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Israel/palestine - USA?

If george bush is so willing to right all the wrongs of the world(iraq) then can I ask why the fuck he doesn't do something about the situation between israel and palestine hmmmmmmmmm, It seems there is a bit of a double standard going on here.

What do you want the US to do?

quote:

Originally posted by cap What do you want the US to do?

cut funding to Israel until some sort of peace deal is brokered........
you see how fast Sharon gets to those peace talks when Bush pulls the plug on that $3 billion

quote:

Originally posted by Az cut funding to Israel until some sort of peace deal is brokered........ you see how fast Sharon gets to those peace talks when Bush pulls the plug on that $3 billion

or maybe he goes the other way after the US loses its ability to exert pressure over Israel....

Why not let the middle east solve their own problems? I honestly don't give a fuck if they are stupid enough to kill each other off.

quote:

Originally posted by Az cut funding to Israel until some sort of peace deal is brokered........ you see how fast Sharon gets to those peace talks when Bush pulls the plug on that $3 billion

How comes it's solely the Israeli government's responisibility to reach such an agreement?

quote:

Originally posted by oDrori How comes it's solely the Israeli government's responisibility to reach such an agreement?

Because the Israeli Government are the ones with all the power, and the moral responsibility to find a solution for the problems they've created.......

quote:

Originally posted by Az Because the Israeli Government are the ones with all the power, and the moral responsibility to find a solution for the problems they've created.......

that really doesn't clarify anything. the truth is that Sharon refuses to deal with Arafat because Arafat is a known terrorist. Israel has simply stated they aren't gonna negotiate while they continue to send suicide bomberes over. as soon as you give into terrorism, you sacrifice the legitimacy of your government and the problem only gets worse and terrorsits (like Arafat) think they can bully you just as long as they threaten continue attacks

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus or maybe he goes the other way after the US loses its ability to exert pressure over Israel....

that wouldn't happen either... the only reason why Israel stands a chance is because of our funding and us giving them our equipment and technology like az said. if we really wanted to, we could get israel to do whatever we wanted, we're just not prepared to make the step of threatening to cut funding cuz it would allow the arab world to basically run them over. the tricky thing is that Israel has nukes, so we want to keep them stable as to avoid a more volatile situation

quote:

Originally posted by stringfelowhawk that really doesn't clarify anything. the truth is that Sharon refuses to deal with Arafat because Arafat is a known terrorist. Israel has simply stated they aren't gonna negotiate while they continue to send suicide bomberes over. as soon as you give into terrorism, you sacrifice the legitimacy of your government and the problem only gets worse and terrorsits (like Arafat) think they can bully you just as long as they threaten continue attacks

thats fucking stupid........
you don't get anywhere by saying he's a terrorist, i'm not speaking to him blah blah blah
Look at the Northern Ireland situation, the leader of the political party Sinn Fein is a known IRA terrorist, that didn't stop Blair, Clinton and the gang going over and negotiating Cease fires etc....
and now nearly all terrorist organisations are disarming.....
If thats the reason that Sharon isn't negotiating he's a fucking idiot, and you can quote me on that one

quote:

Originally posted by Az thats fucking stupid........ you don't get anywhere by saying he's a terrorist, i'm not speaking to him blah blah blah Look at the Northern Ireland situation, the leader of the political party Sinn Fein is a known IRA terrorist, that didn't stop Blair, Clinton and the gang going over and negotiating Cease fires etc.... and now nearly all terrorist organisations are disarming..... If thats the reason that Sharon isn't negotiating he's a fucking idiot, and you can quote me on that one

i didn't say it was right, i am just stating what the situation is.

quote:

Originally posted by stringfelowhawk i didn't say it was right, i am just stating what the situation is.

and I was stating that situation is fucking stupid, and Sharon needs to be taken outside and given a slap........

Americans will probably continue supporting Israel because of the strong Jewish lobby in States.

the US needs to leave their nose outta all this. This is how you get more terrorists after you i dont understand why the US government wants to jeopardize their people's lives for so called "world peace"

quote:

Originally posted by Az Because the Israeli Government are the ones with all the power, and the moral responsibility to find a solution for the problems they've created.......

See now, don't the Palestinians who support terror (Don't claim there aren't any) hold any moral responsibility?
"Problems they've created" - http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...&threadid=87353

Also, since we need to have someone to sort this with (unless you want us to sign a one-sided agreement), the representive should negotiate with us and there are terms for that negotiation. The matter of Israel fighting terror instead of Arafat has been discussed.

Please read the article mentioned in the link. I know you probably can't be arsed to, but try harder please.

quote:

Originally posted by stringfelowhawk that wouldn't happen either... the only reason why Israel stands a chance is because of our funding and us giving them our equipment and technology like az said. if we really wanted to, we could get israel to do whatever we wanted, we're just not prepared to make the step of threatening to cut funding cuz it would allow the arab world to basically run them over. the tricky thing is that Israel has nukes, so we want to keep them stable as to avoid a more volatile situation

Should I bow down to you then?
Seriously, you couyld have phrased this as if you were right here on earth with the rest of us.
We got along on our own at difficult times (even more difficult than these) and we are currently in a poor financial state which the US kindly agrees to help. That's right, we would never not survive without the aid of the US (and other countries as well), and as mentioned in recent threads (to my great sorrow), the us would not be as it is if it weren't for the French, and France would not be as it is without the US and so on and so forth... Some people on this board are too proud to see that we all depend on each other at one time or another.

We have nukes (We aren't nearly as strong as the US, and possibly the North Korean and Afghan/ Indian), we will not use them as far as I know. We are not under such an extreme government that we will deploy weapons of mass destruction against a country. That shows a little ignorance and arrogance on your side (I could be wrong and you could be misunderstood, but that's a strong impression I've recieved from your post).

quote:

Originally posted by oDrori Should I bow down to you then? Seriously, you couyld have phrased this as if you were right here on earth with the rest of us. We got along on our own at difficult times (even more difficult than these) and we are currently in a poor financial state which the US kindly agrees to help. That's right, we would never not survive without the aid of the US (and other countries as well), and as mentioned in recent threads (to my great sorrow), the us would not be as it is if it weren't for the French, and France would not be as it is without the US and so on and so forth... Some people on this board are too proud to see that we all depend on each other at one time or another. We have nukes (We aren't nearly as strong as the US, and possibly the North Korean and Afghan/ Indian), we will not use them as far as I know. We are not under such an extreme government that we will deploy weapons of mass destruction against a country. That shows a little ignorance and arrogance on your side (I could be wrong and you could be misunderstood, but that's a strong impression I've recieved from your post).

I think you did misunderstand me, let me clarify. I didn't mean to sound like I am an American elitist at all. I was simply saying that militarily, the Israel's really do depend on the US. Although Israel probably has the most fearsome soldiers in the world, you can only do so much when you're in a region where so many of your neighbors are against you. Also, I'm aware that the Jewish people are the most resilient in the history of the world and have faced adversity before
It's just a fact that Israel depends on us, just as we have on others during our founding. I don't expect any favors returned because I think it's good that we support people who are faced by aggression from others.

And I don't think Israel would use unkes liberally but imagine this scenario. Say the US gets tired of dealing with the whole problem in Palestine and we withdrawl our support and funding and say that we would let the people in the region determine their own fate. I doubt it would take long for an Arab coalition to form and attack Israel, probably organized by the PLO. Israel would definitely put up a strong fight, but realistically it could only last so long before they were overwhelmed by the efforts of muli-lateral force. I mean Napoleon was a bad ass but as soon as they formed the 6th Coalition against him he didnt stand a chance. What would Israel do then? If I lived in Israel, I would hope that they would use the possibilities of nukes as a deterant from any such attack.

Make sense?

quote:

Originally posted by stringfelowhawk I think you did misunderstand me, let me clarify. I didn't mean to sound like I am an American elitist at all. I was simply saying that militarily, the Israel's really do depend on the US. Although Israel probably has the most fearsome soldiers in the world, you can only do so much when you're in a region where so many of your neighbors are against you. Also, I'm aware that the Jewish people are the most resilient in the history of the world and have faced adversity before It's just a fact that Israel depends on us, just as we have on others during our founding. I don't expect any favors returned because I think it's good that we support people who are faced by aggression from others. And I don't think Israel would use unkes liberally but imagine this scenario. Say the US gets tired of dealing with the whole problem in Palestine and we withdrawl our support and funding and say that we would let the people in the region determine their own fate. I doubt it would take long for an Arab coalition to form and attack Israel, probably organized by the PLO. Israel would definitely put up a strong fight, but realistically it could only last so long before they were overwhelmed by the efforts of muli-lateral force. I mean Napoleon was a bad ass but as soon as they formed the 6th Coalition against him he didnt stand a chance. What would Israel do then? If I lived in Israel, I would hope that they would use the possibilities of nukes as a deterant from any such attack. Make sense?

That's the rephrasement I was hoping for It pretty much matches the view of myself too. We indeed depend militarilly on the US, not that we couldn't defencd ourselves but as you said, the attackers would indeed have an overwhelming advantage in numbers.

P.S. Sorry for the burst out

quote:

Originally posted by oDrori That's the rephrasement I was hoping for It pretty much matches the view of myself too. We indeed depend militarilly on the US, not that we couldn't defencd ourselves but as you said, the attackers would indeed have an overwhelming advantage in numbers. P.S. Sorry for the burst out

it's cool

quote:

Originally posted by vmc Americans will probably continue supporting Israel because of the strong Jewish lobby in States.

although i dont know you and im not meaning to accuse you of it, but thats borderline anti-semitism... reason being is if we look at that statement, logically and rationally we can disprove it.
the muslims by population in the US out number the jews by a large precentage, thus they should be the ones having a strong lobby in support of arab nations. thus, the reason america supports israel is not based on the fact of jewish support

quote:

Originally posted by stringfelowhawk I think you did misunderstand me, let me clarify. I didn't mean to sound like I am an American elitist at all. I was simply saying that militarily, the Israel's really do depend on the US. Although Israel probably has the most fearsome soldiers in the world, you can only do so much when you're in a region where so many of your neighbors are against you. Also, I'm aware that the Jewish people are the most resilient in the history of the world and have faced adversity before It's just a fact that Israel depends on us, just as we have on others during our founding. I don't expect any favors returned because I think it's good that we support people who are faced by aggression from others. And I don't think Israel would use unkes liberally but imagine this scenario. Say the US gets tired of dealing with the whole problem in Palestine and we withdrawl our support and funding and say that we would let the people in the region determine their own fate. I doubt it would take long for an Arab coalition to form and attack Israel, probably organized by the PLO. Israel would definitely put up a strong fight, but realistically it could only last so long before they were overwhelmed by the efforts of muli-lateral force. I mean Napoleon was a bad ass but as soon as they formed the 6th Coalition against him he didnt stand a chance. What would Israel do then? If I lived in Israel, I would hope that they would use the possibilities of nukes as a deterant from any such attack. Make sense?

Palestine? Where is that again???
You know of a different universe out there, or are you refering to Palestine, Texas??
I'm confused!

quote:

Originally posted by melech_mike Palestine? Where is that again??? You know of a different universe out there, or are you refering to Palestine, Texas?? I'm confused!

Not sure if you're trying to be a smart ass or what but I'll assume you weren't and spare the criticisms and just give you a definition from an encyclopedia

Palestine...historic region, the extent of which has varied greatly since ancient times, situated on the eastern coast of the Mediterranean Sea, in southwestern Asia. Palestine is now largely divided between Israel and the Israeli-occupied territories, parts of which are self-administered by Palestinians.

Does that clarify it for you??

quote:

Palestine...historic region, the extent of which has varied greatly since ancient times, situated on the eastern coast of the Mediterranean Sea, in southwestern Asia. Palestine is now largely divided between Israel and the Israeli-occupied territories, parts of which are self-administered by Palestinians.

So your telling me there is such a place that exists today? and that its actually just seperated into two parts???
PALESTINE is:
1) ISRAEL
2) PA
???????????????????????????????????????????

I would like to highly disagree with you stringfelowhawk!
Please make sure this is what you mean before we get into discussion about how wrong you are!

And the 'occupied territories' are actually 'disputed lands'!
I could argue that Arabs (or so called 'palestinians') are occupying my land just the same that they argue their case!

On a side note, this is so typical of how people hate the USA for not doing anything in one situation and then they hate the USA again when we try to resolve a problem, ala Iraq.

In the eyes of most people, the USA will never be able to make them satisfied, they will always complain. This is because the USA is the most powerful country in the world. Honestly, it would almost be nice for the USA to not have that responsibility, but that's the way it is. I'm just happy that its the USA and not sompleace like N. Korea or Iraq that is the lone superpower in today's world - try and imagine what would happen if that power were abused.

quote:

Originally posted by melech_mike I could argue that Arabs (or so called 'palestinians') are occupying my land just the same that they argue their case!

you could
you'd be wrong
but thats never stopped you before

Lick IT!

Sorry AZ... dont want to get you upset at me again. would be a terrible tragedy to lose a 'friend' like you!

TA's, Az says i'm wrong, as the leader of the board he must always be right!
He is a true Ta and should be well repected and bowed down to whenever you come face to face with him!
Dont disobey him, for her will cast his wrath against you!

P..P..Please dont kill me Az, your always right.

*the drama continues...*











I'm feelin' an inch in my ass... Az, care to scratch it with your tongue for me! Hey, what are friends for!

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