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-- Could the goverment have people on their payroll to post in forums like these?
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| Originally posted by Trancer-X I don't call my critics trolls. I call those who troll trolls but apparently you don't want to recognize that I make that distinction. |
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That's funny, especially given that my family came to this country two centuries before your state was even admitted into our Union and has fought bravely through every war up to and including Vietnam (which wasn't really even a war.)  |
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And hey, I'm not the one who seems to be either wittingly or unwittingly serving the interests of the sameinternational elite who's working towards destroying our national sovereignty. That would be you  |
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| Originally posted by Krypton No, I think you name every single person who disagrees with you a troll. Lebez, me, PKC, who else have you called a troll? Congratulations! Your point? What, me arguing with you on a fucking dance music website is serving supranational interests? WTF are you smokin, and can I have some! |
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| Originally posted by Trancer-X No, I label those who continue to troll after blatantly disregarding the inordinate amount of evidence which has been presented here trolls. |
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| My point is that while my forebears came here to escape political and financial oppression, it's back again no thanks to stupid fvcks like yourself who continue to tow the big business/big money party line. |
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| I'm sure there are plenty of schmucks like yourself online, trolling though every messageboard that anyone gets even remotely political. I think that's a part of their perception management and how they maintain the charade while keeping everyone in the dark. |
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| It's Orwellian and it's disgusting and I have a hard time understanding how they're even able to find enough brainwashed idiots to go along with it. But they apparently do. It's like an evil that has come to pervade our society and it's probably going to get a lot worse considering that Obama has already alluded to his wanting to set up a Stasi-like civillian intelligence network if/and/or when he becomes president. |
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| Originally posted by Krypton Already demonstrated my issues with your "evidence". |
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| Actually, I hate neocons and corporatism just like you do, sorry I don't delve into unproven conspiracy theories. |
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| Heh, trolling schmucks. Like you? I disagree with you, you scream troll. Seems to be a pattern. Oh bringer of the light... |
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| Yea, because anyone who disagrees with you is... a. brainwashed b. a government agent c. a troll |
whatever trancer, believe whatever you want, i don't care. I'm going to enjoy hounding your theories every step of the way, and all you can do is just deal with it, or debate me. your choice.
This is 9/11 truth...
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| Originally posted by Krypton whatever trancer, believe whatever you want, i don't care. I'm going to enjoy hounding your theories every step of the way, and all you can do is just deal with it, or debate me. your choice. This is 9/11 truth... |
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| Originally posted by Krypton My standard of truth is, give me direct evidence, and tell me, who exactly is responsible. You have failed at both directives. Might I also add that my standard of truth is that which is used in a court of law. Direct evidence, prime suspects. You have neither. Example. You say the towers were rigged to explode. Ok. Give me direct evidence. Has anyone found bomb fragments? No. Does anyone know who would have set these bombs? No. Does anyone know who ordered this treachery? No. Has anyone found missile fragments from the Pentagon? No. Does anyone know who would have fired the missile? No. Does anyone know who would have ordered the missile fired? No. Who is in command of this secret government faction guilty of treason? You don't know. Oh, but I'm just a troll for bringing these things up..I'm sorry.. |
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| Originally posted by Trancer-X BUT YOU DON'T EVEN DEBATE! DON'T YOU GET IT?! Dancing around the issues without actually addressing the various points which are brought up is not a debate, |
could someone link me a thread where trancer actually engaged in a debate with someone in the PDD?
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| Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN is he trying to be funny? could someone link me a thread where trancer actually engaged in a debate with someone in the PDD? |
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| Originally posted by ******** Maybe the CIA or other government groups had to destroy their office materials to avoid classified information from being disiminated. As there were CIA facilities incide the WTC. |
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| Originally posted by Trancer-X They had offices in WTC7 as did the OEM, IRS, FBI, DoD, the Secret Service, etc. Actually, so did the SEC (which was investigating the ENRON scandal when the attacks occurred.) |
oh yeah, that's right. the government demolished the buildings to destroy secret files. right up there with the dumbest of the dumb theories.
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| Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN oh yeah, that's right. the government demolished the buildings to destroy secret files. right up there with the dumbest of the dumb theories. |
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| Originally posted by {b.s.e.} I believe you are right up there, yourself. |
Prove that flight 77 crashed into the pentagon then troll.
This should be amusing.
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| Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN have you found that plane that didn't crash at the pentagon yet? no-planers calling other people stupid sure does make me grin |
it didn't match up with that of the Official Lie.
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| Originally posted by {b.s.e.} http://video.google.ca/videoplay?do...black+box&hl=en Go to 39 minutes and watch the lie and the truth in spitting distance from each other. They released the black box in 2007, and the NTSB was so kind as to reconstruct the flight from the data gathered. Amazingly it didn't match up with that of the Official Lie.Go figure. |
If I were going to do some detective work here, regarding the original post, I'd do the following:
1. Who is a recently registered member of the board relative to the rest of the community, and what is their affiliation and general social policy?
2. Who's name and biography on the site seems suspicious or even nonsensical, and out of place on the forum as far as its actual topics go?
3. Most importantly, who, of the usual posters, conveniently neglected to post even a single response to this thread?
Answer:
The17sss.
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| Originally posted by Trancer-X BUT YOU DON'T EVEN DEBATE! DON'T YOU GET IT?! Dancing around the issues without actually addressing the various points which are brought up is not a debate, that's just you being a troll. THAT IS WHY I CALL YOU A TROLL!!! You don't research the topics presented here, you just blindly refute them. THAT IS WHAT TROLLS DO!! Get a clue!! |
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| Originally posted by Trancer-X I don't call my critics trolls. I call those who troll trolls but apparently you don't want to recognize that I make that distinction. That's funny, especially given that my family came to this country two centuries before your state was even admitted into our Union. I have MANY ancestors and relatives who have fought bravely through every war up to and including Vietnam (which wasn't really even a war.) And hey, I'm not the one who seems to be either wittingly or unwittingly serving the interests of the same international elite who's working towards destroying our national sovereignty. That would be you I did have a grandfather who received RAF wings when he first fought the Japanese over China, though, but I think that was because he was there before we (the USA) were officially in the war. He was in the OSS and then later the CIA, though, but not the MI6 (at least not that I know of.) |
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| Originally posted by {b.s.e.} That doesn't explain anything. What force does the movement of my right hand represent, first of all? If an object has to exert energy on something else, like pushing air from out of its path, there won't be enough energy available as kinetic energy; lengthening the time it spends falling. So how did the kinetic energy double, then quadruple, etc as it smashed through each floor in 13 seconds? Remember, it takes a brick 12 seconds to fall 1350 ft with just air resistance. How could the building fall at essentially free fall speed with more factors (presumably, from your theory) than just air resistance? What is your problem? Where have you come across sources that I've produced that are unreliable in your quest for the truth? You haven't addressed anything I've stated. Just made up some half-assed experiment that did nothing but force me to reiterate my point. |
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| Originally posted by culorut The ASCE was limited by their research. They did not have access to all the information to base a final conclusion. Firefighter Mag Raps 9/11 Probe "A respected firefighting trade magazine with ties to the city Fire Department is calling for a "full-throttle, fully resourced" investigation into the collapse of the World Trade Center. A signed editorial in the January issue of Fire Engineering magazine says the current investigation is "a half-baked farce." The piece by Bill Manning, editor of the 125-year-old monthly that frequently publishes technical studies of major fires, also says the steel from the site should be preserved so investigators can examine what caused the collapse. "Did they throw away the locked doors from the Triangle Shirtwaist fire? Did they throw away the gas can used at the Happy Land social club fire? ... That's what they're doing at the World Trade Center," the editorial says. "The destruction and removal of evidence must stop immediately." Fire Engineering counted FDNY Deputy Chief Raymond Downey, the department's chief structural expert, among its senior advisers. Downey was killed in the Sept. 11 attack. John Jay College's fire engineering expert, Prof. Glenn Corbett, serves as the magazine's technical editor. A group of engineers from the American Society of Civil Engineers, with backing from the Federal Emergency Management Agency, has been studying some aspects of the collapse. But Manning and others say that probe has not looked at all aspects of the disaster and has had limited access to documents and other evidence. A growing number of fire protection engineers have theorized that "the structural damage from the planes and the explosive ignition of jet fuel in themselves were not enough to bring down the towers," the editorial stated. A FEMA spokesman, John Czwartacki, said agency officials had not yet seen the editorial and declined to comment. Norida Torriente, a spokeswoman for the American Society of Civil Engineers, described her group's study as a "beginning" and "not a definitive work." Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) has joined a group of relatives of firefighters who died in the attack in calling for a blue-ribbon panel to study the collapse. "We have to learn from incidents through investigation to determine what types of codes should be in place and what are the best practices for high-rise construction," Manning told the Daily News. "The World Trade Center is not the only lightweight, core construction high-rise in the U.S. It's a typical method of construction." |
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NY TIMES City Had Been Warned of Fuel Tank at 7 World Trade Center-December 20, 2001 "Fire Department officials warned the city and the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey in 1998 and 1999 that a giant diesel fuel tank for the mayor's $13 million command bunker in 7 World Trade Center, a 47-story high-rise that burned and collapsed on Sept. 11, posed a hazard and was not consistent with city fire codes. The 6,000-gallon tank was positioned about 15 feet above the ground floor and near several lobby elevators and was meant to fuel generators that would supply electricity to the 23rd-floor bunker in the event of a power failure. Although the city made some design changes to address the concerns - moving a fuel pipe that would have run from the tank up an elevator shaft, for example - it left the tank in place. But the Fire Department repeatedly warned that a tank in that position could spread fumes throughout the building if it leaked, or, if it caught fire, could produce what one Fire Department memorandum called "disaster." |
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| NY TIMES December 25, 2001 THE TOWERS Experts Urging Broader Inquiry in Towers' Fall "In calling for a new investigation, some structural engineers have said that one serious mistake has already been made in the chaotic aftermath of the collapses: the decision to rapidly recycle the steel columns, beams and trusses that held up the buildings. That may have cost investigators some of their most direct physical evidence with which to try to piece together an answer. Officials in the mayor's office declined to reply to written and oral requests for comment over a three- day period about who decided to recycle the steel and the concern that the decision might be handicapping the investigation...Interviews with a handful of members of the team, which includes some of the nation's most respected engineers, also uncovered complaints that they had at various times been shackled with bureaucratic restrictions that prevented them from interviewing witnesses, examining the disaster site and requesting crucial information like recorded distress calls to the police and fire departments..."This is almost the dream team of engineers in the country working on this, and our hands are tied," said one team member who asked not to be identified. Members have been threatened with dismissal for speaking to the press. "FEMA is controlling everything," the team member said...Dr. Frederick W. Mowrer, an associate professor in the fire protection engineering department at the University of Maryland, said he believed the decision could ultimately compromise any investigation of the collapses. "I find the speed with which potentially important evidence has been removed and recycled to be appalling," Dr. Mowrer said. |
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| Originally posted by culorut and this, Fire Engineering magazine is the 125-year-old paper-of-record of the fire engineering community. Bill Manning, editor-in-chief, wrote an Editor�s Opinion in the January, 2002 edition. His editorial, $elling Out the Investigation, pointed out that destruction of evidence � the hurried removal of rubble which should be examined by investigators � is illegal. He also issued a �call to action�. To quote excerpts: "For more than three months, structural steel from the World Trade Center has been and continues to be cut up and sold for scrap. Crucial evidence that could answer many questions � is on the slow boat to China �" "I have combed through our national standard for fire investigation, NFPA 921, but nowhere in it does one find an exemption allowing the destruction of evidence for buildings over 10 stories tall." "Fire Engineering has good reason to believe that the �official investigation� blessed by FEMA [Federal Emergency Management Agency] and run by the American Society of Civil Engineers is a "half baked farce" [emphasis mine] that may have already been commandeered by political forces whose primary interests, to put it mildly, lie far afield of full disclosure. Except for the marginal benefit obtained from a three-day, visual walk-through of evidence sites conducted by ASCE investigation committee members � described by one close source as a �tourist trip� � no one�s checking evidence for anything." "The destruction and removal of evidence must stop immediately." |
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| Originally posted by atbell Again, where's this from and when? I need to be able to find it with ease on a credible site. It is still lacking specific criticisim of the ASCE work. For any criticizim to be taken serriously it has to show that this guy, Bill Manning, has actually read any of the reports. Otherwise all he's saying is "this isn't being done like I want it to be done." From the sounds of it this guy is just pissed because he isn't getting fame while some civi is. |
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| Originally posted by culorut The professionals had limited resources to work with. Explosion at WTC Complex Despite the fact that the horrible events of Sept. 11 occurred in broad daylight and were widely photographed, significant aspects of the attacks have been completely suppressed by a media blackout. Exclusive to American Free Press By Christopher Bollyn A massive explosion, witnessed by millions of television viewers on CNN, evidently devastated World Trade Center 6, the eight-story U.S. Customs building, although no national newspaper, other than American Free Press, has written a word about it. Before the smoke had cleared from around the stricken South Tower, a mysterious explosion shot 550 feet into the air above the U.S. Customs House at WTC 6. The unexplained blast occurred between the burning North Tower and the 47-story Salomon Brothers Building, known as WTC 7, immediately after United Airlines Flight 175 smashed into the South Tower, at about 9:03 a.m. The explosion at WTC 6 was shown afterward on CNN. But because it was not broadcast as it happened there has been some confusion about when it actually occurred. The large amount of smoke seen cascading around the South Tower in the video led some observers to mistake the blast for a dust cloud from the subsequent collapse of the tower. TIMING CONFIRMED American Free Press contacted CNN to determine exactly when the footage was filmed. CNN�s Public Affairs Department confirmed that the explosion shown in the footage occurred immediately after the second plane had crashed into the South Tower. When asked if the footage was taken at 9:04 a.m., the CNN archivist said �that�s correct.� When asked if CNN could offer any explanation about what might have caused the blast that soared higher than the 47-story WTC 7 in the foreground, the archivist said: �We can�t figure it out.� The affected space between WTC 7 and the North Tower was occupied by the Customs House building, also known as WTC 6. The building housed the offices of 760 employees of the Customs Service, a part of Treasury. Other federal agencies had offices in the building, including the Departments of Commerce, Agriculture, Labor, and the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms. They did not return calls to AFP about the matter. A spokesman for the Export-Import Bank of the United States, which had an office with four employees on the sixth floor of the Customs House, confirmed the time of the explosion and told AFP that the employees had survived and been relocated. One private company, Eastco Building Services, Inc., reportedly leased space in the building. Some 800 workers from WTC 6 were safely evacuated within 12 minutes of the first plane hitting the North Tower at about 8:46 a.m., according to a Sept. 18 Washington Post article by Stephen Barr. The Barr piece is the only known article published about WTC 6. However, Barr failed to mention the explosion that apparently devastated the building just minutes after the workers had escaped with their lives. AVOIDING THE SUBJECT Although the Customs House apparently exploded at 9:04 a.m., the government-sponsored investigation was steered away from looking into what had actually happened. The Federal Emergency Management Agency funded an investigation by the American Society of Civil Engineers. However, investigators were reportedly blocked from the building by an order from the New York City�s Department. of Design and Construction . Kenneth Holden is commissioner of the DDC, having been appointed by the former mayor, Rudolph Giuliani on Dec. 7, 1999. Regarding the investigation of WTC 4, 5, and 6, FEMA�s �Building Performance� report says, �WTC 5 was the only building accessible for observation.� But, it adds, �the observations, findings, and recommendations are assumed to be applicable to all three buildings.� A spokesman for FEMA told AFP that because the building was considered by DDC to be �very dangerous,� there was �no data collection� from WTC 6. Dr. Gene Corley, one of the engineers who led the investigation, told AFP that concerns about loose gold bullion and cash prevented investigators from entering WTC 4. The FEMA report says, �The buildings [4,5,6] responded as expected to the impact loadings.� Although the report says, �most of the central part of WTC 6 suffered collapse on all floors,� it adds, �damage was consistent with the observed impact load.� The Customs House had a huge crater in its center. Corley told AFP that he had not seen the CNN photos before and called them �interesting.� Corley, like other experts, thought the damage at WTC 6 was caused by the collapse of the North Tower. However, not one of the experts could recall seeing the CNN footage before. A spokesman for the Customs Service told AFP, �It did not blow up. When the tower collapsed it caved in.� Corley said he had not seen the photos of the extremely high-speed missile-like object seen streaking toward WTC 6 from behind the North Tower as the second plane hit the South Tower. He noted that parts of the plane�s landing gear and an engine passed through the South Tower, and landed several blocks away. These objects, however, had a distinctly different trajectory from the streaking missile-like object. Another investigator, Jonathan Barnett, told AFP, �The debris from Tower 2 hit Building 5, not 6.� |
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