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-- 'No God' Ads, Soon To Appear On TTC Vehicles, Spark Heated Debate
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Originally posted by DJ_Elyot All pseudoscience. Same goes for stuff like scientology and my personal favourite: homeopathic remedies. I can't believe that people out there actually believe that they can make medicine MORE powerful by diluting it with WATER. Just another example of confirmation bias and how ridiculously powerful the placebo effect can be. People's minds are swayed by powerful imagery and crazy stories. A lot of it is fake (think about the incentives people have to make shit like this up. Think of how rich the scientology guys are.) Has any serious scientific study ever verified the effectiveness of a homeopathic remedy over a suitably administered placebo? No. Have any reproducible studies proven the existence of extrasensory perception that can, say, determine which cup a ball is under and succeed at a statistically significant percentage of the time? No. And if any such studies appear, I think it is FAR more luckly that they are bullshit than they are true. Think of where the money to fund these things comes from. Think of the parties that are interested. Think of the retarded news reporters that do anything for a story. There are DOZENS of books on the shelves of bookstores today that talk about all kinds of SHIT like "auras", magical "crystals", astrology, etc. People spend $200 on a magical metallic bracelet that improves the way they feel with its "ionic resonance". This is all COMPLETE bullshit. It seems like there is a new fad every year. Pseudoscience needs to die.

what the hell does exorcism have to do with scientology?

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Originally posted by Yohan what the hell does exorcism have to do with scientology?

shhhhh hes intelligent because he doesn't believe in the supreme being thingy majigy

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Originally posted by Yohan humans must be really dumb if they keep falling for this supernatural thingy business. millions and millions of human. over many centuries (and most of them would be as rational and sane as you and me)

Well, I genuinely believed in santa claus for a long time as a child. It seemed perfectly sensible at the time. And the human mind is very powerful and can do strange things.

One of my favourite experiments is the following. Teacher brings a bottle of clear liquid to the front of the class labeled "concentrated sulfuric acid". He says that he will uncork the bottle and that the kids in the class will notice a slightly pungent smell. The smell will waft through the room from the front of the class to the back, and people closer to the bottle will smell it sooner. He asks the class to put up their hand when they smell the acid. He uncorks the bottle. Sure enough, the kids in the front row near the bottle put up their hands first, then the next row, radiating outward from the bottle, until every last kid in the class has their hand up. Then the teacher drinks the liquid, which was really just water.

We are really not as clever as we think we are.

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Originally posted by Yohan what the hell does exorcism have to do with scientology?

Like scientology, it's completely fake. It is a form of completely useless and silly pseudo-medicine. It makes no sense, and it's not real. People do it, and people feel that it worked. But it did nothing short of a placebo effect.

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Originally posted by DJ_Elyot Well, I genuinely believed in santa claus for a long time as a child. It seemed perfectly sensible at the time. And the human mind is very powerful and can do strange things. One of my favourite experiments is the following. Teacher brings a bottle of clear liquid to the front of the class labeled "concentrated sulfuric acid". He says that he will uncork the bottle and that the kids in the class will notice a slightly pungent smell. The smell will waft through the room from the front of the class to the back, and people closer to the bottle will smell it sooner. He asks the class to put up their hand when they smell the acid. He uncorks the bottle. Sure enough, the kids in the front row near the bottle put up their hands first, then the next row, radiating outward from the bottle, until every last kid in the class has their hand up. Then the teacher drinks the liquid, which was really just water. We are really not as clever as we think we are.

obviously the teacher farted..duh

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Originally posted by Yohan i'm curious. what do you think of exorcism? apparently these shit stuff happens today (run a search on youtube. freaky stuff)

Hah. What a joke.
You want to study something fascinating? (not this speculative and delusional bullshit; believing an evil spirit is inside someone)take a look at quantum observatory effects--fucking fascinating.

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Originally posted by evil_cookie Hah. What a joke. You want to study something fascinating? (not this speculative and delusional bullshit; believing an evil spirit is inside someone)take a look at quantum observatory effects--fucking fascinating.

ok. so what are your explanations to these so called exorcisms?

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Originally posted by evil_cookie Hah. What a joke. You want to study something fascinating? (not this speculative and delusional bullshit; believing an evil spirit is inside someone)take a look at quantum observatory effects--fucking fascinating.

Yes!

I just toyed around with a Mach-Zender experiment a few weeks ago and WOW... I was completely blown away. The notion of putting your hand in front of a lazer and seeing a spot on the wall get BRIGHTER is rediculous.

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Originally posted by Yohan ok. so what are your explanations to these so called exorcisms?

Dude. Are you totally not getting it? They are FAKE.

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Originally posted by DJ_Elyot Yes! I just toyed around with a Mach-Zender experiment a few weeks ago and WOW... I was completely blown away. The notion of putting your hand in front of a lazer and seeing a spot on the wall get BRIGHTER is rediculous.

if you cant spell laser or even ridiculous, you're probably better off just shutting up

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Originally posted by Yohan ok. so what are your explanations to these so called exorcisms?

1) there is not a SHRED OF SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE to validate exorcism or anything similiar.
2) until it's proven otherwise via controlled case studies, scientifically of course--not a bunch of anecdotes--I could not care less.

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Originally posted by El K Dee if you cant spell laser or even ridiculous, you're probably better off just shutting up

If you can't bother capitalizing your sentences, ending them with periods, and using apostrophes in your contractions, you're not much better. We don't bother proof-reading our posts because it's a waste of time, and you're no different.

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Originally posted by evil_cookie 1) there is not a SHRED OF SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE to validate exorcism or anything similiar. 2) until it's proven otherwise via controlled case studies, scientifically of course--not a bunch of anecdotes--I could not care less.

did you have a look at these so called exorcism clips on youtube?

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Originally posted by DJ_Elyot If you can't bother capitalizing your sentences, ending them with periods, and using apostrophes in your contractions, you're not much better. We don't bother proof-reading our posts because it's a waste of time, and you're no different.

i'm not the one trying to prove my intelligence the way you are

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Originally posted by Yohan did you have a look at these so called exorcism clips on youtube?

I wouldn't base my belief or non-belief of something in that at all. There are plenty of very reputable-looking books that will convincingly tell you about how to use rocks and crystals to cure diseases. Youtube is an even worse source.

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Originally posted by DJ_Elyot Dude. Are you totally not getting it? They are FAKE.

one helluva acting class they all must have taken

i dont know exorcisms are indeed real or not, but since i dont believe science has proven itself or developed sufficiently to answer all the phenomenons, i like to keep an open mind

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Originally posted by El K Dee i'm not the one trying to prove my intelligence the way you are

If you actually criticized my arguments, I might have something intelligent to say to you in reply. There is no need to turn this into a pissing match.

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Originally posted by DJ_Elyot I wouldn't base my belief or non-belief of something in that at all. There are plenty of very reputable-looking books that will convincingly tell you about how to use rocks and crystals to cure diseases. Youtube is an even worse source.

quite convenient when you can discredit evidence by claiming the source is flawed

edit: damn you people. i'm suppose to be packing for moving, not reading TA

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Originally posted by Yohan one helluva acting class they all must have taken i dont know exorcisms are indeed real or not, but since i dont believe science has proven itself or developed sufficiently to answer all the phenomenons, i like to keep an open mind

Fair enough. I justify my rejection of these notions for the same reason that I reject the notion of bigfoot, cthulu, or invisible pink unicorns. If something doesn't make any logical sense to me at all, I'd prefer to think it was false until proven otherwise. Probabilistically speaking, I think it's much more likely that ALL exorcism videos are fake than any of them are real.

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Originally posted by DJ_Elyot If you actually criticized my arguments, I might have something intelligent to say to you in reply. There is no need to turn this into a pissing match.

i dont want to read anything from you to me. really no point in it. i just dont approve of your "smarter than thou" attitude when you cant even comprehend the language you're using as your medium of communication

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Originally posted by Yohan quite convenient when you can discredit evidence by claiming the source is flawed edit: damn you people. i'm suppose to be packing for moving, not reading TA

Ah' come on Yohan--there is evidence, and then there is evidence.

I don't think we're actually in disagreement here; the three of us. I will call these events delusional insofar as I can conclude that the probability of the existence of evil spirits, and spirits taking control of a human body, are very,very,very,very low. My answer is simply based on our current standard model of logic and physics. Having said that, no, I can't rationally rule it out a 100 percent--so no worries Yohan, our minds are all open.

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Originally posted by Yohan quite convenient when you can discredit evidence by claiming the source is flawed edit: damn you people. i'm suppose to be packing for moving, not reading TA

I'm just saying, if you want me to believe, show me a repeatable experiment performed under controlled conditions that exhibits the phenomenon in question. If you can do that, then I'll gladly believe you. Youtube videos do not constitute proof, and the circumstantial evidence they provide is, in my opinion, extremely weak and unconvincing. Forgive me for being a skeptic. Maybe you find them more convincing.

Also, I don't necessarily think that acting is happening. Maybe those people really think they are being exorcised. Same as the acid in the bottle. Maybe the priest really thinks he's exorcising them. Doesn't mean it's really happening. Human brains are weird.

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Originally posted by DJ_Elyot Fair enough. I justify my rejection of these notions for the same reason that I reject the notion of bigfoot, cthulu, or invisible pink unicorns. If something doesn't make any logical sense to me at all, I'd prefer to think it was false until proven otherwise.

is it because it makes no logical sense, or because you just dont understand it?

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Probabilistically speaking, I think it's much more likely that ALL exorcism videos are fake than any of them are real.

they should all be hired by Hollywood eh? without any props and in front of lot of witnesses to pull off very convincing act... well, make at least a reality show out of it

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Originally posted by evil_cookie Ah' come on Yohan--there is evidence, and then there is evidence. I don't think we're actually in disagreement here; the three of us. I will call these events delusional insofar as I can conclude that the probability of the existence of evil spirits, and spirits taking control of a human body, are very,very,very,very low. My answer is simply based on our current standard model of logic and physics. Having said that, no, I can't rationally rule it out a 100 percent--so no worries Yohan, our minds are all open.

faith enough michael

i am now upset at science for failing to deliver all the answers

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Originally posted by DJ_Elyot I'm just saying, if you want me to believe, show me a repeatable experiment performed under controlled conditions that exhibits the phenomenon in question. If you can do that, then I'll gladly believe you. Youtube videos do not constitute proof, and the circumstantial evidence they provide is, in my opinion, extremely weak and unconvincing. Forgive me for being a skeptic. Maybe you find them more convincing.

that's the whole point of phenomenons and supernatural events. it is not produceable at snap of finger

well, i suppose you can get a bunch of imams and priests and 'demon possessed' people and stick them in a lab, but exactly what will that prove? (or disprove)

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Also, I don't necessarily think that acting is happening. Maybe those people really think they are being exorcised. Same as the acid in the bottle. Maybe the priest really thinks he's exorcising them. Doesn't mean it's really happening. Human brains are weird.

ah yes. exploring the unknown. adventures of science!

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Originally posted by Yohan is it because it makes no logical sense, or because you just dont understand it?

Well, do pink unicorns make sense? Maybe. I think people should be less inclusive in what they're willing to believe sometimes. Even defining belief is hard. But what science tells us is that if we have a model of the world and something comes around that is inconsistent with that model, then either it is false, or the model needs to be redefined. If the latter is true, we need to update our laws of physics to take ghosts and spirits into account (what kind of forces do they exert on the atoms and molecules in the brains of a human that is possessed? What forces cause these effects to vanish? etc.) We constantly do this; for example, some older models of quantum mechanics have been disproven experimentally in favour of quantum field theory. But to rewrite so much of physics to allow room for ghosts and spirits and exorcisms... this seems like an unlikely explanation.

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they should all be hired by Hollywood eh? without any props and in front of lot of witnesses to pull off very convincing act... well, make at least a reality show out of it

I bet they could do this and I bet it would sell. I'm pretty sure they already have.

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