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quote:

Originally posted by Joss Weatherby You don't think Pakistan would use tactical nuclear weapons if a force like the US invaded it? I think thats a bet I would be unwilling to make... If any country is going to use nuclear weapons in the near future its going to either be Pakistan or North Korea, simply because we do not know who might have ultimate control over them if things go to shit in those countries.

Tactical nukes are on a whole different level from ICBMs. You really think Pakistan would use any kind of nuclear weapon on their own country's ground? That seems kind of silly to me.

sucks to be Ghadaffi right about now.

The french are going in first, then the italians i hear. And thats just the fashion police going after him for his stupid dress.

Mig 23 by the looks of it. I thnk thats one of the rebel pilot shot down by the empire, i mean gadaffi.

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Originally posted by Moongoose Mig 23 by the looks of it. I thnk thats one of the rebel pilot shot down by the empire, i mean gadaffi.

quote:

A Libyan jet crashes after being shot down in Benghazi (Patrick Baz / AFP - Getty Images

I heard the rebels shot down their own plane accidentally lol

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Originally posted by srussell0018 Tactical nukes are on a whole different level from ICBMs. You really think Pakistan would use any kind of nuclear weapon on their own country's ground? That seems kind of silly to me.

Yes, I do think they would.

How's this for Obama finally completing the circle of morphing into Bush? Now he's copying his speeches??


Obama yesterday on taking action vs. Libya:

quote:

I�ve taken this decision with the confidence that action is necessary, and that we will not be acting alone. Our goal is focused. Our cause is just. And our coalition is strong.

Bush in 2001, the day we took action against Afghanistan:

quote:

To all the men and women in our military � I say this: Your mission is defined. Your objectives are clear. Your goal is just.

Obama yesterday:

quote:

The United States did not seek this outcome. Our decisions have been driven by Qaddafi�s refusal to respect the rights of his people and the potential for mass murder of innocent civilians.

Bush in 2001:

quote:

We did not ask for this mission, but we will fulfill it. We defend not only our precious freedoms, but also the freedom of people everywhere to live and raise their children free from fear.

Not to mention:


Guantanamo still open? CHECK

Expanded military trials? CHECK

Predator drone strikes in Afghanistan/Pakistan at higher rate then ever? CHECK

Admitting we'll be in Afghanistan until 2014? CHECK

Patriot Act extended, with Obama wanting to keep all its provisions? CHECK


The Left outraged over Obama's "imperialism and war crimes"? Not so much; the silence is deafening. Come on Obama supporters who hated Bush with every inch of your being for his military policies... where are you? Where are the raging mob of protesters demanding he be arrested and tried at The Hague?

Comparing those quotes from their speeches is a stretch, I'd expect better from you

And calling the US participating in a UN sanctioned operation "imperialism" is beyond retarded. I used to actually take your right-wing ramblings with a grain of salt, unlike a lot of the conservative nut-jobs and morons at Fox news, but when you make stupid posts like that, it makes me realize that a "rational Republican" doesn't exist.

Imperialism and war crimes.

quote:

Originally posted by srussell0018 Comparing those quotes from their speeches is a stretch, I'd expect better from you

ha! it's merely the last piece of completing the transformation into Bush. You're an Obama supporter right? How do you feel about him continuing all of Bush's military policies?

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss How's this for Obama finally completing the circle of morphing into Bush? Now he's copying his speeches?? Obama yesterday on taking action vs. Libya: Bush in 2001, the day we took action against Afghanistan: Obama yesterday: Bush in 2001: Not to mention: Guantanamo still open? CHECK Expanded military trials? CHECK Predator drone strikes in Afghanistan/Pakistan at higher rate then ever? CHECK Admitting we'll be in Afghanistan until 2014? CHECK Patriot Act extended, with Obama wanting to keep all its provisions? CHECK The Left outraged over Obama's "imperialism and war crimes"? Not so much; the silence is deafening. Come on Obama supporters who hated Bush with every inch of your being for his military policies... where are you? Where are the raging mob of protesters demanding he be arrested and tried at The Hague?

Perhaps it is time for you guys to realize that there is no difference between The Republicans or the Democrats. They both have the same agenda.

im just glad france went in there first and started bombing tanks!

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer Perhaps it is time for you guys to realize that there is no difference between The Republicans or the Democrats. They both have the same agenda.

I actually believe Obama was serious in his anti-everything Bush leading up to the presidency. But once he got in office and was privy to the intel, he was probably like "Oh shit, this stuff actually is necessary." So he's kept it all going full steam ahead knowing that if we suffered another terrorist attack after he dismantled something like the Patriot Act, or from someone he just released from Guantanamo, it would be his ass in the next election. Thankfully for him, he's got a largely silent media on his side not reporting any of this like they did with such vigor against Bush. It's just the way it is...

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss ha! it's merely the last piece of completing the transformation into Bush. You're an Obama supporter right? How do you feel about him continuing all of Bush's military policies?

I don't quite see how supporting a UN resolution is continuing all of Bush's military policies. Maybe if Obama had sent a full-scale invasion of Libya before this had even escalated to this point it would have been like Bush's military policies, but in this case, there is actually cause. Oh wait, Obama's father didn't already try and fail to depose Gaddafi, so you're right, this is different. This isn't an old family vendetta.

You should really stop trying to compare Obama to Bush, because it makes you look like an idiot. A lot of the time the things you say do make sense and are valid assertions, but you're beyond that at this point. Now you've reverted back to "See? I told you so!" when there's really nothing there to see.

The left had much more of an issue with the invasion of Iraq, which was clearly an unjust and unnecessary war. You keep using Afghanistan to support your claims, but most of the world was behind the US with the Afghani war.

Why don't you compare this to Iraq?
Did Iraq have anything to do with 9/11? No. Did they have weapons of mass destruction? No. Was Saddam actively calling for genocide in his country? Pretty sure there was already a war for that one.
Bush invaded a country under false pretenses which he had to have known weren't true, and lied to the American public to try and justify a war over either A) Oil, or B) continuing what his father didn't do.

Comparing Obama to Bush is like comparing Albert Einstein to "The Situation."

quote:

Originally posted by srussell0018 Comparing Obama to Bush is like comparing Albert Einstein to "The Situation."

quote:

Guantanamo still open? CHECK Expanded military trials? CHECK Predator drone strikes in Afghanistan/Pakistan at higher rate then ever? CHECK Admitting we'll be in Afghanistan until 2014? CHECK Patriot Act extended, with Obama wanting to keep all its provisions? CHECK

/\

all the Bush policies both Obama and his supporters railed against for years. So my question is, do you support Obama in the above list?

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss I actually believe Obama was serious in his anti-everything Bush leading up to the presidency. But once he got in office and was privy to the intel, he was probably like "Oh shit, this stuff actually is necessary." So he's kept it all going full steam ahead knowing that if we suffered another terrorist attack after he dismantled something like the Patriot Act, or from someone he just released from Guantanamo, it would be his ass in the next election. Thankfully for him, he's got a largely silent media on his side not reporting any of this like they did with such vigor against Bush. It's just the way it is...

A silent media??? Yeah, Fox News is real silent, just like CNN or CNBC was during Bush's terms. The right wing media practically calls him a socialist dictator. Come on now, get real.

And you're right, stuff like this is necessary. A full-scale unilateral invasion of a country under false pretenses is not.

quote:

Originally posted by srussell0018 A silent media??? Yeah, Fox News is real silent, just like CNN or CNBC was during Bush's terms. The right wing media practically calls him a socialist dictator. Come on now, get real. And you're right, stuff like this is necessary. A full-scale unilateral invasion of a country under false pretenses is not.

I fail to see any regularity in which the media, except Fox, says a single word about all the Bush military policies Obama is continuing... the same ones he previously opposed. Dude if you think CNN or CNBC was silent while Bush was president about any of the aforementioned, you're a bigger idiot that I already suspected.


Edit: By "this stuff is necessary", I was referring to the list of policies your Dear Leader is carrying on, not the UN-Libya thing.

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss /\ all the Bush policies both Obama and his supporters railed against for years. So my question is, do you support Obama in the above list?

Republicans' strategy of distraction over discussing things that actually matter only works on other weak-minded conservatives. You brought this up saying that the US participating in a UN offensive in Libya continuing Bush's military policies. If I'm not mistaken, Bush's military policies including invading countries that posed no threat whatsoever to the US, for no reason other than to give daddy a present.

If Bush was still in office we probably would have already invaded Iran and North Korea too. Bush was a war hawk, and the situation with the US involvement in Libya right now is nothing of the sort.

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss I fail to see any regularity in which the media, except Fox, says a single word about all the Bush military policies Obama is continuing... the same ones he previously opposed. Dude if you think CNN or CNBC was silent while Bush was president about any of the aforementioned, you're a bigger idiot that I already suspected.

I thought I was being pretty clearly sarcastic. You said he is doing this with a silent media. Apparently you don't watch Fox News or any of their neanderthal pundits. What I was saying is that if you're calling this a silent media, then the media was pretty silent during the Bush administration.

A more accurate statement would be to say that the liberal media is silent, which is not surprising at all. Was Fox News openly criticizing Bush during his presidency? No. Are they openly criticizing Obama now? You bet your ass they are.

I thought you were different than most right wing head-cases Arguing with someone like you is like arguing with a brick wall.

quote:

Originally posted by srussell0018 Republicans' strategy of distraction over discussing things that actually matter only works on other weak-minded conservatives. You brought this up saying that the US participating in a UN offensive in Libya continuing Bush's military policies.

Wrong. I brought up the laughable similarity of Obama's speech compared to Bush's in 2011. I then laid out a list of more legitimate comparisons as to how Obama is morphing into Bush by continuing all the policies that he, and supporters such as yourself, hated. You just can't bring yourself to admit that your boy is a raging hypocrite.

quote:

If I'm not mistaken, Bush's military policies including invading countries that posed no threat whatsoever to the US, for no reason other than to give daddy a present.

You should teach foreign policy at the University level. Clearly you understand the complexities.

quote:

If Bush was still in office we probably would have already invaded Iran and North Korea too. Bush was a war hawk, and the situation with the US involvement in Libya right now is nothing of the sort.

The "what if" game of speculation is for children.

Straw Man, the Republican's best friend


Edit: *Waits for the17sss to call Obama a Muslim and demand to see his birth certificate*

quote:

Originally posted by srussell0018 I thought I was being pretty clearly sarcastic. You said he is doing this with a silent media. Apparently you don't watch Fox News or any of their neanderthal pundits. What I was saying is that if you're calling this a silent media, then the media was pretty silent during the Bush administration. A more accurate statement would be to say that the liberal media is silent, which is not surprising at all. Was Fox News openly criticizing Bush during his presidency? No. Are they openly criticizing Obama now? You bet your ass they are. I thought you were different than most right wing head-cases Arguing with someone like you is like arguing with a brick wall.

What? Focus. I am saying the media is silent in relation to all the policies (that I laid out) that he is continuing... there is no criticism, there is no mention of hypocrisy. That's what I'm talking about. So I ask you again- do you support Obama:

keeping guantanamo still open, expanding military trials, increasing and continuing Predator drone strikes in Afghanistan/Pakistan, staying in Afghanistan until 2014, and extending all portions of the Patriot Act? Yes or no, do you support this.

Some of it, yes. I think you're exaggerating when you're saying there was so much opposition to the war in Afghanistan. I don't know if you're confusing it with Iraq or what. And stop saying "the media." It's purposefully misleading. You can say "Liberal media" or "Left-wing media" but saying "the media is silent" is both incorrect and misleading.

Obviously the opposition's side of the media is going to be critical of the President. It works both ways there champ.

To answer your question more specifically, no, I don't agree with keeping Guantanamo open, yes, I agree with expanding military trials, (I'm not going to even answer your questions about Afghanistan because there wasn't a strong liberal opposition to it in the first place, and you're just purposely confusing it with Iraq it seems), and no I don't agree with extending all portions of the Patriot act.

I don't blindly support every move Obama makes just because I'm a liberal. That seems to be the main difference between Democrats and Republicans.

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