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-- Do you believe there is a U.S. government cover-up surrounding 9/11?
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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i know there were no fvcking explosives. i was asking the other camp to explain it to me

LOL ok.

They won;t explain..they will either call you stupid, blinded, sheep, uninformed, unenlightened, a beleiver of whatever media tells you or uneducated. Then they will throw at you NUMEROUS web sites compiled with half truths and monkey dust with theories from aliens commendeared the planes to Barbara Bush planted the explosives her self because 9.11.org says so...or one of their heroes says so...hence the invite of the intelectualy paranoid Chomsky, Zin or Blum.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN ogv5150, i was interested in that link you gave me, but not in searching thru a nutcase forum repost that video link and ill have a look at it.

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Originally posted by Trancer-X [[ LINK REMOVED ]] http://isohunt.com/torrents.php?ihq...ess&ext=&op=and

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Originally posted by Psygnosis btw that 911 Eye witness thing i was talking about is on Google Video aswell, view it [[ LINK REMOVED ]]

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Originally posted by ogvh5150 ed2k://|file|911.Eyewitness.avi|711874560|83307D534D657438AD5E82F85AAA6FED|/

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN still, no ones ever answered my question regarding the placement of the explosives. did they tell the pilots EXACTLY which floors to crash into coz the govt had already planted the explosives? haha. or did they plant the explosives straight after the planes hit?

That would be needed to be answered by an explosives expert most likely from Controlled Demolition, Inc. since this is a tranceaddict forum rather than contolled demolition addict no one can be able to answer that question.

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Originally posted by Masterpiece Lecture by Steven E. Jones, Professor of Physics, Brigham Young University, February 1st 2006. Jones has written a paper regarding the September 11 terror attacks which is currently undergoing peer review and pending official publication in scientific journals. The most recent draft is posted on his faculty website at BYU ( http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html ). In this paper, 'Why Indeed did the WTC Buildings Collapse', Jones cites evidence supporting the hypothesis that controlled demolition, rather than simply the impact of jet airliners and the ensuing fires, caused the buildings to collapse. In the treatise, Jones presents evidence for the explosive-demolition hypothesis, which has yet to be analyzed in any reports funded by the United States government. Jones notes all three buildings fell symmetrically into their footprints, a phenomenon associated with 'controlled demolition' and examined extensively by 9/11 researcher Jim Hoffman, in calling for renewed investigations into the 9/11 attacks. He points out, among other evidence, the speeds of the collapses, the "pulverization of concrete to flour-like powder," and the presence of horizontal puffs of smoke observed ascending the side of WTC 7, common when pre-positioned explosives are used to demolish buildings. Jones notes that some aspects of the buildings' collapses remain poorly understood and that the demolition hypothesis can quickly resolve much of the debate. A passage in his paper addressing this point: "...How do the upper floors fall so quickly, then, and still conserve momentum in the collapsing buildings? The contradiction is ignored by FEMA, NIST and 9-11 Commission reports where conservation of momentum and the fall times were not analyzed. The paradox is easily resolved by the explosive demolition hypothesis, whereby explosives quickly remove lower-floor material including steel support columns and allow near free-fall-speed collapses (Harris, 2000)...." Jones also examines the official reports by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) and the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (aka the 9/11 commission), which all conclude fires and damage alone caused complete demolition of all three buildings. A central topic within Jones essay is the contention that the condition and nature of the debris which remained following the buildings' collapses was not consistent with the scenarios documented by FEMA and NIST; in particular, along with the observations of molten metal at Ground Zero by Leslie Robertson (WTC structural engineer)and Dr. Allison Geyh (a public health investigator from Johns Hopkins), Jones cites and includes photographic evidence, which he says show molten metal in the debris, and notes the reports on sulfidation of structural steel. Note: This is the raw footage from camera 1, and not the final production (will be postet later). But everything is here. code: Filesize.....: 697 MB Runtime......: 02:13:09 Video Codec..: DivX5 Video Bitrate: ~ 630 kb/s Audio Codec..: MP3 Audio Bitrate: 80 kb/s Frame Size...: 720x576 ed2k://|file|911.-.BYU_Professor_Steven_E_Jones_at_UVSC_February_1_2006_Lecture_(Raw_Feed_From_Camera_1).DivX5.avi|730957182|ADEA559F8ACAE1C45CBEBBDF6B9400BE|/ Or just an mp3 and Steven Jones' pictures: ed2k://|file|911.-.BYU_Professor_Steven_E_Jones_at_UVSC_February_1_2006_Lecture.mp3|63716435|38D7F403AEAA7CA29153D4BC23638432|/ ed2k://|file|911.-.BYU_Professor_Steven_E_Jones_at_UVSC_February_1_2006_Power_Point.zip|29741109|F00BF941A3A04290EE7B80C057154745|/ ed2k://|file|911.-.BYU_Professor_Steven_E_Jones_at_UVSC_February_1_2006_Slideshow_Photos.zip|4775294|F4B567E0FCEE4B4C0E632021609E4398|/

The ed2k links can be caught using edonkey, emule or shareaza. These files are not on the forum nor the ftp. They are links similar in nature to a url tag on a forum such as this one.

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Originally posted by tiesto14 And the passengers, aling with the black boxs. I guess the secret people carriend the bodies of the passengers ina fterwards though...right?

check out this internet documentry it has all the evidence in it, so can you handle the truth......wel can you?

[[ LINK REMOVED ]]



to answer your first question i dont think osama was awre untill after the attacks as his first so called video confession was proven to be a fake ie not him in the video a look a like and his voice was faked

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Originally posted by seval check out this internet documentry it has all the evidence in it, so can you handle the truth......wel can you? [[ LINK REMOVED ]] to answer your first question i dont think osama was awre untill after the attacks as his first so called video confession was proven to be a fake ie not him in the video a look a like and his voice was faked

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Originally posted by ogvh5150 That would be needed to be answered by an explosives expert most likely from Controlled Demolition, Inc. since this is a tranceaddict forum rather than contolled demolition addict no one can be able to answer that question. The ed2k links can be caught using edonkey, emule or shareaza. These files are not on the forum nor the ftp. They are links similar in nature to a url tag on a forum such as this one.

A child can tell you: the question of how a building fell down can be resolved ONLY by engineers. Not physicists, theologians, or guys who just think they�re the smartest guy in the world. It has to be engineers.

Absolutely NO ENGINEERS back up the conspiratorial fantasy about 9/11. On the contrary, they have utterly debunked any theories:

Where can I find engineering studies concerning the World Trade Center that refute the claims that it was demolished by bombs or �controlled demolition?�
http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_execsum.pdf
http://wtc.nist.gov/media/Structura...se_Analysis.pdf
http://www.firehouse.com/news/2002/4/30_APwtc.html

Where can I find engineering studies that offer evidence that structural steel from the World Trade Center was collected for analysis?
http://wtc.nist.gov/media/gallery.htm#recover
http://wtc.nist.gov/media/gallery2.htm
http://wtc.nist.gov/media/Structura...se_Analysis.pdf
http://members.fortunecity.com/911/wtc/WTC_apndxD.htm

Where can I find evidence that refutes the claim that World Trade Center Building 7 was �pulled� down intentionally by some official order?
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JO...erman-0112.html

Where can I find engineering studies concerning the Pentagon that refute the claims that it was hit by a guided missile?
http://www.icivilengineer.com/News/WTC/pentagon.php
http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/cmh/simulation/phase1/
http://www.asce.org/responds/

[n]More information: [/n]
http://architecture.about.com/libra...tc-collapse.htm
http://www.icivilengineer.com/News/wtc.php
http://www.icivilengineer.com/News/WTC/structure.php
http://enr.construction.com/news/bu...ives/021104.asp
http://web.mit.edu/civenv/wtc/
http://www.icivilengineer.com/News/WTC/Fire.html
http://www.asce.org/pdf/3-6-02wtc_testimony.pdf
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JO...Eagar-0112.html
http://www.civil.usyd.edu.au/latest/wtc.php#why
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/resources.html
http://www.house.gov/science/hot/wtc/

More links to real engineers refuting conspiracy theorists:
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JO...Eagar-0112.html
http://www.civil.usyd.edu.au/latest/wtc.php
http://space.com/scienceastronomy/g...nce_010919.html
http://www.teachersdomain.org/6-8/s...stems/collapse/
http://mcleon.tripod.com/WTC1.htm
http://www.hera.org.nz/PDF Files/World Trade Centre.pdf


Give it up, conspiracy wonks. The experts have spoken--& they were not hired by the bad guys.

The WTC was not brought down by the most incompetent administration ever, in a tricky job that fooled everyone except a few megalomaniacal guys. International bankers did not contrive to close down Wall Street. There is not a secret takeover going on that only you can perceive.

If you �hate the government with all your heart,� you are a sick man. That�s probably why you resort to these delusional theories.
Get help. Hang around normal people once in a while. Pray for sanity.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tiesto14
[/QUOTE

humm...... i guess that shut you up, sarcastic face isnt really a relpy its more of a 'i dont know how to come back from this symbol'

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Originally posted by seval [QUOTE]Originally posted by tiesto14 [/QUOTE humm...... i guess that shut you up, sarcastic face isnt really a relpy its more of a 'i dont know how to come back from this symbol'

NO i just dont take anyone serious who tells me to get my information from those blurry, grainy and horrible videos. Show me some evidence from EXPERTS who are qualified to answer such questions and then i will acknowledge you.

Maybe you should read some of the links i just provided that are by experts.

And the Osama tape is legit...no question about that.

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Originally posted by tiesto14 A child can tell you: the question of how a building fell down can be resolved ONLY by engineers. Not physicists, theologians, or guys who just think they�re the smartest guy in the world. It has to be engineers. Absolutely NO ENGINEERS back up the conspiratorial fantasy about 9/11. On the contrary, they have utterly debunked any theories: Where can I find engineering studies concerning the World Trade Center that refute the claims that it was demolished by bombs or �controlled demolition?� http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_execsum.pdf http://wtc.nist.gov/media/Structura...se_Analysis.pdf http://www.firehouse.com/news/2002/4/30_APwtc.html Where can I find engineering studies that offer evidence that structural steel from the World Trade Center was collected for analysis? http://wtc.nist.gov/media/gallery.htm#recover http://wtc.nist.gov/media/gallery2.htm http://wtc.nist.gov/media/Structura...se_Analysis.pdf http://members.fortunecity.com/911/wtc/WTC_apndxD.htm Where can I find evidence that refutes the claim that World Trade Center Building 7 was �pulled� down intentionally by some official order? http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JO...erman-0112.html Where can I find engineering studies concerning the Pentagon that refute the claims that it was hit by a guided missile? http://www.icivilengineer.com/News/WTC/pentagon.php http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/cmh/simulation/phase1/ http://www.asce.org/responds/ [n]More information: [/n] http://architecture.about.com/libra...tc-collapse.htm http://www.icivilengineer.com/News/wtc.php http://www.icivilengineer.com/News/WTC/structure.php http://enr.construction.com/news/bu...ives/021104.asp http://web.mit.edu/civenv/wtc/ http://www.icivilengineer.com/News/WTC/Fire.html http://www.asce.org/pdf/3-6-02wtc_testimony.pdf http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JO...Eagar-0112.html http://www.civil.usyd.edu.au/latest/wtc.php#why http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/resources.html http://www.house.gov/science/hot/wtc/ More links to real engineers refuting conspiracy theorists: http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JO...Eagar-0112.html http://www.civil.usyd.edu.au/latest/wtc.php http://space.com/scienceastronomy/g...nce_010919.html http://www.teachersdomain.org/6-8/s...stems/collapse/ http://mcleon.tripod.com/WTC1.htm http://www.hera.org.nz/PDF Files/World Trade Centre.pdf Give it up, conspiracy wonks. The experts have spoken--& they were not hired by the bad guys. The WTC was not brought down by the most incompetent administration ever, in a tricky job that fooled everyone except a few megalomaniacal guys. International bankers did not contrive to close down Wall Street. There is not a secret takeover going on that only you can perceive. If you �hate the government with all your heart,� you are a sick man. That�s probably why you resort to these delusional theories. Get help. Hang around normal people once in a while. Pray for sanity.

note how most of these site are government sites hardly an open minded field to express the truth, speak out against the government and loose their job, id dismiss these sites as evidence, joke

tiesto14 i think youve been smoking on the goerge bush bullshit pipe for too long, as an americian you are far more likely to believe your government wouldnt do such a terrible thing, though their is only so many contradictions you can accept before it all falls down

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Originally posted by seval note how most of these site are government sites hardly an open minded field to express the truth, speak out against the government and loose their job, id dismiss these sites as evidence, joke

LOL...ok pal watch out for the men in black. No amount evidence will sway your opinion...you are convinced the world is run by spys. My links are from governemnt studies, univercities and well known engineering camps that are all credibal...like it or not you are delusional.

One notable self-contradiction of you conspiracy folk is your use of media news. You uniformly maintain the media is controlled & you can�t believe it. The CNN is run by the Pentagon. The Washington Post has gone totally neocon. The secret conspirators are writing the news, so you can�t trust it.

Then you guys do little else than cite stories from mainstream media sources. This is just staggeringly dumb, it seems to me. You will tell you how bogus the news is, then not only cite mainstream news sources, but cite them as further authority. Verily, you guys must have cream-of-wheat for brains.

Conspiracy people act out fundamental self-contradictions all the time, as when you declare the news to be bogus, then do nothing but cite news reports. Or say there is no distinction between liberal & conservative, then talk endlessly about liberals & conservatives. Or say the government is evil, then lobby their congresspeople. Or pledge themselves to free speech, then use a bullhorn to suppress everyone else�s free speech. Or declare yourselves populists while condemning 99% of the population. Or come out for freedom while opposing the right to abortion. Or accuse the government of fearmongering while devoting your waking hours to their own incredible fearmongering. Or say we�re under martial law & then complain about their rights. That sort of thing.

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Originally posted by tiesto14 LOL...ok pal watch out for the men in black. No amount evidence will sway your opinion...you are convinced the world is run by spys. My links are from governemnt studies, univercities and well known engineering camps that are all credibal...like it or not you are delusional. One notable self-contradiction of you conspiracy folk is your use of media news. You uniformly maintain the media is controlled & you can�t believe it. The CNN is run by the Pentagon. The Washington Post has gone totally neocon. The secret conspirators are writing the news, so you can�t trust it. Then you guys do little else than cite stories from mainstream media sources. This is just staggeringly dumb, it seems to me. You will tell you how bogus the news is, then not only cite mainstream news sources, but cite them as further authority. Verily, you guys must have cream-of-wheat for brains. Conspiracy people act out fundamental self-contradictions all the time, as when you declare the news to be bogus, then do nothing but cite news reports. Or say there is no distinction between liberal & conservative, then talk endlessly about liberals & conservatives. Or say the government is evil, then lobby their congresspeople. Or pledge themselves to free speech, then use a bullhorn to suppress everyone else�s free speech. Or declare yourselves populists while condemning 99% of the population. Or come out for freedom while opposing the right to abortion. Or accuse the government of fearmongering while devoting your waking hours to their own incredible fearmongering. Or say we�re under martial law & then complain about their rights. That sort of thing.

one advantage to being IRISH and living in IRELAND is that you dont get cnn and the rest of the american news channels, over her we get RTE news and bbc news, completly neutral and in the opinion that events leading up to and after the attacks and the skill behind them leads to the conclusion that the only possible organisation capable of getting past americian air defence are the americian gevernment , but this is a pointless argument you are blinded by stupid americian idology that god is on your side and your government is totally not to blame for the attacks, lets say these attacks were the work of osama bin laden he claims that the americian troops insult, beat and ridicule the faith of islam so even on that level the government is still to blame for trying to force their opinions down the rest of the worlds mouths, look at iraq more civilians have been killed in the last couple of years by the brittish and americian troops than saddam did in his entire reiqn.

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Originally posted by seval bbc news, completly neutral

HA...BBC HATES Bush.

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Originally posted by seval and in the opinion that events leading up to and after the attacks and the skill behind them leads to the conclusion that the only possible organisation capable of getting past americian air defence are the americian gevernment ,

HUH?

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Originally posted by seval but this is a pointless argument you are blinded by stupid americian idology that god is on your side and your government is totally not to blame for the attacks,

God is not on my side because i do not beleive in him. You calling me blinded is typical theorists jargon when you have nothing else to refute my claims.

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Originally posted by seval lets say these attacks were the work of osama bin laden he claims that the americian troops insult, beat and ridicule the faith of islam so even on that level the government is still to blame for trying to force their opinions down the rest of the worlds mouths,

Um dont get your point...but Osama is to blame...that i widly accepted across the globe, well except for theorists like yourself...you guys are no better then the people who claim aliens were involved.

quote:

Originally posted by seval look at iraq more civilians have been killed in the last couple of years by the brittish and americian troops than saddam did in his entire reiqn.

Simply not true.


And i will challenege you....since American news is not to be trusted and they are giving fake Osama confessions...how about you find me one Al Jazeera news source that refutes Osama's confession...you do that and i will surrendur to your theory and call you the victor...surely Al Jazeera wouldnt lie...they hate America as much as the BBC.

we all know osama was trained by the CIA i my personal believe is that osama is a smoke screen for goerge bush's quest for oil, if the government wanted osama they would of got him, if you remember how quickley they found saddam it took them just over a month to find him, though i have no evidence to prove this opinion my common sense tells me that this is highly likely.
but at the end of the day its what you personaly believe and trying to force somebody to believe what you/I believe is wrong, i just think that if you were to look at the situation from outside the box what happened is quite plausable and people like goerge bush are very motivated by money and would sell their soul to have as much money as possible, and there is no doubt that oil is money just look at the profits brittish oil company BP made last year alone �13 billion

tiesto14 are you serious about the alien comment you made, haha thats quality i know im a bit irish but bloody hell aliens lol dats awesome

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Originally posted by seval but at the end of the day its what you personaly believe and trying to force somebody to believe what you/I believe is wrong,

I disagree...at the end of the day there are facts...and the facts. by experts and common sense, proves no conspiracy.

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Originally posted by seval i just think that if you were to look at the situation from outside the box what happened is quite plausable and people like goerge bush are very motivated by money and would sell their soul to have as much money as possible, and there is no doubt that oil is money just look at the profits brittish oil company BP made last year alone �13 billion

Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and Puff Daddy are more fueled by money than George Bush does that implicate them as well?

You bring up oil...implying that they prchestrated 9.11 to invade countries like Iraq for oil...so i go back to my main point...if that were true why not make a plan that linked to Hussein to 9.11 and not Osama or better yet plant a WMD in Iraw and shout "told you so"?

DO NOT FEED THE TROLL

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When you try to reason with a troll, he wins. When you insult a troll, he wins. When you scream at a troll, he wins. The only thing that trolls can't handle is being ignored.

There is an ignore feature for this forum. Click on the persons profile then click on "Add XXXXX to Your Ignore List"

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Originally posted by seval tiesto14 are you serious about the alien comment you made, haha thats quality i know im a bit irish but bloody hell aliens lol dats awesome

I kid you not

http://www.realufos.com/wtc.shtml

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...05/ixworld.html

or go read about David Icke who claims, based on his exploration of genealogical connections to European royalty, that many presidents of the United States have been reptilian humanoids. In his view reptilian humanoids were behind 9.11. Google him and see how sick people really are.

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Originally posted by ogvh5150 DO NOT FEED THE TROLL There is an ignore feature for this forum. Click on the persons profile then click on "Add XXXXX to Your Ignore List"

Classic theorists...i post credibal links and disprove his little theory and he calls me a troll....theorists can never have a real debate and when they lose the resort to these actions....i accept your surrender.

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Originally posted by tiesto14 I disagree...at the end of the day there are facts...and the facts. by experts and common sense, proves no conspiracy. Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and Puff Daddy are more fueled by money than George Bush does that implicate them as well? You bring up oil...implying that they prchestrated 9.11 to invade countries like Iraq for oil...so i go back to my main point...if that were true why not make a plan that linked to Hussein to 9.11 and not Osama or better yet plant a WMD in Iraw and shout "told you so"?

Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and Puff Daddy what superpower do they rule? oh thats rite none, i dont know if you have forgotton but tony blair admited that him and bush lied about iraq and wepons of mass destruction so they did have a plan, lets not forget here were not talkin about robing a bank were talking about going into a country overthrowing their government and steling their natural resources, its not excatley something that can be done outright if they did then they would be stoped from doing so, but if you say that your doing it to save the world rid the world of terrosits then you have something to work with, international politics isnt childs play it isnt black and white and to think othrewise is a sign of being naive, and incase youve forgotton about china and the slightly scary rate of their economic growth is putting alot of pressure on the americian and european economy's more so the americian as pretty soon china will be the strongest economy on the plannet, this may not sound too bad but to the americian and europeians this means a loss of hundreds of billions of pounds/dollars/euros, and the only way to stop the chinese growth is too take away their oil, gas pipelines and any other natural resource they can

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Originally posted by seval Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and Puff Daddy what superpower do they rule? oh thats rite none,

all you said was Bush was money hungry so i posted them because they are also..u did not say anything about power.

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Originally posted by seval i dont know if you have forgotton but tony blair admited that him and bush lied about iraq and wepons of mass destruction ,

no i dont remember...link please.

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Originally posted by tiesto14 all you said was Bush was money hungry so i posted them because they are also..u did not say anything about power. well what else would i be talking about goerge bush hardly makes computers or rap's does he no i dont remember...link please.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/070903A.shtml
http://www.hindu.com/2004/01/26/sto...12601881400.htm
http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/ne...service_id=4987
http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/20...html?id=pp2.htm

here are just a few if this isnt enough for you google this(tony blair admits lying about weapons of mass destruction)
so is ok to tell us after the damage has been done i think not, more lies at the expense of innocent people

I won't argue that the U.S. government does not engage in brutal, murderous skulduggery from time to time. But the notion that the U.S. government either detected the attacks but allowed them to occur, or, worse, conspired to kill thousands of Americans to launch a war-for-oil is absurd. This crap is probably not worth a rational rebuttal, but I'm irritated enough to try.

So let's start with a broad question: would U.S. officials be capable of such a foul deed? Capable -- as in able to pull it off and willing to do so. Simply put, the spies and special agents are not good enough, evil enough, or gutsy enough to mount this operation. That conclusion is based partly on, dare I say it, common sense, but also on years spent covering national security matters.

Not good enough: Such a plot -- to execute the simultaneous destruction of the two towers, a piece of the Pentagon, and four airplanes and make it appear as if it all was done by another party -- is far beyond the skill level of U.S. intelligence. It would require dozens (or scores or hundreds) of individuals to attempt such a scheme. They would have to work together, and trust one another not to blow their part or reveal the conspiracy. They would hail from an assortment of agencies (CIA, FBI, INS, Customs, State, FAA, NTSB, DOD, etc.).

Yet anyone with the most basic understanding of how government functions (or does not function) realizes that the various bureaucracies of Washington -- particularly those of the national security "community" -- do not work well together. Even covering up advance knowledge would require an extensive plot. If there truly had been intelligence reports predicting the 9/11 attacks, these reports would have circulated through intelligence and policymaking circles before the folks at the top decided to smother them for geopolitical gain. That would make for a unwieldy conspiracy of silence. And in either scenario -- planning the attacks or permitting them to occur -- everyone who participated in the conspiracy would have to be freakin' sure that all the other plotters would stay quiet.

Not evil enough. This is as foul as it gets -- to kill thousands of Americans, including Pentagon employees, to help out oil companies. (The sacrificial lambs could have included White House staff or members of Congress, had the fourth plane not crashed in Pennsylvania.) This is a Hollywood-level of dastardliness, James Bond (or Dr. Evil) material.

Are there enough people of such a bent in all those agencies? That's doubtful. CIA officers and American officials have been evildoers. They have supported death squads and made use of drug dealers overseas. They have assisted torturers, disseminated assassination manuals, sold weapons to terrorist-friendly governments, undermined democratically-elected governments, and aided dictators who murder and maim. They have covered up reports of massacres and human rights abuses. They have plotted to kill foreign leaders.

These were horrendous activities, but, in most instances, the perps justified these deeds with Cold War imperatives (perverted as they were). And to make the justification easier, the victims were people overseas. Justifying the murder of thousands of Americans to help ExxonMobil would require U.S. officials to engage in a different kind of detachment and an even more profound break with decency and moral norms.

Not gutsy enough. Think of the danger -- the potential danger to the plotters. What if their plan were uncovered before or, worse, after the fact? Who's going to risk being associated with the most infamous crime in U.S. history? At the start of such a conspiracy, no one could be certain it would work and remain a secret. CIA people -- and those in other government agencies -- do care about their careers.

Would George W. Bush take the chance of being branded the most evil president of all time by countenancing such wrongdoing? Oil may be in his blood, but would he place the oil industry's interests ahead of his own? (He sure said sayonara to Kenneth Lay and Enron pretty darn fast.) And Bush and everyone else in government know that plans leak. Disinformation specialists at the Pentagon could not keep their office off the front page of The New York Times. In the aftermath of September 11, there has been much handwringing over the supposed fact that U.S. intelligence has been too risk-averse. But, thankfully, some inhibitions -- P.R. concerns, career concerns -- do provide brakes on the spy-crowd.


David Corn - Washington editor of The Nation.

quote:

Originally posted by seval http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/070903A.shtml http://www.hindu.com/2004/01/26/sto...12601881400.htm http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/ne...service_id=4987 http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/20...html?id=pp2.htm here are just a few if this isnt enough for you google this(tony blair admits lying about weapons of mass destruction) so is ok to tell us after the damage has been done i think not, more lies at the expense of innocent people

That does not show they admitted they lied like you said...it shows their intel was wrong...big difference.

And i am here to discuss 9.11 plots..lets not get off topic...thats another thing theorists do in the face of defeat.

quote:

Originally posted by tiesto14 That does not show they admitted they lied like you said...it shows their intel was wrong...big difference. And i am here to discuss 9.11 plots..lets not get off topic...thats another thing theorists do in the face of defeat.

ok here we go i didnt want to bring this up, how much do you know about nazi germany and the weimar republic? being americian probably not much apart fom they killed jews, hitler got the support of his country telling them the rest of the world is evil and arian raceof germany is the best, not too disimilar from from bush saying the middle east is evil and americia is the greates nation on earth, hitler also invaded other countrys in his quest to gain steel, gas and coal to rebuild his army and economy, the only difference is bush is doing it to save his economy, third hitler killed millions of jews, gays, and anybody who didnt agree with them, the difference with bush is that he has the un partially on his side.
now im not calling the americian people nazias, but i am calling bush an evil man capable of more than he lets on, do you honestly believe that a man portrayed as being so stupid would be allowed to run a race let alone a country america has been brainwashed, and to say i am theroist is incorrect as i have backed up my claims from ligitamate sources, i am also very well educated in morern politicts an dmodern history so dont try to pull the wool over my eyes you quite clearly dont have any knowelede of the world apart form your own country and have proven to be incabable of putting up a decent argument as you dont know all the facts, i was very shocked that you dont know about bush and blair admitting they were wrong about wepons of mass destruction, one thing i should point out is politics is about infering(reading between the line for you) so when they say a 20 billion�/$ intellogence programe coldent prove the wepons of mass destruction it means they knew and threfore lied about it. you are an incompetent fool living in a bubble and seemingly uneducated in current events
so before you have a go at me calling me a conspirist or a theroist i think you should research up to date statements, government documents and not relying on out of date media clipings.
i supose you didnt know that the bbc proved 9 of the suicide bombers to be alive and well today, thats a little strange dont you think, suicide bombers in a 500mph+ plance crash still being alive

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