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-- Vinyls vs. CDs
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quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 I have seen a disturbing trend amongst DJs who use CDs though. A lot of people are recording tracks at home onto CD in such a way that they don't have to beatmatch in the club... I stood behind Tall Paul and saw him play a whole set this way. I don't see the point in doing that... no fun. And that really isn't progress... that's Fisher Price mixing.

Nem I hear ya, It really concerns me as well. I play on Traktor and cop all kinds of crap for it from people who don't have a clue of what it takes to spin a killer set on Traktor. I work hard keeping things running spot on coz make no mistake there ain't hardly nothing automatic about it, you need a good ear not a good and working Traktor decks like they are vinyl is definitely an aquired art form and necessary to pull of a good set. That being said its absolutely possible to prep a set and run it pretty much on autopilot in a club. That is just wrong on so many levels tho...

Phil

i htink hes talkin like mix meister. u can get it to auto beat match then u cn burn the auto beatmatched files on a cd. its very simple. i use it when i burn cds.

i just got my set of pio cdj-100s with and efx 500 and a djm 300s mixer and i love all of it. I will eventually buy vinyl technichs when i get the cash but for right now i dont see anything wrong with spinnin on cds. if i can get the crowd moving as much as a dj on vinyl then it doenst matter.

quote:

Originally posted by DjTiberius i just got my set of pio cdj-100s with and efx 500 and a djm 300s mixer and i love all of it. I will eventually buy vinyl technichs when i get the cash but for right now i dont see anything wrong with spinnin on cds. if i can get the crowd moving as much as a dj on vinyl then it doenst matter.

Hear hear! It's all about the crowd and how they like the tunes. Not about your egos as an elitist "vinyl only" dj. Most of the big names now use CD's at least to some extent thanks to the great innovations from pioneer, and even technics is coming out with cd decks.

For someone like me who doesn't even have a great record store in town, and doesn't want to spend thousands buying vinyl over the internet, CD's and even mp3's with traktor is an absolutely huge step. It requires just as much talent and knowhow and musical sense to spin a great set in traktor or on CD's as it does on vinyl and honestly it's just as fun.

I do however agree on the whole automation topic. DJ'ing is supposed to be a "crowd interactive" sort of art. Not some mechanical do it the same every time "thing". DJ mixing software like traktor is a great tool because although it may have some attempts at "automation" they 1. don't work very well with variable beats and 2. don't have to be used. So basically you've got decks without all the hassle and a huge huge track collection to go with it.

Vinyl still has it's place, but the future of DJ'ing lies in having new technologies to make DJ'ing more convenient, not necessarily easier.

quote:

Originally posted by Thracky Most of the big names now use CD's at least to some extent thanks to the great innovations from pioneer, and even technics is coming out with cd decks. For someone like me who doesn't even have a great record store in town, and doesn't want to spend thousands buying vinyl over the internet, CD's and even mp3's with traktor is an absolutely huge step. It requires just as much talent and knowhow and musical sense to spin a great set in traktor or on CD's as it does on vinyl and honestly it's just as fun.

shame on you guys... why do you all want to be just like the ''big names'' I mean... who will ever really give a **** about what the others do? just be yourself, create your own style, and stop comparing yourself with others!
And.. a DJ who doesn't have enough money for vinyl? That's a lame-ass excuse, son. If you really want to be a DJ, spend money!

Phew

amen man... djing is the art of spending money... i work 40 hours and i blow it all on records. its part of the deal.

also... records are part of the persona, when you goto see a dj... please tell me you can be entertained watching him spin cd's.... there is no integrity...

DJ'ing has nothing to do with spending money. That's just your bullshit elitist "Vinyl or die" views. DJ'ing is about the music, period. End of discussion. That's all folks. There is NO other reason for DJ'ing.

If I want to DJ and I happen to have a bit of talent with it, yet I have absolutely no financially feasible way possible to purchase a full vinyl setup AND back that up with fresh vinyl every week, I would say that DJ'ing with mp3's or cd's is every bit as acceptable as dj'ing with vinyl. It's the same damn music, so cut the "I'm better than you because I can afford vinyl" bs and get over your damn egos.

And as far as "following the big names" considering we only have really 3 choices for how to dj, vinyl, cd's or mp3's, someone's gonna wind up doing the same thing. So I could say you guys are following all the big names by spinning vinyl etc etc. =P

quote:

Originally posted by Thracky DJ'ing has nothing to do with spending money. That's just your bullshit elitist "Vinyl or die" views. DJ'ing is about the music, period. End of discussion. That's all folks. There is NO other reason for DJ'ing. If I want to DJ and I happen to have a bit of talent with it, yet I have absolutely no financially feasible way possible to purchase a full vinyl setup AND back that up with fresh vinyl every week, I would say that DJ'ing with mp3's or cd's is every bit as acceptable as dj'ing with vinyl. It's the same damn music, so cut the "I'm better than you because I can afford vinyl" bs and get over your damn egos. And as far as "following the big names" considering we only have really 3 choices for how to dj, vinyl, cd's or mp3's, someone's gonna wind up doing the same thing. So I could say you guys are following all the big names by spinning vinyl etc etc. =P

Well my friend, if you dj for free, there is nothing wrong with playing with mp3's. But if you begin getting payed, that's just plain wrong.
If you really like dj'ing, there is nothing more satisfying than playing with vinyl from a pure joy point of view.
And for the money issue, if you don't have rich parents, then work for it.

Djing is a passion. If you are passionate enough, you will work for it 3-4 hours a day (a part time job).

Don't get me wrong, i've played around with Traktor, and at some extent, it's more powerful than a set of turntables and a mixer. But don't elude yourself, it's not 1/10th of the fun you have spinning vinyl.

quote:

Originally posted by Thracky DJ'ing has nothing to do with spending money. That's just your bullshit elitist "Vinyl or die" views. DJ'ing is about the music, period. End of discussion. That's all folks. There is NO other reason for DJ'ing. If I want to DJ and I happen to have a bit of talent with it, yet I have absolutely no financially feasible way possible to purchase a full vinyl setup AND back that up with fresh vinyl every week, I would say that DJ'ing with mp3's or cd's is every bit as acceptable as dj'ing with vinyl. It's the same damn music, so cut the "I'm better than you because I can afford vinyl" bs and get over your damn egos. And as far as "following the big names" considering we only have really 3 choices for how to dj, vinyl, cd's or mp3's, someone's gonna wind up doing the same thing. So I could say you guys are following all the big names by spinning vinyl etc etc. =P

DJing is about other things too, fun, maybe even a passion, or just to feel the excitement of the crowd.. ahh...

Man, you're so short-sighted!! Styles have nothing to do with the kind of records you're spinning with , but your style of music, your mixing-skills etc. Example: I use many ''moments of Silence'', and play Trance together with Hardstyle Beats, and other harder styles.

Who said I am a Vinyl or die? I sometimes use CD's too, on the occasion, or to play with the possibilities. I am better because I can afford vinyl..Yeah, right, like I said that, all I said was, that DJing costs money, and if you really want to be a DJ, you are willing to pay that money! Who's the one with ego's now, eh? So put that damn tongue back in your mouth!

Zero Tolerance

quote:

Originally posted by Zero_Tolerance DJing is about other things too, fun, maybe even a passion, or just to feel the excitement of the crowd.. ahh...

Then why is it so damn important to use vinyl? Let's not forget to mention that without the music there would be no DJ'ing. As far as I'm concerned the fact that it involves music is what makes me have fun with it and makes me passionate about it. If you don't like music, you won't be a dj or even think about being one.

quote:

Man, you're so short-sighted!! Styles have nothing to do with the kind of records you're spinning with , but your style of music, your mixing-skills etc. Example: I use many ''moments of Silence'', and play Trance together with Hardstyle Beats, and other harder styles.

Then why the hell did you bring up the "stop trying to be like everyone else" and "create your own style" in a discussion based PURELY on the medium in which the music is played? Next time, don't bring that weak shit and contradict yourself.

quote:

Who said I am a Vinyl or die? I sometimes use CD's too, on the occasion, or to play with the possibilities. I am better because I can afford vinyl..Yeah, right, like I said that, all I said was, that DJing costs money, and if you really want to be a DJ, you are willing to pay that money! Who's the one with ego's now, eh? So put that damn tongue back in your mouth!

You seem to be of the attitude in your earlier posts that to be a DJ you have to spend lots and lots of money and you have to buy vinyl.

quote:

And.. a DJ who doesn't have enough money for vinyl? That's a lame-ass excuse, son. If you really want to be a DJ, spend money!

What rule says I have to use equipment that costs me more money to be a DJ? Well apparently the same rule that says I have to spin vinyl so I can be cool like all the other DJ's. I also don't think when it comes down to it, that most people would realistically give up their food and home and car just to DJ.

And this has nothing to do with my ego whatsoever, so there was absolutely no point in bringing that up either. If I was an egocentric person I'd probably be saying something along the lines of "stop copying everyone else, be original with your style, and oh I can afford vinyl so my style owns yours" :P

(awaits the forthcoming flame)

quote:

Originally posted by Nou well as long as you dont get payed for playing mp3's or cd's u have burned from downloading, then its fine in my book. If you do get payed for stuff you got for free, thats pretty wrong. Like stealing books and movies from the library and selling them to people. It costs money to DJ, its a fact... when producers stop asking to be paid for the tracks they produce, then it will all be free. Anyways... I dont mean this to come off as a flame.

Heh I totally understand that aspect of it. If you are getting paid obviously you can save up some coin and buy vinyl. But starting out as a DJ with vinyl is extremely tough on a low budget especially considering the first few gigs you do will probably be for free. I would say if it's impossible for someone to become a DJ who spins vinyl right off the bat, it's entirely acceptable to spin MP3's or CD's until the financial situation improves. But if you can afford it, support the artists, cause without em we got no music.

quote:

Originally posted by Thracky Heh I totally understand that aspect of it. If you are getting paid obviously you can save up some coin and buy vinyl. But starting out as a DJ with vinyl is extremely tough on a low budget especially considering the first few gigs you do will probably be for free. I would say if it's impossible for someone to become a DJ who spins vinyl right off the bat, it's entirely acceptable to spin MP3's or CD's until the financial situation improves. But if you can afford it, support the artists, cause without em we got no music.

quote:

Originally posted by Thracky What rule says I have to use equipment that costs me more money to be a DJ? Well apparently the same rule that says I have to spin vinyl so I can be cool like all the other DJ's. I also don't think when it comes down to it, that most people would realistically give up their food and home and car just to DJ. And this has nothing to do with my ego whatsoever, so there was absolutely no point in bringing that up either. If I was an egocentric person I'd probably be saying something along the lines of "stop copying everyone else, be original with your style, and oh I can afford vinyl so my style owns yours" :P

Believe me, the best way to become good in DJing is to start using vinyl, that's why it's so ''damn important''. I see that you're financial sitution does not allow that, but... How d'ya think I started? With 2 damn cheap turntables, a mixer that originally belonged to my brother, and only a small collection of vinyl. And well, after a long a time I started to replace them. What I mean is, a turntable isn't that expensive.
There must be a market somewhere near your place, or else you can buy one on the internet. Records aren't that expensive either. And... I don't get paid. All I DJ for is for fun.

If some people didn't follow everybody else our beloved styles wouldn't be born.

Vinyl isn't about being cool, vinyl is what DJing started with, and vinyl is what DJing will end with! Don't you see... Music starts with the roots, and end with em, classic started with the piano, and ended with the piano being screwed by other instruments. There is an era of DJing, and when people start to all use CDs and MP3s, DJing will turn into <---fill your name in here---> Well, if I'm right, DJing will not end 'till I die, because Vinyl will always have the biggest place in my heart. I understand you use MP3s, now it's time for you to understand that I use vinyl.

Hmmm... I can be cool like all the other DJ's... are you saying that you're just DJing because you are trying to be cool? That would really suck.

Well, that was your flame for today

Zero Tolerance

provided the technology of cd's and cd tables are equivalent to vinyl, then its really all the same.
but... i like to talk about things in relations to analogies... so here i go;

vinyl vs cd's is kinda like warfare, in that the old style (vinyl) is like sword fighting, a bit romanticized and more revered for the 'artistic' nature. and cd's and cd tables are like common day laser guided missiles. you get more bang for your buck and have a wider variety of songs to play with.

so thats my analogy, today, and many many years later there will be people who are into fencing (fighting with swords) so vinyl wont go out either i dont think. but who gives a fuck what you use? does it matter if you use a vestax pdx2000 or technicmk5? no, not really, provided the features you are USING are equivalent. so who cares?

but for the record, im a vinly dj 100%

Mp3s, ok, Cds, OK, Vinyl, AWESOME...

But...

IT IS NEVER OK TO SPIN MUSIC U HAVENT BOUGHT LIVE. especially to a paying audience.

Keep dance music coming, dont let it die because kazaa is free and convinient. Keep ur local record store open, even if u do only by cds.

But dont steal, its one thing to download a pop stars song who has mad cash, but the dance market is not even close to be able to handle an mp3 takeover.

and if u still wanna dl dance, dont spin it live, unless uve bought it, come on, a lot of you produce and can definetly undersatnd what im getting at.

quote:

Originally posted by dinoXpress But dont steal, its one thing to download a pop stars song who has mad cash, but the dance market is not even close to be able to handle an mp3 takeover. and if u still wanna dl dance, dont spin it live, unless uve bought it, come on, a lot of you produce and can definetly undersatnd what im getting at.

Your saying its ok to download (steal) music from pop stars or whatever, as long as it's not dance music? is that what I'm understanding? Well, whatever you need to justify it to yourself. Either way, someone paid to produce the song, publish it and promote it, but because one's better known and possibly selling more, it's ok to steal from them?

u misread, i was saying, or i said it wrong, what im really sayin, is download all u want, but dont play mp3s live, and buy music sometimes too.

Assuming that vinyl burners were cheap, and blank vinyl was as cheap as blank CDRs, and assume that the burn quality of the vinyls were almost like pressed, would u guys still feel the same about buying real vinyls? I know some of u guys would still, but I'm still inclined to think that some of u would just burn it still.

CD VS VINYL??

NEITHER!! Laptops!! Digital Sound all the way!! Just like PVD does it!! lol

Nah, thats actually a hard question to answer. Vinyl was the original shit and what got it all started, but with todays technology, Ive noticed a lot of DJ's (NOT ALL) are now experimenting with cds and digital audio on the laptops, which makes the set and the music more easier to control.

Its funny when people use the excuse "BECAUSE ITS ORIGINAL" or "BECAUSE ITS SHOWING THE RESPECT", when it comes to using vinyl. Theres respect and its original whichever you go with guys, long as you dont overdue the downloading free shit from the internet and spinning tracks that havent been bought. Sure thats cheese.

But if you at least buy your cds or tracks you want to spin, then your not cheating yourself or the market and with that you are showing respect.

Vinyl is still around, but to those that said its illegal to spin custom made cds, thats not true. Theres a lot of clubs out there that actually have DJ's spinnin on cds as well with custom made cds.

Both. They both have +'s and -'s. In the end its all about the music, not what you play it on.

bah in my opinion ! a dj who spin with mp3 cd is not a real djs!! if you spin vinyl with cdr of your own production , thats kewl!!! but please dont spin mp3 cds!! if i see one day a dj spinning with mp3 cds in a club! it will be a plessure for me to throw him a rock in his face!

what about CDJ 1000's??? They are amazing!!! I used them and like them.

quote:

Originally posted by mjatas what about CDJ 1000's??? They are amazing!!! I used them and like them.

Those are the bomb. They will rip a new @$$hole in any turntable any day.

SUPREME POWER they are.

vinyl vs cd- its long but I hope your read it.

Here is a situation that I would like to share with all you that pour your heart and soul into the entire vinyl vs cd casam. I hope after reading this, those individuals will understand that it is not where you are from, but merely where you are at and that you must use all of your given aptitudes to succeed in this world, let alone as a DJ- whether it be to eat or as a hobby. Hope you enjoy it and once again, thanks for taking the time!

In the past 6 years, I have collected what is to me my pride and joy- My DJ Equipment. I have been djing for the last 10 years on and off starting off with one turntable and a radio shack mixer. When I headed for the Military, I sold my equipment to my friend with the option of buying them back- one technics, mixer, and vinyl not knowing what opportunities that lied upon graduation, hence all the traveling. (When you travel to other countries and see how other djs can rock the house using cds or vinyl and the crowd not even caring what the hell is being used. I have been fortunate to have been to places such as Japan, Tallinn, France.

All with at least one year living in those locations. During my 1st year 1998, I was posted in Japan, where hip-hop is a phenomenon. All the djs were playing records out in town at the clubs and in our club on Base; there was an American – Ex Marine, playing vinyl. There was another dj that was using cds only. Both rocked the house Fri and Sat. These were the spot to be before hitting the clubs. Everyone came on Base those nights. You could only imagine the babes- that is if you are interested in Japanese chicks. Anyway, that motivated me cause I saw the versatility in djing at that point. All I thought about was rocking the crowd. But unfortunately, I would have had to be employed by the base but I was not into seizing up my spare time with my limited experience as a club dj.

I headed back to the States in 1999 and I decided that vinyl was going to be a headache because I would not be able to access any stores. Not only that, being in the military, you come in contact with a lot of different individuals that like different music and that playing only hip hop or house available on vinyl was not worth it, let alone that a lot of the Military is from the Dirty South and me being from NY, well, let us just leave it at that. So, I brought my first cdj 500 and a vestex mixer. I used a walk man to attach to the mixer and called that my set.

Then after, being the visionary that I am- which is one key to success; I brought the sp808 Roland sampler. I began doing remixes here and there and having local djs play them at clubs. After that success, prior to shipping off to Japan for a second tour in Iwakuni, I decided that I was not going to miss out on anything. I brought my second cdj500 and the pioneer efx 500 and 1 technics from my friend in October of 2000. Upon my arrival, the first thing I did is went to the Club on base and see there set up. It was a Gemini 19” rack with Gemini dual cd players. Well, I had been collecting cds so I figured that it could not be that bad. I talked to the Manager and said that he would give me a shot but I had to weight for my equipment to come in. I needed the practice cause I did not want to make a fool out of myself without any experience.

That weekend, I was syked about heading to the club on Base. I got there and that mama was so packed. The dj was putting it on and every body was loving it. All with only cds. That is what the club only had. So, after a month, my shipment came in and asked again for a date. The Manager started bull-ishing and saying that he did not want competition between his main dj and me. So, I was like forget this, let me do my own thing. I have my equipment, let me start doing gigs out in town. I started going to the clubs out in town and one in particular that everyone went to. I had a friend that new the manager and he asked if I could do the New Years party. That was a go ahead. So, now, I had 3 weeks to prepare my sounds.

I had some crooklyn party breaks and had started a record pool along with promo only since that October back in the states. So, I had the music. It was now all about perfecting my mixing and club dj skills. No more bedroom djing for Colione. Also, one will notice that if you are a dj and you travel, you are appreciated more so overseas then in the States. You can actually approach a dj in the booth and ask him questions. More than likely, they will even invite you to do a set.
That was the case in all the countries I visited and that is the honest truth. For some reason, being a dj in other countries is a way to bond and share experiences. Especially if you are from the States cause they think you have something fresh. Anyway, to get back, I got ready for the gig and New Years came. I lugged all my equipment and used their amp. I had so much stuff at this point that I had to provide my own table. I had a Numark mixer, 2 cdj 500's, a pioneer effector, sp808, one technic 1200, a cd case and a crate of records. I was set and the show was a blast. A Dj's dream come true. It was something new to them, something fresh. I brought my New York style but had a little something for everyone.

Anyway, after that party I started getting hungry and had drive. I was asking the local djs to throw some shows with me. They all were like yea, yea, we will do something. After all that non-active bull ish, I was set to do something on my own. Luckily, I hooked up with this other cat on base that had only vinyl and played only Reggae. I offered him to join me and get something started. It was about doing our thing but more so to show those suckers off. Co-incidentally, both being from Queens, New York, we could not rid that battle mentality. Anyhow, I finally went to this "buy me drinkie bar"- a place where you pay for a drink and to have a lady sit with you just to talk. There were other clubs near by but they were bars that played hip-hop and small. This place was perfect in that it had lots of room to dance and good seating areas.

So, I started conducting business with the lady that ran the place. I offered to rent a night. She directed me to the owner. I sat and talked to him. At first he refused. He was more interested in the money. I said all we needed was the entrance fees. He came to his senses and figured that if I could pull a crowd, since there was nowhere else to go near by, then he could make some loot off the bar. The price came to $1,200. So, the date was set. I recruited a manager and others to split the cost 4 ways and help promote the gig and collect at the door plus provide security. I made the flyers and worked like a thief in the night to post them up in the Barracks and out in town.

The day came but unfortunately, there was an event on the same night on Base. We lugged all of our equipment, I brought mine and my partner brought his. Together, our set up was his 2 black 1210’s, his djm 500, my effector and my cdj500s. The boards were lit and up. My partner and me sat in the back room sipping on rum and cokes waiting desperately and nervous. We were not sure if anyone would show up. Plus, that is is $1,200.00 bucks invested. I looked at my watch and the time on deck said midnight. All but 7 people were in the place to be. But, I got word from my runner that I employed to check on the base and pass the word about our party. He said that the show was ending on base and everyone was making there way out. Before you know it, there was a long line at the door and my peoples were collecting like bank teller machines.

The gig went on. There were so many people. People that never went out before came to this new event. All the Japanese rich chicks came to see the new spot. This was the best I tell you. Anyway, we did a couple more and the owner started seeing that we were making more at the door than he was and started raising the price. Other things went on but not to be disclosed.

Anyway, my time was up and made a name for myself across the city. My next post was providing Diplomatic Security in March of 2002. I up graded my equipment and got a sweet deal on the djm 600 black version for only $800.00. It was 220 voltages but I got a converter switch for on $10.00 to use for 110 voltages. I brought another technic and a computer for remixing and the Boss Sp 505. To make it short, I pretty much did the same thing except for rent out a club. I basically hooked up with all the djs, got some airtime on the radio-, which was located in one of the clubs, made two promo cds at 500 copies a piece that got bootlegged and sold without me getting any thing from it.

Now, as of May 2003 to present and where the real lesson lies, I moved here, bordering Bangkok, Thailand. I once again, being a dj as a hobby, got in good with the djs. I up graded my equipment. I sold my cdj 500’s and brought the cdj800’s and brought the new sure white label needles. I switched my music dj preference to house. I started being a guest dj at a club. The only problem is that this country has turntables, but since it is a third world country, vinyl is not easily accessible accept for Thailand but it is too far. Hence, no one uses turntables. They use strictly cd players, which by the way are top of the line cause they get it from Singapore. Anyway, every month, I would have to lug my turntables just to do a gig.

I started going to other clubs and eventually became good with all the djs. The problem is that I started ordering my records online and now I have only new tracks on vinyl. I would go to the clubs and get on the mic and immediately, I would be asked to do a set. But unfortunately, I was limited cause I had no sounds but the same trash on cd. What was a brother to do? What would you do? As I stated before, being the visionary that I am, I started recording my vinyl to cd. I now record 12-15 tracks per cd and duplicate that cd in order to mix with in. Is this a waste, well, if I am getting the job done and it is not killing me, then no. Not in my opinion.

The only problem now lies in the sound quality. Vinyl has a lot of popping and crackling and they are use to cd sound in which I am yet to get rid of unless I am mastering a promo cd. Now, to all the strictly vinyl heads that swear that one is not a dj unless you spin vinyl, what would you do? Mind you, I have job and a salary. I don’t do these gigs for payment cause it is not allowed under my diplomatic status. I do it for the love and so when I get out of the M.C. I can say that I have something under my belt and carry on the mission in owning my own café. I know that having both cds and vinyl is expensive. No one says that you have to have the top of the line equipment. These days, companies are getting carried away with all the accessories. But if you are proficient at both, the basic systems, then what can stop you. If you know a little about everything, then that makes you that much better of a dj. That makes you prepared for all occasions. How do you think most djs get their gigs? By having a one sided tracked mind? I also understand that depending where you are, especially in the states, you can’t just get in good with the Djs, but if you do, then you better be willing to be able to put out.

Think about this, if you limit your self to one piece of gear, then what purpose do you serve as a dj. There is no order in the rules of djing that states that you must strictly be a vinyl head or cd head. It is about rocking the crowd no matter how you do it. About using your arsenal.. Do me one

Ibiza Spain, one of the best party spots in the world, not to prove a point and mock vinylist, but only to to back up the digital scene for being bashed as non djs, some djs in Ibiza use strickly cds and have a residency at the one of the Worlds Greatest party gauges!!!

I am sorry it took so long but I hope you enjoyed it. Thanks for your patience!

Wow! You sure put a lot of effort into that. I'm not too sure what to say or how to respond but, uh... thanks, I guess.

KB,
Being the "visionary" you are, you should have had that post published in paperback.

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