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-- Did Ferry Corsten killed trance?
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Nothing But You by Paul Van Dyk



Is that Dutch Epic Trance???



Regardless I like the song.

quote:

Originally posted by Blue Balls That means it is not Dutch Epic Trance. Because by defintion Dutch Epic Trance must have a long break down.

have you heard it it is definelty epic trance.

then what the fuck is this whole discussion on about then?


epic trance has its long fucking breakdowns like hip hop has its rappers

quote:

Originally posted by Blue Balls Nothing But You by Paul Van Dyk Is that Dutch Epic Trance??? Regardless I like the song.

how can it be dutch if its made by a german?

its like calling 50 cent uk hiphop.

All genres named after locations don't consist entirely of artists and labels from those location. At least, not after they've been around for awhile and their sound gets popular enough to influence other lands. Miami Bass isn't made entirely by guys from Miami, but the whole Dirty Down South scene started it. Summarily, French House was indeed invented by a collection of Parisians, but the biggest rising French House star these days is Dave Armstrong from Vancouver.

alright, I can come up with a couple songs off the top of my head, that some people sonsider epic style, but doesn't quite fit in to this "definition"

"How can anyone take this trite, derivative garbage seriously? What the hell is this, anyway. It's bombastic melodrama; a pompous, over-the-top, monstrously grotesque caricature of what trance used to be. The final betrayel. Trance is dead. Ferry Corsten killed it."

It seems like you want an example of some epic trance songs that aren't pompous, over-the-top, obnoxious, what have you.

Now this is kind of hard because ideas like pompous, over-the-top, and grotesque caricature are subjective terms, any song I give can be judged as pompous or not depending on each person's point of view.

But I still have a few ideas,
PvD - Nothin but You
this one can fit that idea, as you have already said

I also find that PvD - Forbidden Fruit is an epic trancer that isn't pompous, it has a lot of emotion, so it can be argued that is is a "grotesque caricature of what trance used to be", since trance used to not have such emotion in it, but one can counter this argument by saying that this track is not grotesque, a songs "grotesqueness" canot be measured objectively. I find that this isn't a pompous track though, it almost has a humble vibe to it actually.

Another tune which could qualify is Salt Tank - Eugina, another epic track, but even people with a highly developed taste for EDM find this one pleasing to hear. The classification of this track as epic is arguable, so is any sort of over-the-top factor. Subjective ideas, so if you really want to beleive ishkurs definition badly enough, you can just say "this track is pompous." If you judge the music for yourself, you might come to a different conclusion.

How about Tiesto vs Junkie XL - Obsession
This one is most definately a dutch trancer, because tiesto had a hand in it. Is it pompous, is it over the top? I don't think so, I think it is beautiful, but you might think differently. Personaly, I think it is a well thought out blend between the trippy repititions trance from back in the day and the emotion and colorful sounds that became popular later. There is not obnoxious supersaw in this one, there is a sweet breakdown but it isn't too big or obnoxious, but this can still be argued, maybe you think that the song is.

Riva - The sky is the limit,
This song later got a vocal added on top it which lead it to be called 'time is the healer', but I prefer the non vocal version. Another undeniably dutch tune, made by a dutch producer, later remixed by armin. But Riva differs from alot of dutch epic, riva's sound is very unique, have a listen and you can tell that this person has a distict style that is widely imitated. This tune is hard to call pompous and grotesque, at least for me. I find it trippy and silly and great fun to dance to, especially the small break down with the whip cracking sample, that whipcrack comes at the perfect time to make a crowd want to burst into movement. But you could call it over-the-top if you really wanted to.

I aree that a large portion of the stuff that gets classified as "dutch" is derivative crap churned out by gold diggers with a copy of cubase, but this does not mean that every tune that has a style to it that can be considered epic is pompous and obnoxious. It is possibe to show emotion in a trance song without being a monstrously grotesque caricature of what trance used to be.

PvD - Forbidden Fruit

isnt epic trance LOL!

i dont know if it is even trance...

and that is another issue, the classifications people put their music into is different for each person.

If by epic you mean "follows the build up + supersaw break down formula" then you are right forbidden fruit doesnt fit, but many people mean "emotional tune longer than 5 mins" when they think of epic, since the word epic usually refers to a long story about some great hero or something.

Perhaps these kind of debates stem from the fact that more and more people who are into EDM these days havent been or rarely actually go clubbing, where this type of music is designed to work best.

I love epic/dutch/whatever trance because when I'm on the dancefloor, it makes me stay there and enjoy myself.

The same reason I like good pumping house, or some old school UK hard house, or breakbeats, or just about any other genre that makes me want to dance.

But then that's my take on why I like xyz.

Hnn... I've heard the stuff at the clubs and, trust me, unless you are there to just stand in awe of the DJ, it doesn't work for the dancefloor. When the rhythm cuts out completely to allow just a melody to play, you have nothing to move you body physically with. It's undanceable, I'm afraid (unless you are one of those types that just kind of floats around the club). Of course, it does give fans of the DJ a chance to cheer, whoop, hollar, raise their hands in adulation, salute with their drinks, and light their lighters. Personally, when I'm on the dancefloor, I kind of like to, y'know, dance.

It's not too bad when chilling in one of those little cubicles, however.

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0915 and that is another issue, the classifications people put their music into is different for each person. If by epic you mean "follows the build up + supersaw break down formula" then you are right forbidden fruit doesnt fit, but many people mean "emotional tune longer than 5 mins" when they think of epic, since the word epic usually refers to a long story about some great hero or something.

99.9% of pauls tracks are emotional, but far from ferry/gouryella style which i concider epic trance...

forbidden fruit doesnt even really have a trance bassline

if i would have to say it id call it melodic electric house

Oh no, Dutch epic trance killed trance!
No way, it's Ferry Corsten who killed trance!
Yesterday it was Tiesto!
No, but if it's none of the above than it's Oakenfold!

Sounds like Cluedo. 'Who Killed Trance?'.
It's getting annoying now.

quote:

Originally posted by nwopper Sounds like Cluedo. 'Who Killed Trance?'.

Oeakenfold with a film score

quote:

Originally posted by Sykonee Hnn... I've heard the stuff at the clubs and, trust me, unless you are there to just stand in awe of the DJ, it doesn't work for the dancefloor. When the rhythm cuts out completely to allow just a melody to play, you have nothing to move you body physically with. It's undanceable, I'm afraid (unless you are one of those types that just kind of floats around the club). Of course, it does give fans of the DJ a chance to cheer, whoop, hollar, raise their hands in adulation, salute with their drinks, and light their lighters. Personally, when I'm on the dancefloor, I kind of like to, y'know, dance. It's not too bad when chilling in one of those little cubicles, however.

bollocks, I've been clubbing for 7 years, and I never stand in awe at djs, because, well they simply arent anything other than a normal person who happens to be mixing.

All types of music work to people who like them, I doubt you'd catch me in a mosh pit going mental like some people, but they are enjoying what theya re doing to the music they like.

Breakdowns for me give a chance to catch your breath, chat to a mate and generally await the buildup to the break so the dancing can begin again. Constant non-stop beats would get pretty dull to ME, hence why I dont often spend more than a few track on a prog dancefloor, not to say I dont like it, it just doesnt have anything to keep me interested on the dancefloor for very long.

Seems more like people hate breakdowns, not epic trance, even though they do go hand in hand

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur Summarily, French House was indeed invented by a collection of Parisians, but the biggest rising French House star these days is Dave Armstrong from Vancouver.

or Jacques Lu Cont
a bloke called Steve from reading in the UK

quote:

Originally posted by kr00t0n Seems more like people hate breakdowns, not epic trance, even though they do go hand in hand

That's about it in a nutshell, really. Of course, a breakdown here and there is fine, but not song after song. It just kills the flow of the rhythm.

That's just my taste, mind. I'm sure there are those who enjoy breakdowns every 5-8 minutes just fine, even look forward to them. More the power to them.

quote:

Originally posted by kr00t0n Seems more like people hate breakdowns, not epic trance, even though they do go hand in hand

i dont think i can name any music with out a breakdown really...

maby some techno tracks but that is quite dull...

quote:

Originally posted by sandstorm03 Even some tracks with vocals mean nothing, satellite? can anyone tell me the meaning to it?

I could... but you wouldn't believe me

quote:

Originally posted by Blue Balls Prove it. Give us some examples. Prove it. Give us some examples. If you can give proof to your argument than I would agree with you.

I'm going back to an earlier post here. Epic trance has more musical merit than classic trance because the melodies employed are without exception more complex and there tend to be more than one within a track. Classic trance has very simple and short melodies that are repeated over longer periods. For a random example, take Age of Love (Jam & Spoon Mix) which is generally regarded as a very classic trance track and compare the melodies and repetition to System-F - Out of the Blue, a textbook epic trance record. See that the former has an effective but simplistic bassline and a short, choiral lead. See that the former has four seperate hooks, from very simple to fairly complex, in addition to the bassline.
The percussive elements are also more sophisticated (largely because it's more recently made, but still) and the production as a whole is much stronger. If you play an old trance track loud and then mix into a new trance track, the newer one towers over in the mix because the sound is so much fuller.

As for bad classic trance, take your pick. The amount of unoriginal and badly made classic trance is far from small, and personally I even think material such as Jam & Spoon's Tripomatic Fairytales 2001 to be pretty crap (sorry Sykonee). Of course, "bad" is subjective, so its hard to prove any classic trance as bad. But equally, you cannot prove any epic trance as bad.

ferry did not kill trance
Just listen to indigo, kyoto, sublime and cubikated and then tell me if he killed trance. Ishkur's a dumbass, nuff said..

And as for paul oakenfold killing trance, thats gotta be the funniest shit ive heard ever on these boards, no wonder i dont post much *sigh*

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J As for bad classic trance, take your pick. The amount of unoriginal and badly made classic trance is far from small, and personally I even think material such as Jam & Spoon's Tripomatic Fairytales 2001 to be pretty crap (sorry Sykonee). Of course, "bad" is subjective, so its hard to prove any classic trance as bad. But equally, you cannot prove any epic trance as bad.

Oh, d'ems fightin' words!

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Laher ferry did not kill trance Just listen to indigo, kyoto, sublime and cubikated and then tell me if he killed trance. Ishkur's a dumbass, nuff said.. And as for paul oakenfold killing trance, thats gotta be the funniest shit ive heard ever on these boards, no wonder i dont post much *sigh*

+1

I dunno what ive been listening to on my stereo for the past 2 hours cuz it cant be trance, aparently trance is dead.

quote:

Originally posted by JakeC I dunno what ive been listening to on my stereo for the past 2 hours cuz it cant be trance, aparently trance is dead.

much like God, according to Nietzsche.

Age of Love might very well be the most perfect trance song ever made.

If I had to pick a top 5:

Age of Love - Age of Love
Resistance D - Cosmic Love
Union Jack - Red Herring
Underworld - Thing in a Book
William Orbit - Water From a Vine Leaf (technically not trance, but no one was caring at that point)

These are songs I could put on repeat and dance to for 8 straight hours without knowing I did.

this thread is gold, should go in the archives in the future

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