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where is your evidence?

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Originally posted by Heinz u have no idea of the concept of god's mercy. u havnt the faintest clue. jesus died for OUR SIN. SO THAT WE COULD BECOME RIGHTEOUS. because only the righteous are allowed into heaven. sin is sin. unlike humans, god views all sin the same, as equal. therefore, lying is the same as murder, to god. that is why ANYONE CAN BECOME SAVED. this was the exact arguement between the pharisees and jesus. the pharisees doctrine was to judge people based on the seriousness of their sin, which u are indirectly saying in this post. but jesus's message was for EVERYONE. the sick, healthy, poor, and rich, criminal, or law-abiding citizen. it doesnt matter who you are, or what u have done, if u accept jesus as your lord, and personal savior, savior from sin, hell, then your plate is wiped clean...u are reborn, from your sinful, hopeless, lost living, to the hope of eternal life. something we all should look forward.

Sigh, and you haven't the faintest clue of what I was referring to in my post do you? Please start from the beginning. K thanks.

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Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 Fine,you can go to hell in a handbasket,but I'm not going with you. It's your choice what happens to your soul,but I warn you. Choose wisely, Despite what you think. I do care what happens to you,and everyone here. It's not hypocrisy. Sin is sin,my friend. There is no,Big sin,no little sin. It's just the consequence for each sin is different. Trust me,each person will pay for every sin they've committed. One way,or another. Personally,I don't care how long it takes a person to realize they need the Lord. If it has to be on their death bed,then so be it. But, I pray they get to heaven. God is good,God is fair. Life isn't fair,I think you are getting the two mixed up here. If you ask for forgiveness for your sins,God will forgive you. Of course,you must learn from your mistake,that's very important. But, The fact of the matter here is. Good deeds will not get you to heaven.It's only by the saving grace of God you'll get to heaven. There's an old saying "The pathway to hell is paved with good intentions " ever heard it? We all sin, we're all sinners. But, it's a matter of if you learn from those mistakes,and ask for forgiveness. I hope you really read what I'm saying,and really think about it here before it's to late.

Nellie, have u ever heard of Calvinism?? It is a doctrine that John Calvin had come up with, though it is controversial. he states, that God has already decided who will accept christ and who wont. that there are people who are destined to be saved, and those who will never be saved. it kind of makes sense here in this forum. some people simply, dont care, love this world too much, or simply hate god, because of him, they cant do what they want, without the feeling of guilt, subconsious or not.

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Originally posted by Heinz Nellie, have u ever heard of Calvinism?? It is a doctrine that John Calvin had come up with, though it is controversial. he states, that God has already decided who will accept christ and who wont. that there are people who are destined to be saved, and those who will never be saved. it kind of makes sense here in this forum. some people simply, dont care, love this world too much, or simply hate god, because of him, they cant do what they want, without the feeling of guilt, subconsious or not.

I do believe I have heard of it once or twice. But, I'm thinking you knew what I meant when I said what I said.

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Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 Fine,you can go to hell in a handbasket,but I'm not going with you. It's your choice what happens to your soul,but I warn you. Choose wisely, Despite what you think. I do care what happens to you,and everyone here.

Fine. Well I choose to be a morally upstanding citizen and if that's not enough to gain acceptance into valhalla than so be it. At least I'll have the satisfaction of knowing that I was a far better "christian" than the countless number of priests flolicking up in heaven simply because they recant on their death beds or whatever.

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It's not hypocrisy. Sin is sin,my friend. There is no,Big sin,no little sin. It's just the consequence for each sin is different. Trust me,each person will pay for every sin they've committed. One way,or another. Personally,I don't care how long it takes a person to realize they need the Lord. If it has to be on their death bed,then so be it. But, I pray they get to heaven.

No see it IS a hypocrisy. A buddhist monk who has been good goes to hell while a pedophile priest confesses on his death bed goes to heaven? Ignoring all belief systems, is it morally RIGHT to reward an evil individual whilst gauranteeing the damnation of a good person in the afterlife?

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God is good,God is fair. Life isn't fair,I think you are getting the two mixed up here. If you ask for forgiveness for your sins,God will forgive you. Of course,you must learn from your mistake,that's very important.

Right well if God is FAIR then he will admit everyone who is good into heaven. Simple as that.

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Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Yes. Thank you. So I guess I can go ahead and murder, rape, and cut up into pieces innocent people as long as I accept Jesus some time before I die. Cool. I guess I DO actually like this Christian God afterall. I mean, if he allows men to do it to innocent concubines like they did in Judges 19:22-30, why can't I? Yea Christianity!

I don't think its that easy.This is how i would see it. first of all, lets say your a rapist, murderer, theif, the works eh. Then when you are dying you truly repent and ask for forgiveness because your sinful actions. Finally you die. You don't go to heaven however, you will probably go to purgatory and let the flames wash away your sins and then go to heaven. I dont agree with Nellie's way of seeing how God judges people. Im sure a buddhist monk would have a much better chance of going to heaven than a catholic priest who raped a boy. In my opinion, each individual would be judged according to the decisions,morals, and the way they managed their lives and not the religion or ideals they decided to follow. However no one can really tell if there is a God and even if there was, no one knows how he would judge.

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Originally posted by occrider I'm surprised more people aren't jumping on this silliness. Nessa, is it moral and/or just for a God to exclude those who have been good their entire lives yet merely fail to accept Jesus Christ while admitting a prolific sinner to heaven simply because he confesses his sins prior to death?

Well yes, according to the Bible, when Jesus was in the cross with two murderers at his sides, one of them believed he was the savior and told him to forgive him. Jesus replied than from that day, he was already with him in the kingdom of heaven.

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Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 Of course we all know this is fake. Mainly, because you can't look God in the face. It's not possible,we're way to unholy.

nessie, i find your logic a little off the path. through becoming righteous by our gift of the holy spirit and accepting jesus, we are made holy. we become children of god!

Luke 20:36
and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God's children, since they are children of the resurrection.

John 1:12
Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God�
-------------

This is what jesus said of his origon from god.

John 8:42
Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.

BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THE OUTCOME IS THE SAME

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Originally posted by Heinz Nellie, have u ever heard of Calvinism?? It is a doctrine that John Calvin had come up with, though it is controversial. he states, that God has already decided who will accept christ and who wont. that there are people who are destined to be saved, and those who will never be saved. it kind of makes sense here in this forum. some people simply, dont care, love this world too much, or simply hate god, because of him, they cant do what they want, without the feeling of guilt, subconsious or not.

Hmmm. More or less negates the notion of free will doesn't it? So which is it? Free will or not?

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Originally posted by occrider No see it IS a hypocrisy. A buddhist monk who has been good goes to hell while a pedophile priest confesses on his death bed goes to heaven? Ignoring all belief systems, is it morally RIGHT to reward an evil individual whilst gauranteeing the damnation of a good person in the afterlife?

He who rejects God,is evil.
A pedophile can't make it into heaven if he hasn't repented for his sin,and asked Jesus to come into his heart as his Lord and Savior,you keep leaving that detail out.

Jesus said " I am the light and the way, none come to the Father,but through me."

So it ISN'T Hypocrisy.

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Right well if God is FAIR then he will admit everyone who is good into heaven. Simple as that.

Since when do we get to tell God who goes into heaven,and who doesn't?

You can be good,but that doesn't mean you are saved. Big difference.

To add, if you think you have to DO something to get to heaven,that's like slapping God in the face because He sent His son so you didn't have to do anything,except to ask Jesus into your heart.

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Originally posted by Heinz nessie, i find your logic a little off the path. through becoming righteous by our gift of the holy spirit and accepting jesus, we are made holy. we become children of god!

We are sinful though, We aren't able to look into God's face.

To change one of my favorite phrases from work (Less talk, more work):

Less post, more thought!



MrS

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Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 He who rejects God,is evil. A pedophile can't make it into heaven if he hasn't repented for his sin,and asked Jesus to come into his heart as his Lord and Savior,you keep leaving that detail out. Jesus said " I am the light and the way, none come to the Father,but through me." So it ISN'T Hypocrisy.

Sigh ... and he who accepts God is good? Please, spare me the petty generalizations. Being good is not defined by a belief in God just as much as not believing in God does not define evil.

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Since when do we get to tell God who goes into heaven,and who doesn't?

READ what I said. It wasn't a command for God, it was a CONDITIONAL. IF god is just, he would reward those who have done good in life while punishing the wicked. NOT the other way around.

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You can be good,but that doesn't mean you are saved. Big difference.

Alright, I'll play this silly bible quoting game ... even though I feel stupider for doing it.



"When the Son of Man comes as King and all the angels with him, he will sit on his royal throne, and the people of all the nations will be gathered before him. Then he will divide them into two groups, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the righteous people at his right and the others at his left.

"Then the King will say to the people on his right, "Come, you that are blessed by my Father! Come and possess the kingdom which has been prepared for you ever since the creation of the world. I was hungry and you fed me, thirsty and you gave me a drink; I was a stranger and you received me in your homes, naked and you clothed me; I was sick and you took care of me, in prison and you visited me.'
The righteous will then answer him, "When, Lord, did we ever see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you a drink? 38 When did we ever see you a stranger and welcome you in our homes, or naked and clothe you? 39 When did we ever see you sick or in prison, and visit you?'

"The King will reply, "I tell you, whenever you did this for one of the least important of these followers of mine, you did it for me!'"

(Matthew Ch 25)

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To add, if you think you have to DO something to get to heaven,that's like slapping God in the face because He sent His son so you didn't have to do anything,except to ask Jesus into your heart.

THAT'S DOING SOMETHING!

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Originally posted by occrider THAT'S DOING SOMETHING!

IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.

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Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 To add, if you think you have to DO something to get to heaven,that's like slapping God in the face because He sent His son so you didn't have to do anything,except to ask Jesus into your heart.

vindictive isn't he

This is making my head hurt. Hey guess what? I have absolutely NO money. I'm dirt poor broke, except for the $10 million I have in my bank account.

SANITY SURRENDERS!

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Originally posted by occrider This is making my head hurt. Hey guess what? I have absolutely NO money. I'm dirt poor broke, except for the $10 million I have in my bank account. SANITY SURRENDERS!

I had a buck today. I spent it on a Cosmic Brownie and a Coke.

God could just as easily be evil or hate people who succumb to his false promises for all we know. We have only what is claimed to be his words to indicate otherwise, and he could have simply lied or they could in fact not be his words at all.

We do not know.

Why is one's own ignorance so difficult for people to accept?

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Originally posted by Arbiter God could just as easily be evil or hate people who succumb to his false promises for all we know. We have only what is claimed to be his words to indicate otherwise, and he could have simply lied or they could in fact not be his words at all. We do not know. Why is one's own ignorance so difficult for people to accept?

But he's not evil. He's all that is good. It's a fact. See look:

insert random bible quote

Therefore the ignorance is obviously on your part. Can't you see? Look I'll prove it once again:

insert random bible quote

There, NOW do you understand???

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Originally posted by occrider Thine words carry much wisdom good friend. But alas! From my superaureal senses, I have detected that thou has contracted a terrible malaise of Sanguine that has been transmuting through the aether all around us. If untreated, thine affliction shall surely render you lifeless. Fortune doth smile upon you though. For whilst in my primary profession, I am one of the most skilled alchemists on middle Earth, I am a practiced physician on the side as well and I shall treat thee! I have expertly concluded that thine malaise is due to a preponderance of blood and yellow bile. Therefore we must void the body of the imbalanced humor! As we proceed we shall follow the teachings of the great Hippocrates, �What drugs will not cure, the knife will; what the knife will not cure, the cautery will; what the cautery will not cure must be considered incurable.� Only through careful use of drug induced vomiting, diarrhea, blood letting, and cauterization can we consume the excess humor! Prithee, I am humbly a budding wizard of some prowess as well. If thou hast a mermaid scale or a dragon�s tongue I could construct a talisman that will increase thy sexual virility thricefold. No payment is necessary! For as one of the most esteemed alchemists in these lands I have grown quite wealthy from my practice.

I've always hated Shakespearian mumbo jumbo

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Originally posted by Heinz i give u evidence. from the bible. and thats the only evidence i need. ask me any question and i bet u, i will have a response directly from the bible. so dont get mad, because i have ONE SOURCE thats the most crediable source living man has in its precious possession.

So your only evidence that the bible is the word of god is that it is written in the bible that it is the word of god? Riight!

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and there is such thing as infinite, it is proven in the science of black holes.

So the existance of the mathematical concept of infinity is proof enough that infinite life exists?

Now to you, Nellie. You say that the only and sufficient prerequisite to going to heaven is to accept Jesus in your hearts? Well, first of all, that belief is greatly different from the general belief held by most Christians, which is proven by the bible quote posted by occrider.

I will ask you one more question. What about people who have never been introduced to god's teachings? What about parts of the world where missionaries haven't went? What about people who lived before christianity? Are they doomed to rot in hell for eternity simply because they haven't even got a chance to be introduced to god's teachings? Some fair bloke that christian god is. If that's the way god treats his people, I'm joining occrider in hell.

So a Jewish Priest that leads a good life, helping the community, accepts God, which makes him good, but doesn't accept Jesus as the savior, which makes him evil? Therefore he won't get into heaven but the pedophile priest that killed 3 people because, "God told him to." will??? God, christian logic kills me.

And what about Mortal sins. I believe you said lying is the same as murder and murder is a mortal sin. Wait teacher, can I use the bible too?

(Ps. 6:7): "Thou wilt destroy all that speak a lie,"
(Wis. 1:11): "The mouth that belieth killeth the soul."

And lord forbid that God come down here and sit next to me, because that would take away faith, (enter Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy).


hy�poc�ri�sy ( P ) Pronunciation Key (h-pkr-s)
n. pl. hy�poc�ri�sies
The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.

Now nessa, I know we are beginning to use big words, but try to keep up.

God = Perfect and Good
Murderer = Evil and Bad

Murderer says: I love Jesus
God says: Well come on in, we'll have a hootin time here in heaven.

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Originally posted by priveye03 So a Jewish Priest that leads a good life, helping the community, accepts God, which makes him good, but doesn't accept Jesus as the savior, which makes him evil? Therefore he won't get into heaven but the pedophile priest that killed 3 people because, "God told him to." will??? God, christian logic kills me.

A very good example. So, Nellie, what do you think of people who do horrible acts, but suffer from schizophrenia and genuinely do believe they are doing it for Jesus? They have accepted Jesus in their hearts, they only misinterpreted the meaning. Should they go to heaven?

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Originally posted by Arbiter Why is one's own ignorance so difficult for people to accept?

As Renegade so elegantly put it (unfortunately I walked in too late to give him props), their ignorance is their blind hope - their security blanket wrapped around their fear of the unknown.



Gen 22:2 - And the Lord said to Abraham, "you shall sacrifice your son Isaac." And Abraham said, "I can't hear you, you'll have to speak into the microphone." And God said, "Oh I'm sorry, is this better? Check check, check, Jerry, pull the high end out, I'm still getting some hiss back here..."

That should explain it for the rest of you skeptics!

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Originally posted by Heinz nessie, i find your logic a little off the path.

I just captured my quote for the day!

Hello Pot, this is Kettle calling........

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