bad reputation is people assumed that threshold fader was an adjust till phat styled plugin.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN I am fucking amazed by the fact they all said they used inserts.

I use inserts a lot. Consider this...

Drums with reverb send A.
Bass with reverb send B.
Drums and bass bussed with a compressor.

Your reverbs are now going to contain sound that no longer exists. Your only options are to use inserts or make a compromise and put one reverb in equal amounts on both instruments (send from the bus).

You'll get this problem pretty much any time you bus two different sounds. Eg. one instrument with delay send and another with reverb send.

What's the problem?

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm I use inserts a lot. Consider this... Drums with reverb send A. Bass with reverb send B. Drums and bass bussed with a compressor. Your reverbs are now going to contain sound that no longer exists. Your only options are to use inserts or make a compromise and put one reverb in equal amounts on both instruments (send from the bus). You'll get this problem pretty much any time you bus two different sounds. Eg. one instrument with delay send and another with reverb send. What's the problem?

I don't know what you mean by "Your reverbs are now going to contain sound that no longer exists". The sounds exist; they are just discrete and different from the combined drum and bass buss signal. You still have the aux returns to balance against the buss. If you're saying you want the return of each (i.e. each one to have a different reverb included prior to bussing) then that is EXACTLY the situation where you choose inserts instead of sends. You could also put stages of busses but it's more efficient to just use inserts.

What is the problem indeed?

Now having said this, this is essentially the exception that proves the rule. You can do 90% of your FX with sends. From what the OP mentioned about those producers, he's stating they don't use sends, which maybe is the case and that works for them for the reasons I stated but I find it lazy and if anything more time consuming - once you have your sends setup, you just dial it in, rather than for every track having to find a reverb, create, load up or tweak a patch just for that one instrument or sound. Also bad practice to get in to in case you ever work with an engineer or real studio or anywhere that actually has hardware....because you can't load up 40 instances of hardware can you?

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN I don't know what you mean by "Your reverbs are now going to contain sound that no longer exists".

What I mean is that the reverb will contain responses from transients that have been compressed (ie. they no longer exist).

Anyway, my point is that there's nothing wrong with using inserts. I generally end up with only 1 send, due to routing issues like this. Your recent posts on this topic read like "YOU HAVE TO USE TWO REVERB SENDS AND ONE DELAY SEND OR YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG". I do understand your point though.

I use an equal mix of inserts and aux tracks for various fx, shoot me

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm What I mean is that the reverb will contain responses from transients that have been compressed (ie. they no longer exist).

That's what I thought you meant but I couldn't tell from your antipodean pidgen English

Still, it's a pretty rare instance when you want the uncompressed but reverbed signal mixed with the compressed non reverbed signal, and as I said, that is the typical, albeit incredibly seldom needed exception to the rule.

I can also think of at least two other ways to route around it and least personally, if I felt I needed to change the dynamics of a sound (either by bussing together or discretely etc) then I probably wouldn't want the original uncompressed sound going to the buss as well, if you see what I mean?

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm Anyway, my point is that there's nothing wrong with using inserts. I generally end up with only 1 send, due to routing issues like this. Your recent posts on this topic read like "YOU HAVE TO USE TWO REVERB SENDS AND ONE DELAY SEND OR YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG". I do understand your point though.

Lol, I suppose my stance on this is a direct response to people like the OP who don't use a single send then wonder why their pretty good spec computer can't handle anything mroe than 15 tracks.

I use insets all the time, but time and place and right situation. It was a very seasoned engineer who pointed it out to me and it stuck; he explained it comes down to efficiency. Each time you use an insert, ask yourself if this could be an aux send instead. It saves you a ton of CPU headroom when ITB, and it's crucial when you're working with hardware for two big reasons, the first is that you only have a finite amount of hardware (you can load/magic up another lexicon 480 if you just have one physical unit) and the second is that having to patch and manage tons of insert points can get really time consuming. It's also bad practice as most hardware doesn't have wet/dry balance so an insert is 100% wet.

It's just my preference but I like to work ITB as if I'm in a hardware environment and that means if ever I have to be a real studio, I'm not going "how do you do this shit again?"

Again, I have no problem using inserts but they're meant for a specific function, and as the OP experienced, when you don't know the why or the how, your workflow is badly affected.

quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney A limiter should be catching the 0 crossing or near enough peaks. You should not really be doing more than 1-3 db of gr. the reason it has a bad reputation is people assumed that threshold fader was an adjust till phat styled plugin.

My brother, I was getting 0.5 db of gr and that think squashed completely the picture.

Even without showing any gr you can feel the thing working heavily. Colors too much. Not my taste.

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