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-- terrorists arrested in TO
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quote:

Originally posted by crazedcanuck Actually, you missed his point IMO. Your assertion that "because this is not America, and the whole wide wonderful world knows it." seemed to imply that we are somehow different in the eyes of those who would seek to attack western nations. That has nothing to do with the guilt of this particular party, but the notion that their arrests have made that we are indeed vulnerable to attack.

on comment number 1, when has Canada ever been attacked, or mentioned in attack before 9/11? what historical data supports your claim that we have reason to beleive that before this, first 'possible' threat, we have ever had substantial reason to beleive that we, as an indipendant nation, was at risk. There is none, our closest terrorist threat was by separtist Quebec parties several, several years ago.

Comment 2 This has everything to do with the guilt of this party, everything. Because IMO there is and was never a threat. If these individuals are cleared, then their guilt was never in question, thus a 'threat' never existed.

"Vulnerable to attack" - ala bush, cheney, ashcroft, rice that is american language, leave it on cnn

oh, and I never miss the point, we see differant sides.

quote:

Originally posted by 7-4-7 I didnt realise that media coverage of an event, exploitation of minuscule amounts of information and an whole lot of speculation was reason enough to lay a judgement of guilt. To adopt american "thought" processes, like yours is, is exactly the kind of "thinking" we dont need here. then again, immediate guilt on the basis of terrorist speculation is the american way, good luck with that.

hasn't all that has been presumed here is that there is sufficient evidence to warrant an arrest and trial? I think CSIS, the RCMP, and the other various police forces involved deserve *at least* that much of a benefit of the doubt.

it's your apparent skeptical attitude towards a long-term investigation by various policing organizations that is more troubling than anyone's alleged presumption that there must be *something* to these charges to have warranted the use of such extensive investigative resources.

how about we let our courts do their job before making dismissive remarks such as "because this is not America, and the whole wide wonderful world knows it."?

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT how about we let our courts do their job before making judgements about the guilt of these individuals, the threat of the Canadian people, and our vulnerability as a nation.

much better

quote:

Originally posted by 7-4-7 on comment number 1, when has Canada ever been attacked, or mentioned in attack before 9/11? what historical data supports your claim that we have reason to beleive that before this, first 'possible' threat, we have ever had substantial reason to beleive that we, as an indipendant nation, was at risk. There is none, our closest terrorist threat was by separtist Quebec parties several, several years ago.

Whether we were mentioned in attacks/threats before 9/11 is of no consequence. We have been mentioned post 9/11, on multiple occassions, even in one of Bin Laden's released statements on Al Jezeera.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1080788091951_67///?hub=TopStories

Al Qaeda website urges attacks on Canada
Updated Wed. Mar. 31 2004 11:33 PM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

Canada has been named again in a chilling new call to arms from al Qaeda. A posting found this week on an al Qaeda website places Canada fifth on a target list.

The website is believed to be published by senior al Qaeda figure, Saif al-Adel. It calls on followers to attack Canadians and other westerners at home and abroad.

Experts warn it could be only a matter of time before Canada is hit. Several other countries named on the list -- such as Spain and Australia -- have already been attacked. Terror experts warn that Canadians have a false sense of security.

"We're a target. We're very clearly in its crosshairs," says John Thompson of the Mackenzie Institute.

Terror experts warn there appears to be an escalating strategy to strike "softer" targets of the West.

"I think Canadians should take it very seriously," says American terror watchdog Rita Katz. "Especially considering the fact that the manuals they are using are the ones they use to communicate to al Qaeda throughout the world."

In Ottawa, Public Security Minister Anne McLellan downplayed any threat.

"We are a named country, that is very clear. That is not new. Osama bin Laden named us. We know that we are a named country and we act accordingly," she told reporters in Ottawa.

But a new report suggests Canada wouldn't react very well at all. A Senate committee found that if Canada is hit with a terrorist attack or major natural disaster, its frontline workers won't be equipped to deal with it.

The committee found:

There is still no national plan to deal with biological attacks
Few police forces are equipped with the proper protective gear
Police, firefighters and ambulance forces in most communities are all on different communications systems.
The report also found problems at our national agency responsible for co-ordinating emergencies, the Office of Critical Infrastructure Protection and Emergency Preparedness.
The office's phone system when down during the power blackout in Ontario last August.
As well, half of Canada's communities didn't know what the agency was. Of those that did, half questioned its usefulness.
Red tape and bureaucratic hassles are hampering their potential effectiveness, said the committee, which studied the issue for more than two years.
Canadians "should be damned mad about it," said Colin Kenny, chairman of the Senate committee on national security and defence, at an Ottawa news conference.

"Canadians are entitled to reasonable service when an emergency hits, and entitled to have their officials plan in advance and have the right equipment there and available," Kenny said.

Kenny was particularly scornful of OCIPEP, saying it can do everything but respond to an emergency.

The committee said the federal government should take on the responsibility of not only strengthening its own emergency systems but helping out the provinces with theirs.

The Senate report comes on the heels of a report from Auditor General Sheila Fraser who said gaps in security measures could leave the country vulnerable to a terrorist strike.

quote:

Originally posted by 7-4-7 Comment 2 This has everything to do with the guilt of this party, everything. Because IMO there is and was never a threat. If these individuals are cleared, then their guilt was never in question, thus a 'threat' never existed. "Vulnerable to attack" - ala bush, cheney, ashcroft, rice that is american language, leave it on cnn oh, and I never miss the point, we see differant sides.

The IDEA that we are in danger has been a growing issue for the past 4 yrs. This event may have provided a catalyst for people to pay attention and hightened interest. Their guilt, or lack thereof doesn't have anything to do though with your assertion that we are different from our southern neighbours in the eyes of terrorists, and thus not vulnerable to attack.

Removing the arrests from the equation entirely, and it still doesn't make Canada appear any different. We are still a western economic power with rampant hedonism, capitalism, and indulgence of epic proportions. Add the appearance of a majority Christain morality in terms of our laws and policies, and we look awfully like that big piece of land below us. Oh, and we are currntly involved in the affairs of multiple muslim nations, and participatd in both Gulf Wars to varying degrees, and the conflict in the Balkins.. so game, set match.

*pats on head

so we need to wait for a court decision before we can evaluate our vulnerability as a nation.

that's just ridiculous!

hell, why don't we just wait until an actual attack before taking any precautions?

Oh, and incase you forgot, there was the Air India Bombing, and the attempted Millenium plannig plotted and assembled in British Columbia, with the intent of crossing into the US and blowing up LAX.

As well as the political assassination of an Ambassador in I believe it was the 60s or 70s.. too lazy to look it up, as I think I've proved my point.

All that aside, healthy skepticism is imperative. I am very much against the Iraq situation, and not entirely on board with the Afghanistan nation building we've taken on. However there is a difference to being skeptical and informed, and being skeptical and full of conjecture. I hate the latter, because it's simply lazy opinions based on nothing more than personal bias as opposed to fact.

You're threat assement of Canada and assumption that we are somehow not being painted with the same brush as the US falls under lazy conjecture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182

Air India Flight 182 was a Boeing 747 that exploded on June 23, 1985 while at an altitude of 31,000 feet (9500 m) above the Atlantic Ocean, south of Ireland; all 329 on board were killed, of whom eighty two were children and 280 were Canadian citizens.

The bombing was the single largest terrorist attack before those of September 11 2001, and the largest mass murder in Canadian history. It occurred within an hour of the Narita Airport Bombing.

The Air India B747-237B �Emperor Kanishka� (registered VT-EFO) flew on a Montr�al-Mirabel International Airport, � London Heathrow Airport � Indira Gandhi International Airport, Delhi � Sahar International Airport (now Chatrapati Shivaji International Airport), Bombay (now Mumbai) route.

The Canadian government's trial of those accused of the bombing, Ripudaman Singh Malik and Ajaib Singh Bagri, is known as the Air India Trial. The investigation and prosecution took almost twenty years and was the costliest in Canadian history at nearly CAD $130 million. On March 16, 2005, the accused were found not guilty by Justice Ian Josephson in British Columbia and were released. The person convicted of involvement in the bombing was Inderjit Singh Reyat. On February 10, 2003 Reyat pled guilty to manslaughter in constructing the bomb used on Flight 182 and received a 5 year sentence.

The length and cost of the trial, and subsequent verdict have been a source of great controversy in Canada.

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLI...0/august6.memo/


The following is a transcript of the August 6, 2001, presidential daily briefing entitled Bin Laden determined to strike in US. Parts of the original document were not made public by the White House for security reasons.

Clandestine, foreign government, and media reports indicate bin Laden since 1997 has wanted to conduct terrorist attacks in the US. Bin Laden implied in U.S. television interviews in 1997 and 1998 that his followers would follow the example of World Trade Center bomber Ramzi Yousef and "bring the fighting to America."

After U.S. missile strikes on his base in Afghanistan in 1998, bin Laden told followers he wanted to retaliate in Washington, according to a -- -- service.

An Egyptian Islamic Jihad (EIJ) operative told - - service at the same time that bin Laden was planning to exploit the operative's access to the U.S. to mount a terrorist strike.

The millennium plotting in Canada in 1999 may have been part of bin Laden's first serious attempt to implement a terrorist strike in the U.S.

Convicted plotter Ahmed Ressam has told the FBI that he conceived the idea to attack Los Angeles International Airport himself, but that in ---, Laden lieutenant Abu Zubaydah encouraged him and helped facilitate the operation. Ressam also said that in 1998 Abu Zubaydah was planning his own U.S. attack.

Ressam says bin Laden was aware of the Los Angeles operation. Although Bin Laden has not succeeded, his attacks against the U.S. Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998 demonstrate that he prepares operations years in advance and is not deterred by setbacks. Bin Laden associates surveyed our embassies in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam as early as 1993, and some members of the Nairobi cell planning the bombings were arrested and deported in 1997.

Al Qaeda members -- including some who are U.S. citizens -- have resided in or traveled to the U.S. for years, and the group apparently maintains a support structure that could aid attacks.

Two al-Qaeda members found guilty in the conspiracy to bomb our embassies in East Africa were U.S. citizens, and a senior EIJ member lived in California in the mid-1990s.

A clandestine source said in 1998 that a bin Laden cell in New York was recruiting Muslim-American youth for attacks.

We have not been able to corroborate some of the more sensational threat reporting, such as that from a ---- service in 1998 saying that Bin Laden wanted to hijack a U.S. aircraft to gain the release of "Blind Sheikh" Omar Abdel Rahman and other U.S.-held extremists.

Nevertheless, FBI information since that time indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York.

The FBI is conducting approximately 70 full-field investigations throughout the U.S. that it considers bin Laden-related. CIA and the FBI are investigating a call to our embassy in the UAE in May saying that a group or bin Laden supporters was in the U.S. planning attacks with explosives.

looks like Paranoia is about to take over this country big time.
so sad.


Fuckin Americans and their fuckin war on terror

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer Alot of people hate my politcal views and thats fine but nothing will stop me from expressing myself.

And nothing should stop them from telling you that you a total tool!!

Yeah Cyrus told me to come check out some of his posts over here, plus I was interested in hearing from TAs that live in or near this event. This is a good read, plus its refreshing to see that others, even your fellow canadians, see you for what you are..


I am now off to the PDD area to torment Softcore Dancer over there.

p.s. I feel for you canadians, I live here in the US and I have seen what the Patriot Act has done to our freedoms here in the states.. its a little wierd now, hell I am hispanic but I get hassled all the time when I fly due to my appearence, I was told I look kind of like an Arabian. lol

peace, love and gods to all of my norhtern TA Brothers and Sisters

quote:

Originally posted by LazFX peace, love and gods to all of my norhtern TA Brothers and Sisters

Our humble salutations to you and yours too.

quote:

Originally posted by LazFX I was told I look kind of like an Arabian. lol

Arab ...lol @ Arabian!

I like Hispanic girls seeing one now!

quote:

Originally posted by LazFX I am hispanic but I get hassled all the time when I fly due to my appearence, I was told I look kind of like an Arabian. lol

the solution:

quote:

Originally posted by Abercrombie Our humble salutations to you and yours too.

Great News!!!!! Zarqawi was killed today. One by one these gutter rats are going to be obliterated from the face of the earth.

quote:

Originally posted by fayraree Dude, you must hang out with the same Muslims who are being accused of terrorism for their violent/ignorant tendencies OR you've done something to piss off the Muslims you've spoken to.

So, clearly, you have a profound understanding of the opinions of most muslims within this city?

I'm actually fairly good friends with many of them. I've not pissed them off, nor are they getting arrested as we speak. Many are well educated people, well rounded and tolerant, that I've met at university, and are not a part of "my little corner". Everything I've learnt from them has been of their own accord and chosing to share. I tend to not get hung up on issues like these, as in my experience, as you're so clearly demonstrating now, its easy to get someone overly defensive. If I'm wrong, well forgive me, but your posts definitely carry that tone.

quote:

LOL "that is DEFINITELY not a true Muslim/Christian/Whatever." Furthermore, you think I'm secular?!?! FYI, there are more PRACTICING Muslims like me than of ANY OTHER CREDO in Toronto, so maybe if you got out of your little corner of this city, you'd find them. Get involved in various student groups and clubs and you'll find them. We are not "cutting our own piece of the pie"; we are the MAJORITY.

Never did I intone that you were secular, I in fact agreed with your statement above that most are NOT in fact secular. I'm not sure where you've taken this argument. You seem to blindly defend your faith, when I was not ever one to attack it. What exactly do you mean by statements that you're the majority? It just means your piece is bigger. THis has gone way off topic, and most of my discussions with you seem to revolve around me perceivably attacking Islam, and you blindly defending it, and claiming my ignorance. That was not my intention.

quote:

Originally posted by starsearcher Arab ...lol @ Arabian! I like Hispanic girls seeing one now!

ha ha just don't get them mad lol

quote:

Originally posted by LazFX ha ha just don't get them mad lol

*mental note* thanks for the advice

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer looks like Paranoia is about to take over this country big time. so sad. Fuckin Americans and their fuckin war on terror

haha

ur right it's gona be all america's fault not these muslim youth who wanted to blow up buildings

quote:

Originally posted by Dopey haha ur right it's gona be all america's fault not these muslim youth who wanted to blow up buildings

well obviously who else...it's all America's fault

quote:

Originally posted by 7-4-7 Percieved alignment with America; Canadians are not Americans, and the whole world knows it.

We are Americans. Canada is that part of North America that stayed loyal to Britain, as opposed to that part of North America that declared its independence.

We share a common historical bond, not just before independence but after too. If you don't understand that fact, read Cale's excellent thread on D-Day for some insight.

Your ultra-nationalist and chauvanistic views are unbecoming of this country (although it's understandable given Trudeau's campaign of cultural suicide).

quote:

Originally posted by ShadoWolf We are Americans.

We are?? Damn, I learn something every day!

...in other news, Al-Zarqawi is rumoured to have been killed in a raid...

quote:

Originally posted by starsearcher well obviously who else...it's all America's fault

America is the great scape goat for airing dirty laundry around the world and a convenient arguement for those that don't understand the full picture...

We all live on this rock together yea know?

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r America is the great scape goat for airing dirty laundry around the world and a convenient arguement for those that don't understand the full picture... We all live on this rock together yea know?

Of course, I was just being sarcastic with that statement lol

quote:

Originally posted by starsearcher Of course, I was just being sarcastic with that statement lol

No worries, it wasn't really directed at you anyways.

You're rooting for England so you must be ok

quote:

Originally posted by fayraree ..... fuck face .....

That's not very nice, two wrongs don't make a right

quote:

Originally posted by ShadoWolf We are Americans.

Think logically about that claim, because you are wrong.

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