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-- Trance: The Way It's Supposed To Be
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| Originally posted by PETRAN LOL, the first paragraph wasn't about the discussion though, i was just making an assumption about you and that wasn't even serious. Anyways it went too far though you are right, but i clearly know what i'm writting and in a matter of fact, you don't need to interpret thinks if you allready have facts about them. That's what i did, i explained(it is true incoherently though) that subjective experiences (music) and genres(weak ways to group subjective experiences by one or a small number of people) are not identical and therefore there was nothing to "perfect and objectify"(the genres as you said) that's all.That fact was enough to stop this discussion from the beginning.With no need for implausible poetry analogies   |
and...the objective property in the case of house music was a"club-name"?All "house-music" is grouped in reference to this property?You can clearly see from everyday experience that this is NOT happening...Yes that could be ideal for you...but that's NOT the case with genres!!!!
This is what actually happens...one person or a small number of people just decide it to call it this way or the other...in most cases its because that music maked them feel one way or another...say "entranced" (trance?), or give them the "blues"(blues?) or it sounds very futuristic/technological(techno?).In other cases it could just be associated with anything such as a clubname(house?).Note that this is what maked THEM feel ( probably a specific target group, maybe with standart age-ranges and cultures-who knows?).
In the end this name is used to describe the current music genre. When the sound has largely deviated from it's starting point, in ways that many of It's original elements are not there, the name changes, possibly not in a new genre but in a sub-genre.If the changes are big than a whole new genre is created.
What are these changes though that make people decide?The ACTUAL changes that make people decide are not changes in the subjective feel of the sound (it sounds dark it sounds hard)but ACTUAL CHANGES IN THE GENRE-SOUND ITSELF...organs used, ways of playing the organ etc.note that this could be associated with changes in the subjective experience of sound but it has nothing to do with genre-naming...the objective elements of a sound's texture and the subjective ways of naming them are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.They just happen to be associated to our poorely-designed cognitive systems.
In this way, when the actual changes in the sound are generated than peopel decide to find a new name and therefore make a new name, NOTICE though that this name is NOT GENERATED from objective standards but in simple happenstance. If peopel had a genre-meter machine such as , a nachine that it could measure actual changes in the sound and ASSIGN a genre name in an OBJECTIVE way and in RELEVANCE to its measurement, than genre-names and genre-name-changes would INDEED BE VALID OBJECTIVE TOOLS. Because though this is
clearly NOT happening (and you can see that from ROCK music,rock was "rocking" in the beginning but sigur-ros definitely DON'T rock nowadays lol-they are very slow)and genre names are created from single subjective chaotic happen-stance circumstances , the genre-names themselves CAN NEVER BE PERFECTED IN AN OBJECTIVE WAY.Hence the majority of todays hous emusic has nothing to do with the music played in the warehouse.
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| Originally posted by PETRAN and...the objective property in the case of house music was a"club-name"?All "house-music" is grouped in reference to this property?You can clearly see from everyday experience that this is NOT happening...Yes that could be ideal for you...but that's NOT the case with genres!!!! |
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| i realize fully that the ideal suggested is not a description of the current situation. i don't realize why it couldn't be in the future. |
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| Originally posted by PETRAN Hmmm, well it could be...listen you can be the first one to invent an "objective-genre taxonomy system", the way Linaeus did for nature wow!!!This system should first establish the actual acoustic elements of a genre.Furthermore, in reference to that first objective computation, the proportion of changes of these elements in order for a tune to be "transitive" and qualify for a new sub-genre (or a new genre allover) could be accurately predicted.Each element should be analyzed in itself, e.g. the bassline sounds deviate from the original 40%, the synth lead-sound 55%, the overall tempo is increased (from a mean of 128 bpm) in relation to the first original genre sample of tunes by 15 points... Take note though that a big variety exists(music genres are very "ill-defined"), even in the case of the tunes that belong to an identical genre, so these "intra-genre deviations" should be included in the overall computation. Good luck. After that point you can come back and proudly scream.... DAMN ASOTTTT MUUSIICCC DOES NOT QUALIFFYYY ASSS TRAAANCEEE YOUUU MMOORROONNSSS HA HA HAAAAAAAA!!!!... |
Well I am not going to read all your huge ass 1000 word long question and answers because I am a lazy fucktard like a lot of people.
However I think that these songs in my opinion are along the lines of what trance should sound like (notice no breakdowns longer than 30 seconds).
Song 1
Song 2
Song 3
Song 4
Enjoy them.
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