TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont.
-- The illegal war is on :: denounce America’s imperialism !
Pages (24): « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 [11] 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 »

i haven't followed the thread right from start, so most of the things i'll mention here have probably been beaten to death, but anyway, i can't resists jumping in on this... ok, lets see...

quote:

Originally posted by dEsidEL to the pro-war TOTA's: how successful will a post Saddam government be in Iraq (considering rival Shiite, Suni, and Kurdish Muslim groups)? referring to this article: http://www.time.com/time/world/arti...00.html?cnn=yes

kurds shouldn't be worried about saddam, they should be worried about turkey (remember the genocide that was committed on them by turkey? i can't remember the exact figure, i know that the number was really high) and isn't it convenient how now turkey can continue that genocide since US allowed them to go into northern iraq in exchange for using turkey's airspace and $30 billion... oh yeah, thats great democracy/politics... but thats ok, you won't hear that on cnn or anywhere else on US tv, so it must not be true then, right?

quote:

Originally posted by oceanlab i didn't even want to get involved but it just makes me mad that people are so ignorant sometimes. the war is clearly legal and justified.

i fail to see how it is LEGAL and JUSTIFIED... please elaborate on this...

quote:

why is saddam firing cruise missiles if he said he didn't have any?

and

quote:

A person with an IQ over 30 would realize that to the rid the country of weapons of mass destruction there would need to be a regime change and that this in turn would free the Iraqi people.

first of all, he never had cruise missiles... second of all, the first gulf war destroyed 98% of iraq's infrastructure, and with iraq being under sanctions for the past 12 years, where would he get the resources or the industry to build up his chem/bio/nuke weapons, or anything else even remotely having to do with his military... which brings up another point, now that the coalition forces have closed in on baghdad, why haven't we seen any of those "weapons of mass destruction", that iraq allegedly posseses, brought out and shown to the public?

quote:

Originally posted by oceanlab I still think Iraq needs to be changed. I don't really give a fu.ck who does it, but it seems that only the US has balls. So maybe, and this is gonna piss you off, maybe the US deserves to take that OIL (not that they are, and you DON'T know otherwise because it hasn't happened yet), maybe they deserve to take it as a reward for liberating a nation that is wartorn and bankrupt despite the obvious wealth they possess.

that was the most ignorant comment i've read in a long time... good job, it must have taken you a lot of time glued in front of cnn to come up with that...

quote:

Originally posted by sexy_manbeast The US do have weapons of mass destruction but they haven't taken over any country such as Iraq had done to Kuwait.

they don't have to take over anything, why would they? it's much easier to topple a goverment that doesn't conform to them, put in place their own people and begin the explotation of that country's resources and people...

TranceGeek: all of your questions and delusions have been covered in the previous pages.

as to the events that have unfolded in the past 24 hours, marines have taken casualties resulting from incidents involving surrender flags being raised followed minutes later by artillery fire which hit troops moving in to take POW. that's pretty fu.cked up. i wouldn't expect the allied forces to hold back, after today, from firing on Iraqis that are attempting to surrender. also as to parading the corpses and hostages taken from an attack on US servicemen (not combatants) in rear supply chains, well that is just something i expect from the sand rodents who rule Iraq.

quote:

Originally posted by oceanlab TranceGeek: all of your questions and delusions have been covered in the previous pages.

just like everyone else outside of US is deluded too, right?

quote:

Originally posted by TranceGeek just like everyone else outside of US is deluded too, right?

no, not right, i hope you don't actually think that.

and maybe if you took the time to read everything that has been said here, maybe you wouldn't think that everyone that supports the war watches cnn and loves bush.

quote:

Originally posted by oceanlab no, not right, i hope you don't actually think that.

i don't, you do though...

quote:

and maybe if you took the time to read everything that has been said here, maybe you wouldn't think that everyone that supports the war watches cnn and loves bush.

see if that were true, you wouldn't be so keen on supporting this agression...

quote:

Originally posted by Ray_Finkle Sorry rabbitjoker, what you just said makes too much sense to be in this thread. Also, LKD, you think that because I have no experiance living in the middle east makes me automatically wrong and you concede to the exact same points that I make when other people ask you. Is it really hard to type something into google and find out some information on it. Honestly LKD, you have contributed nothing of relevence to this thread. Am I and others just supposed to take your word for it that something happened? Of course not. You were the one that initiated all the derogatory remarks in this thread and sent it off course. As I was looking back a couple of pages, I even see that you start calling oceanlab a "racist" when what he said had clearly nothing to do with him being racist. I don't know what else I can do here. I am obviously not here to try and tell you that your opinions are wrong, I as well as others that are on this side of the debate are merely trying to explain our point and we are doing that with quotes. I would love for you to justify your side. I would really love it, but you aren't giving any proof. Would you write a formal english essay on Shakespeare without referencing the text? No, you would get burned for it. That's what you are doing. The only one being juvenile here is you and not only is it hurting your credibility, but it is also hurting your side's ability to get its message out. You can call me a sperm or whatever all you like but the fact of the matter remains, HOW WOULD YOU GO ABOUT GETTING SADDAM OUT OF POWER. ANSWER THIS SIMPLE QUESTION.

First of all...please tell me when the fuck did u give a damn about people living in countries miles away which dont affect u?

i ask this question because the supposed reason for this war is now to "free the iraqi people"

if sanctions werent thrown on Iraq, they would e ina far better condition...

since u find it so hard to think for urself and actually look deep into any information written, i looked for info to give u...u will spend a minimum of 4 ohurs going thru everything on this site.

if u are not convinced 24 hours from now that the war is wrong, it means u didnt read it. if u dont read it, it just proves my point that ur a stubborn, barbaric prick who simply assumes things because someone tells u.

heres the site: http://electroniciraq.net

heres some more readings by legit writers with a bibliography included:
1. http://merip.org/iraq_backgrounder_...ound2_merip.pdf

2. http://electroniciraq.net/uploads/paxchristi-nl.pdf (about the humanitarian effects of war on iraq)read page 3 carefully

Quote from second article:
There can be no doubt that the political goals of the US extend further than resolution 1441. A war in Iraq would serve two American goals. A regime change would mean a success for, and thus a strong underpinning of, Bush’s pre-emptive-strike doctrine. In the second place, an Iraq operating under an American aegis can take over Saudi Arabia’s role as determining factor in world oil prices, which would reduce Saudi Arabia’s influence on American policy in the Middle East, in particular with regard to Israel.

im not even gonna bother replying to any of ur redundant remarks anymore cos ur not going to change and im not on a mission to change ur oversaturated head

Read this article in the TorontoStar
http://www.torontostar.ca/NASApp/cs...ol=968793972154
and look at the picture of the severly burned child
and then tell me how you can justify this war you SICK FUCKS!
This is what you call Liberation, this is what you call freedom?

Crap I just noticed this...
"Electronic Iraq is a news portal on the US-Iraq crisis published by veteran antiwar campaigners Voices in the Wilderness and respected Middle East supplementary news publishers, the Electronic Intifada."

LKD, what the fuck are you thinking posting a site published by the Electronic Intifada? I'm not even going to consider reading this garbage.

quote:

Originally posted by DJLocoMoco Read this article in the TorontoStar http://www.torontostar.ca/NASApp/cs...ol=968793972154 and look at the picture of the severly burned child and then tell me how you can justify this war you SICK FUCKS! This is what you call Liberation, this is what you call freedom?

Iraq brought this war on themselves. It's not America that is the enemy here, it's tyrants like Sadam.

Furthermore, the life of a child (however tragic) is not worth the lives of thousands in future and past terrorist attacks.

quote:

Originally posted by USMC_Greg Iraq brought this war on themselves. It's not America that is the enemy here, it's tyrants like Sadam. Furthermore, the life of a child (however tragic) is not worth the lives of thousands in future and past terrorist attacks.

You imply that after the US "liberates" Iraq there will be no terrorist attacks.

This excuse for the loss of innocent lives is not valid.

got this in an email...


new American national anthem which Bush might try to impose:
(sing to the tune of "if ur happy and u know it")

If You're Happy And You Know It - Bomb Iraq
If you cannot find Osama, bomb Iraq.
If the terrorists are frisky,
Pakistan is looking shifty,
North Korea is too risky,
Bomb Iraq.

If we have no allies with us, bomb Iraq.
If we think that someone's dissed us, bomb Iraq.
So to h*ll with the inspections,
Let's look tough for the elections,
Close your mind and take directions,
Bomb Iraq.

It's pre-emptive non-aggression, bomb Iraq.
To prevent this mass destruction, bomb Iraq.
They've got weapons we can't see,
And that's all the proof we need,
If they're not there, they must be,
Bomb Iraq.

If you never were elected, bomb Iraq.
If your mood is quite dejected, bomb Iraq.
If you think Saddam's gone mad,
With the weapons that he had,
And he tried to kill your dad,
Bomb Iraq.

If corporate fraud is growin', bomb Iraq.
If your ties to it are showin', bomb Iraq.
If your politics are sleazy,
And hiding that ain't easy,
And your manhood's getting queasy,
Bomb Iraq.

Fall in line and follow orders, bomb Iraq.
For our might knows not our borders, bomb Iraq.
Disagree? We'll call it treason,
Let's make war not love this season,
Even if we have no reason,
Bomb Iraq

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Crap I just noticed this... "Electronic Iraq is a news portal on the US-Iraq crisis published by veteran antiwar campaigners Voices in the Wilderness and respected Middle East supplementary news publishers, the Electronic Intifada." LKD, what the fuck are you thinking posting a site published by the Electronic Intifada? I'm not even going to consider reading this garbage.

hmm not even gonna consider huh/??

quote:

Originally posted by DJ El Kay Dee hmm not even gonna consider huh/??

Consider reading something by the Electronic Intifada? Do you have any idea who they are? Frankly, I'm a little insulted that you'd even mention their name on a public forum. You better watch it dude, the US/Iraq war is one thing and I plan to stay the hell out of these arguments (I repeat, I have not stated and will not state any personal opinion about the war itself), but anything related to intifada (or its electronic political equivalent) is one piece of territory you DO NOT want to be heading down into...

Please, for the sake of myself and my ancestry and possibly that of several other TA's, do not mention another word in public about this "organization." You cannot even imagine how disgusted I was to see those words at the top of that website.

quote:

Originally posted by Time2Burn You imply that after the US "liberates" Iraq there will be no terrorist attacks. This excuse for the loss of innocent lives is not valid.

your contradiction is not valid

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer so I guess you are a damn terrorist too by supporting Bush!! and yes be scared VERY scared,U thought Sep 11 was bad huh?future doesnt look good for the Americans,they just got themselves more enemy and more people will hate them now,so be ready for more terrorist attacks!!ooh and wait till the casualities start to rise,in this war. and yes I will blow myself up if it means to save my country ,are u scared??gooooooooo

Getting scared means the terrorists would win. Americans have an opportunity to neutralize a threat, and they jumped on it. Lets be honest here, if Bush didn't do anything he'd be getting even more flack.

quote:

and you said Bush is protecting the American intrest intrest,so then fuck the world,and let them attack any counties they want,just to protect their intrest!! god I HATE Americans.

You are finally getting it now. If I was in Bush's position I would do anything possible to secure the lives whom I represent.

quote:

and you are saying that the idiot Bush is a good leader because he is listening to his own people??mmmm then why isnt he doing something about their own problems??how about Kyoto??ooh wait thats not in their intrest.

In case you missed it, the U.S. was attacked by terrorists on September 11th 2001. If you think that terrorism isn't "their own problem" then you are an idiot.

Kyoto? That's not an American problem. That's a world problem.

quote:

and you said this war has nothing to do with islam maybe,but try to explain this to people in Iraq or other counties who got fucked by the American Gov.

WTF? The Americans have fucked many other countries that are not islamic.

quote:

and I wont stop praying,because the U.S should get the fuck out of middle east,they ruining the region.

Seems like the region did a pretty good job of that on their own.

quote:

and you probably gonna tell me the Iraqi people are waiting for the Americans in Baghdad to celebrate their freedom right?

The Iraqies have been brainwashed for the last 30 years. Ten years down the road I think the Iraqi people will be content with a Saddam-less state.

quote:

every Iraqi person I talk to told me that having Americans in their country is their worst nightmare.

meh

quote:

so you can call me whatever the hell you want,but Iam not afraid to speak my mind,and you think I am a terrorist then you better watch out

If you do any terrorist act I hope you get sent to jail and made to be someone's bitch for the rest of your life. And isn't killing yourself against Islam? Ohhhhhhhh you're so going to hell.

I usually get involved in subjects like this. And I could get involved but there is no point in arguing cuz you can't change an ignorant fucks mind!

All I have to say is "Terrorist Win"
Every played the game? CS haha...

LONDON TIMES: "WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION FOUND"

apparently about 90 miles south of Baghdad, lets defend Saddam some more...cmon LKD, cmon you fuking peace pussies...defend a mass murderer!!!

Oceanlab, calm down with the insults. It doesn't help anyone's arguement. Anyways....Apparantly some scottish troops found a lot of illegal weapons....THAT CAME FROM RUSSIA (one of the countries threatening a veto in the UNSC)

http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/arc...103-0-47-6.html

comments? The Herald is usually a good source but I still would like to see some more sites pick up on this. Also....
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast...lant/index.html

suspected chemical plant found. That and the Iraqi's violating every single word of the Geneva Convention sure doesn't win them any public support other than the ignorant anti-americans

quote:

Originally posted by oceanlab LONDON TIMES: "WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION FOUND" apparently about 90 miles south of Baghdad, lets defend Saddam some more...cmon LKD, cmon you fuking peace pussies...defend a mass murderer!!!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the 18 pages of this thread I did not see one person "defend" Saddam. We're all in agreement that Saddam needs to be removed from power, the debate lies in whether or not we support the means by which this is being done.

As for the WMD they haven't confirmed anything yet, they suspect the building may have been used as a chemical plant.

I think that Hardcore_Trancer dude was. He was saying stuff about coming over to the states and killing innocent americans or something. I don't think he counts though because I'm sure he was a gimmick.

Anyways, what are everyone's views on the TV footage of the POWs? I believe that it violates the Geneva convention to show footage or something like that. Looks like the Iraqi's are throwing that accord right our the window...

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Electronic Intifada stuff

What's the deal with this group? I'm curious. Are they a bunch of exremist radicals?

quote:

Originally posted by Ray_Finkle Anyways, what are everyone's views on the TV footage of the POWs? I believe that it violates the Geneva convention to show footage or something like that. Looks like the Iraqi's are throwing that accord right our the window...

i dont see anything wrong because they were showing POWs from the Iraqi side being pressed face in the sand and cuffed etc. and sitting in lines ...so its even on both sides....moreover the Iraqi POWs surrendered.

its a huge gray area there because if US feels that Iraq should comply with the Geneva convention, it should be mutual.


as for oceanlab....the only source that says the lab was found is only the london times. it isnt mentioned even on reuters. could be true, could be false.

but the point of our anti war idea is not because we support terrorism, but we support innocent until proven guilty.

now if it was so easy for them to find a lab, wouldnt the inspectors have found it too??

its possible that its a lab but could be a lab for other means and not for weapons.

quote:

Originally posted by Ray_Finkle What's the deal with this group? I'm curious. Are they a bunch of exremist radicals?

I call them Spin Doctors. They come up with "facts" but don't bother to quote any sources... I think on the rare occasions when I've actually found a reference, I've checked that reference and found that they did some interesting "paraphrasing" or just omitted very important details.

Now I will say no more about them, or anything else in this thread; I did not mean to get involved at all, just got a little apprehensive when I heard this group mentioned.

quote:

Originally posted by Ray_Finkle What's the deal with this group? I'm curious. Are they a bunch of exremist radicals?

they are basically activists against america and against israel..


however the reason why i posted it is beacuse:
1. its the opposite biased side (which should be compared with the local news to find the mid point for that fraction of truth)
2. because there were a few articles written by non arabs which are extremely unbiased in it and prove my point that both sids are equally wrong yet the war is not the answer

The iraqi troops have been "surrenduring" only to ambush the US troops when they come in and try to take them as POWs as stated under the Geneva convention.

also, does this look like the humanitarian way of dealing with POWs?
http://cm.emptyspaces.net/war/aljaz...jazeera0032.jpg
http://cm.emptyspaces.net/war/aljaz...jazeera0029.jpg

I would hate to be the american troops right now.

Although you do bring up an interesting point. Where the americans violating the geneva convention when they showed the iraqi POWs. I'm not sure. I will have to read the geneva convention before i make any more accusations on either side

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.