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The tooth argument is a prime example of information that can be interpreted by either side to justify their decision.

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Originally posted by djhaziel Not true humans lack many enzymes and acids that carnivores animals do , in order to have a proper degradation of animal protein such as meat . Also Our teeth resemble more, the teeth of an animal that eats veggies. Incisors are not only just cut , but just the same as the canines their major job is to guide our occlusion through a proprioceptive system + they are not nearly as sharp as the teeth of a carnivore animal.

That's because we are omnivorous, like many apes and like many mammals.

here is my evidence.

Its further emphasized on page 2 of the article

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...human_diet.html

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Lucas argues that the mechanical process of chewing, combined with the physical properties of foods in the diet, will drive tooth, jaw, and body size, particularly in human evolution.

This is in reference to herbevores obviously, since carnivores do not chew. Thus the athrophy of jaw size correlates to the need to chew less, the need to eat less plants and more meat. (you have to chew plants, you don't chew raw meat).

furthermore...

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Essentially, by cooking our food, thereby making it softer, we no longer need teeth big enough to chow down on really tough particles. By using knives and forks to cut food into smaller pieces, we no longer need a large enough jaw to cram in big hunks of food.

As far as i know, early humans mainly cooked meat on the fire. If you find anything else, please share your references.

More calories less volume = more time to do shit. We aren't brontosaurs' spending 99% of our waking hours grazing just to meet daily dietary requirements.

Think about calorie consumption and the time it would take to meet your daily requirements based on plants available to you in a forest.

Now you can take a small percentage of that volume and get the exact same dietary benefits eating meats.. Hence a period that allowed for free time and mind development.

omega 6 can be found in poultry and 3 in fish.

lets not forget the social development hominids gained through organized hunting.

The end result is as follows.

Humans evolved from earlier primates, hominids

These hominids hunted ate meat and cooked it.

We are a product of those hominids.

Thus we evolved to eat meat.

If we didn't eat meat then ..

GUESS WHAT?!

CONSEQUENCES WOULD NEVER BE... THE SAME!

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Originally posted by Lews GOTTA GET MY FLAXSEED ON SON

chew it.. or it just filters out of your system. I know because one time i mixed half a cup of flaxeed in water.. then drank it. I pooped pure flaxseed.

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Originally posted by Lews Under organic production, the use of conventional non-organic pesticides, insecticides and herbicides is greatly restricted and saved as a last resort

Restricted, but not eliminated Life for life, im betting theres more grasshoppers killed each year to preserve some plants then there are cows, pigs and horses killed to make delicious burgers
Also keep in mind that if the cow population was allowed to expand unrestricted it would be disastrous for the climate due to all the farting that they do. So we are not just eating meat because its good and we like it, were eating meat for no less of a reason than to save the planet! I mean is there a greater environmentalist cause than fighting global warming? Im actually upset with you for not doping your share in reducing the threats to the environment, forcing the rest of us to pick up your share of the work

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Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit We aren't brontosaurs' spending 99% of our waking hours grazing just to meet daily dietary requirements.

Even the brontosaurus wasn't a brontosaurus, to be fair.

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Originally posted by WittyHandle The tooth argument is a prime example of information that can be interpreted by either side to justify their decision.

Correct.

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Originally posted by Lilith If animals didn't want me to eat them, they would have evolved to taste bad.

I've got a question. Where is the injustice, in killing the animal, or in eating it (or both)? Why?

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Originally posted by Moongoose

You do realize how silly this is right? We breed them for our uses. If we didn't use them, we wouldn't breed them, and their environmental impact would be significantly less. I don't think the feral cow population is a significant factor.

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Originally posted by djhaziel errr. our diet has become softer therefore humans don't need as many teeth as before. Many thousands of years ago we even had a 4th molar and due to our change in terms of "consistency" in our diet, the 4th molar disappeared , same thing is happening with the 3rd molar ( wisdom tooth) which is now considered a rudimentary organ . Again our mind evolved because of the intake of essential fatty acids ( omega 3 and omega 6 ) that are all found in nuts , seeds , flowers etc . btw that national geographic bullshit did you just made it up ? you should post the source or else consequences will never be same .

( wisdom tooth) which is now considered arudimentary organ


Dude... that is so medically incorrect. Vestigial organs is a theory.

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby I had ribs last night, and I had pastrami for lunch. It tastes good and the only reason for those animals to exist now is for us to eat them.

Some animals are created to fertilize the earth to grow better crops if you choose to look at it that way.

I don't see why most people are seriously against eating meat or for eating meat, I feel a healthy balance between the two is what's proper.


edit: repost I'm sure. No time to wade through 20 pages

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/20...html?ref=dining

hot damn! just saw this - would love to try to do this sometime.

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Originally posted by LAdazeNYnights http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/20...html?ref=dining hot damn! just saw this - would love to try to do this sometime.

Have you seen the episode of Anthony Bourdain's No Reservations, where he goes to the Philippines? They have cooks who are specially trained to cook pigs over an open flame, turning it at appropriate intervals, to get the skin nice and crisp.


That looks good, too, but if you can catch that episode... That ones on my bucket list.

I love that show...I haven't seen that episode though. I remember an episode in the Philippines but all I can really recall from it is that crazy 'balut' stuff. I really like Bourdain - from when I first read Kitchen Confidential. I just finished reading his new one, Medium Raw, actually.
Do you mean that traveling to the Philippines for that is on your bucket list or just roasting a whole pig? The latter seems pretty affordable- albeit a ton of work. I'm gonna try to convince my dad.

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Originally posted by LAdazeNYnights I love that show...I haven't seen that episode though. I remember an episode in the Philippines but all I can really recall from it is that crazy 'balut' stuff. I really like Bourdain - from when I first read Kitchen Confidential. I just finished reading his new one, Medium Raw, actually. Do you mean that traveling to the Philippines for that is on your bucket list or just roasting a whole pig? The latter seems pretty affordable- albeit a ton of work. I'm gonna try to convince my dad.

I just want the pig roasted, in that particular way, along with all the other trimmings of that feast - it's towards the end of the show. The hide is this deep red and ultra crispy and they slice some of it off for Bourdain to sample, right before they serve it, and it's so crisp it sounds like a chip when he bites down on it. If I have to go to the Philippines to get it, it's worth the trip.

Another bucket list item is to be on the beach on the East Coast in Alabama for a Jubilee, when a bunch of seafood comes on shore by itself. It's a freak occurrence and doesn't happen on a schedule. Sometimes you get a whole variety and other times you might get nothing but squid. It's completely random.

I love Bourdain, too. I haven't read any of his books yet, but I probably should.

If you can get your dad to do that, make sure you get plenty of pics. I'd do it myself, if I could. The NYT preparation looks simple enough - but delicious.

Wow I'm reading about the Jubilee on wikipedia:

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The length of coast that serves as the most popular jubilee grounds is densely populated. When a jubilee is spotted people living near the shore will often ring bells and call out to alert their neighbors so that everyone can rush down to the water with washtubs, gigs and nets, and gather a bountiful�and easily reaped�harvest of seafood. As jubilees only happen on warm summer nights, often in the early pre-dawn hours, the event takes on the aspect of a joyous community beach party, with lights shining into the Bay water.

I'll be home for the next semester and figure I may very well be able to convince my dad to facilitate a pig roasting. I think he'd really enjoy it- I could have a bunch of friends come over and all lend a hand, and under 200 dollars for that kind of experience seems well worth it (especially since my dad would likely not mind paying for it...). He has a really big back yard but it's on a slope so I don't know if that would pose some sort of problem. Maybe the biggest problem would be getting enough people together to eat the whole thing....I wonder what a reasonable number would be.

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Originally posted by Enigmatik I've got a question. Where is the injustice, in killing the animal, or in eating it (or both)? Why?

It's not about justice, really - our sense of what is 'injust' is, similar to what Arbiter said earlier, merely a comparative factor accomodating for what people do not like. All creatures live with things they do not like, human and non-human alike, human beings are just exceptional in that they have the ability and compulsion to make social industries and complexes out of them; I believe that empathy is one such complex, something most everybody is imbued with from the very start, and even in the most cynical of lights, a firing of pleasurable chemicals in the brain that allow for cooperation and emotional communication on a level that is scantly understood by us, but is every bit as imminent a factor in consequential situations as greed, hatred, avarice and contempt, albeit far subtler. To apply this sort of respect to all animals, be they human or otherwise, is not an unnatural thing in the least and indeed there is a potent, historical legacy of animal husbandry, cooperation, and co-dependency that our species would be remiss to ignore or forget. Even a slight understanding of proto-mythological faculties would indicate that ancient man placed an immense amount of significance in animal and plant life, and it's very likely that the mysticism surrounding our frequent reachings for the meaning of this vital coordination is where religious thought spawned from in the first place, however mistaken modern man might suppose this to be.

Where we have lost respect, where things have gone terribly awry, is in the mass production of animals as a product of convenience, and in this light, absolutely nobody is innocent. It is no more a symptom of laziness than it would be 'lazy' to take a shortcut to work some morning, if you ask me, rather, it is the product of apathy and intentional ignorance to the plights of progression and irresponsible industry. But once more, not a one of us is innocent, nor is any solution going to be a smooth (read: profitable) one. If we do not proceed with a cautious future (which we will probably not), unrestricted conditions and biological crowding finally will bring 'justice' to us in the form of contamination and viruses that are even more effecient killers than we are. Perhaps this will happen no matter what we do - or perhaps it will not. Our capacity to understand the value of responsibility in the first place puts us above the 'lion on the savannah' scenario; If sentience is worth anything at all, we are not just mindless killers brought to the brink of hunger merely to act out our reptilian impulses. Much less is it any bit excusable for us to live in ignorance of massive farms of habitually abused animals living in squalid conditions any more than it is ok for us live in a world of concentration camps and slavery and mass murder and any other multitude of ways humans have thought of torturous ways to treat one another.

But I can understand why one would like to ignore all of that and live in convenience. It's much easier that way, so long as it happens far away from you.

I agree with hal. We should make our food happier before we eat it, because happy food is tasty food!

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN I agree with hal. We should make our food happier before we eat it, because happy food is tasty food!

That is, in fact, what Temple Grandin also believes. She's the lady who created new designs for slaughter houses and (flea) dipping circuits which better accommodate a cow's psychology.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN I agree with hal. We should make our food happier before we eat it, because happy food is tasty food!

as funny as that is...it's generally pretty true.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On It's not about justice, really - our sense of what is 'injust' is, similar to what Arbiter said earlier, merely a comparative factor accomodating for what people do not like.

I don't buy into that. It's just being glib for the sound of it. I'm sure almost everyone can name something they think is immoral or unjust or wrong but they still like, and vice versa.

I had to create levity because captain self-hate was dangerously close to becoming lost in his emo hippy wonderland of apathy.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I'm sure almost everyone can name something they think is immoral or unjust or wrong but they still like, and vice versa.

TV Reality Shows.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN I had to create levity because captain self-hate was dangerously close to becoming lost in his emo hippy wonderland of apathy.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN I had to create levity because captain self-hate was dangerously close to becoming lost in his emo hippy wonderland of apathy.

It was a brilliant execution, too. It was if he was mooing quietly at the end of your closed bolt stun gun, and then the easy sleep of a high velocity, shallow penetration, foreign body head injury.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN I agree with hal. We should make our food happier before we eat it, because happy food is tasty food!

Look, I'm just saying we should respect those who were trampled to death at the Love Parade by eating their bodies. My teeth were evolved to do so, obviously it's the right thing to do.

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