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Muiltband Compression on the Master

Good afternoon trance addicts.

I've found mixing into a multiband band compressor makes my mixes feel glued together. You put so much effort into giving each sound there own space everything starts to feel disconnected and gluing the mix together with multiband compression just seems to help me get into the vibe of the track a lot easier.

However I seen a lot of posts recently from people suggesting that if your using a multiband compressor on your master that your mix isn't well balanced. These post have been on mixing fourms rather than trance specific. And im just wonder if a muiltband compressor only really used for mastering dance music?


I don't actually do my own mastering, and appreciate the secret to a good master is a good mix but have a rough (DIY) mastering chain really helps to give me a better feel for the tune as a whole.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts,

Never trust people who tell you "you should do it this way or that way".
I understand right now you're in a process where you need "confirmation" for a lot of things. But my suggestion is to be persistent and soon you'll trust your ears. That should be your only goal. Once you reach that you won't bother with what someone might think about your personal approach. At the end you'll realize it's subjective, and the responses you'll get are based purely on personal experience. We're all different.

This has been done to death on here over the years.

Here are some links of good discussions (crazy to see old those old regs in the first one).

http://tranceaddict.com/forums/show...99#.VNub__nF_ng

This one has a good explanation if it.

http://tranceaddict.com/forums/show...99#.VNuchvnF_ng

Essentially, (and not to be too obtuse about it) if you're asking the question "should I put a compressor on the master" then you're not ready to do it.

Mixing in to a compressor is the natural evolution for someone that is a good/great mixer, who always find themselves adding compression to the master after they did it.

So logically, the next step is to mix in to the compressor as you go.

Why could this be bad? Because it changes the way you mix; everything from stray peak management, to dynamics handling to colouration.

Therefore, if you aren't an extremely proficient mixer and can't fully understand from a conceptual point of view what that mix would be like without the compressor on the master, then you shouldn't add one.

If you've been mixing for years, always end up adding compression to glue your parts together doing so has literally got to the point of mindless repetition, then you're ready.

Personally, I just don't understand people's fascination with wanting to make a track mastered by yourself. It's a nuanced skillset required for truly great mastering, and that doesn't even start the discussion on the level of equipment needed.

Just mix as well as you can and pay the $20/$50/$100/$1k to get it properly mastered.

as ever...if it sounds good then no problem.

If you think your track sounds better with MB compression than without, then go for it

thanks for the replys guys, very helpful.

Just out of interest who do you guys recommend for mastering? I've heard Mark Sherry masters a lot of guys stuff on the scene at the minute. He really the only person I know of that would specialize in mastering trance.

Raphie =O)

I doubt he can afford someone like Raphie.

dont worry about Mastering - worry about Mixing

quote:

Originally posted by Euginamusic Just out of interest who do you guys recommend for mastering?

Well, here's the problem you're about to have. Any ME worth his salt is going to want you to send him a mix that doesn't have any major processing on the master buss. Once you remove that MB compressor band-aid from your master, you're probably going to have a pretty shitty mix that the ME won't be able to save. So, you're better off killing the MB comp now and fixing your mix before sending it to an ME.

quote:

Originally posted by TranceElevation I doubt he can afford someone like Raphie.

Depends for what and in what orifice. Snare Tom flam snare tom then bigger Tom then bigger Tom kick and splash choke.

@DJ RANN thanks for your reply I got reading the older post you provided the link to but they seem to be talking about normal compression.

This post was more aimed the use of multiband compression on the master.

It just seems to glue everything together so much better as it reacts differently to different freq bandwidths.

cryophonik:

"Once you remove that MB compressor band-aid from your master, you're probably going to have a pretty shitty mix that the ME won't be able to save. So, you're better off killing the MB comp now and fixing your mix before sending it to an ME."

Very good point, noted. Thanks

If you make a distinction between mixing and mastering which I don't think you have to, then yes, a multiband serves no purpose other than to fix things you fix at earlier stages.

But other than a particular perspective and skill set, mastering today is mixing sent to a bus which could be done in the mix.

Your answer depends more on philosophy than anything else. If the mastering engineer is usong it for anything that isn't technical, that would b an artistic call and he has stopped mastering and started mixing. Most do both because most were great mixing engineers and care more about the end result than their actual job. A mastering engineer retained by Decca would look at you with absolute contempt if you even said the word . He is probably just senile from old age and the good days when they got to wear white over coats.

Master _ Empty

quote:

Originally posted by Euginamusic @DJ RANN thanks for your reply I got reading the older post you provided the link to but they seem to be talking about normal compression. This post was more aimed the use of multiband compression on the master. It just seems to glue everything together so much better as it reacts differently to different freq bandwidths.

Well multiband compression is just compressing different frequency bands - it's essentially the same thing, just dealing with with compression on the basis of it's frequency.

The pont is about mixing in to a compressor, and the same adage applies whether you're doing it with a multiband or not. If anything, multiband compressors in the capacity you're talking about, is even more the domain of a mastering engineer so again, if you have to ask the question, you really shouldn't be doing it.

quote:

Originally posted by that Pikey If you make a distinction between mixing and mastering which I don't think you have to, then yes, a multiband serves no purpose other than to fix things you fix at earlier stages.

I think you should make the distinction though; Mastering costs less than a martini these days so why bohter trying to fudge it yourself? Especially when there's a danger that you might be missing things in the mix as you go because you're mixing in to a mastering chain.

And if you submit to a label and they don't like the master and say "could you just remove that compressor on the master" then you'll end up more fucked than dropping a rohypnol on your way to pride.

quote:

Originally posted by that Pikey But other than a particular perspective and skill set, mastering today is mixing sent to a bus which could be done in the mix.

True, but that's why I say you really have to know what you're doing, as if you know what you're missing by putting it on your chain vs not.

It's like that score engineer we both know who can mix in stereo on a 5.1 setup. He knows so innately how everything in stereo should sound that his brain can compensate for the incorrect placement of the speakers (and a discrete sub) in the 5.1 configuration.

If you know exactly what it will sound like without it, then that's the point that you mix with it.

Re: Muiltband Compression on the Master

i use mbcomps on the master....

lol, fuck it, just slap Ozone on the master and profit.

Keep fighting the good fight, Rann!

This quote from Armin sums it up pretty well

Although a lot of electronic music producers seem tempted to master their own tracks, Armin is cagey about following this trend. "I'm too insecure about it,� he admits, "so I leave it up to a mastering engineer.� He's also disinclined to mix through mastering‑style multi‑band processors. "The problem with multi‑band compression over the main outputs is that it usually clogs up the mix very fast. I get sent lots of promos, and now all these kids are using multi‑band compression to get their music to sound like my radio show. But that goes through a broadcast compressor, and if you heard it that way in a club you'd walk out of the club a half hour later screaming because there's no dynamics in there. It's really important to have some dynamics left.

"So we don't really use compression in that way. If we use a compressor we use it for sound design rather than for the overall mix. For example, I really like the Wave Arts multi‑band dynamics plug‑in � you can put some little noise in there and it really pulls out a lot of information. Using compression to create the ducking effect on a bass line is really important too, to give the kick drum and the bass space. We do a lot of side‑chaining.�

You know that'a actually a good point that most people forget; When you listen to radio shows or podcasts, you're hearing broadcast compression - not real compression of the tracks. The Octo compressors they use for a radio have a serious ratio, and unless you're doing it for artistic effect, you'd never do that to you track.

If you did, if it ever got played on radio, it would go through another round of compression which will sound even worse once it ends up as a soundcloud stream or lossy 128 mp3. Nice.

Produce for clubs. That's why the call it dance music after all.

Whoa I gave it a try, i'm def keeping it there. Everything is like glued togethar. Is there a specific compressor for master channels?

Myabe "The Glue" from Cytomic. I'd like to hear some opinions on it.

quote:

Originally posted by TranceElevation Myabe "The Glue" from Cytomic. I'd like to hear some opinions on it.

But I need some thing like super glue..and 250 an up.

Does it sound good > proceed. Being open and trying new things, comparing results is the best way to go on about it imo. The best part about making music is that there are no rules. A lot of people go on about with complex master mixing chains, and there are some that use nothing, some just a limiter.

quote:

Originally posted by Robotrance can someone tell me whats the point of master compression again? thanks.

if you mean full band master bus compression then it can make the track seem more glued together and pump as the kick will drive the compressor, its very easy to over-do it tho

quote:

Originally posted by evo8 its very easy to over-do it tho

Yep, I usually have it so so the needle on the meter is just slightly ticking (about 2db in gain reduction so not much at all).

I never start off with it on the master, but I always end up putting it on down the line, same with a limiter.

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