Suddenly I realized the stupidity of long buildups

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Posted by tiestoisgod on Oct-18-2005 08:00:

So are you going to anwser my Hendrix question Ishkur, or is it a bit too much of a head twister because it doesnt fit your model? Or do you just like throwing shit at System J and are too important to entertain q's from lower-ranked TA's like me?

Posted by SYSTEM-J on Oct-18-2005 15:42:

quote:
Originally posted by Ishkur
Yeah, I only "brought commercial music" into this thread 4 fucking pages ago.

PAY. FUCKING. ATTENTION.

god, it's like trying to teach physics to a dog.

6 pages, actually. And again, I'm not sure why you did it, because an assertion that trance had steadily remodelled itself into commercial music is incorrect.

Posted by GuyintheTV on Oct-18-2005 23:51:

I have been into trance/techno/EDM for 6 years now and I still like hair raising breakdowns, they just have to have a payoff. So I guess I'm a 'newb,' who is 'keeping this cheese around,' but guess what? At the end of the day, people are going to like music based on how it makes them feel. Good breakdowns, however formulaic and predictable they have become, give me goosebumps. This thread was a stupid fucking 'let's piss off some people' type thread but Ishkur or whatever his/her name is struck a chord with me. No, it's not cheese, it's not a lame overused tactic that doesn't work on anybody but newbs. It's fucking art, and all art is subjective and means different things to different people. You want to know why breakdowns are still around? PEOPLE LIKE THEM. It's trances' equivalent of a 'hook.' Something that makes you go 'god I want to hear that again.' If YOU are sick of it, fine. Move on to whatever the fuck you like and shut the fuck up. Pissing on other peoples' taste is not going to make them change their minds, or make you look any more intelligent. It makes you sound like a whiny, intolerant prick who is clinging to the one thing that makes you feel superior to other people less 'educated' and 'schooled' on the delineation of trance.

guy

ps-dont bother trying to bash me cuz I dont give a fuck

Posted by GuyintheTV on Oct-18-2005 23:52:

Posted by mr.anderson on Oct-18-2005 23:58:

quote:
Originally posted by GuyintheTV
I have been into trance/techno/EDM for 6 years now and I still like hair raising breakdowns, they just have to have a payoff. So I guess I'm a 'newb,' who is 'keeping this cheese around,' but guess what? At the end of the day, people are going to like music based on how it makes them feel. Good breakdowns, however formulaic and predictable they have become, give me goosebumps. This thread was a stupid fucking 'let's piss off some people' type thread but Ishkur or whatever his/her name is struck a chord with me. No, it's not cheese, it's not a lame overused tactic that doesn't work on anybody but newbs. It's fucking art, and all art is subjective and means different things to different people. You want to know why breakdowns are still around? PEOPLE LIKE THEM. It's trances' equivalent of a 'hook.' Something that makes you go 'god I want to hear that again.' If YOU are sick of it, fine. Move on to whatever the fuck you like and shut the fuck up. Pissing on other peoples' taste is not going to make them change their minds, or make you look any more intelligent. It makes you sound like a whiny, intolerant prick who is clinging to the one thing that makes you feel superior to other people less 'educated' and 'schooled' on the delineation of trance.

guy

ps-dont bother trying to bash me cuz I dont give a fuck

Nice, agree!

l've been into Trance for 8 years,& also listen to other types of EDM,and only TRANCE with its "predictable" break-downs gives me this feeling of Euphoria,goosebumps,musical orgasm whatever, that other music genres cannot do!And if it sounds nice, what not like it???

lm not bothered whatever people say about Trance, as long as lm into trance,it is alive and will always be!

Posted by mr.anderson on Oct-19-2005 00:02:

I guess the best way would be for us to Agree on Disagreement

Posted by isoterra on Oct-19-2005 00:26:

quote:
Originally posted by GuyintheTV
I have been into trance/techno/EDM for 6 years now and I still like hair raising breakdowns, they just have to have a payoff. So I guess I'm a 'newb,' who is 'keeping this cheese around,' but guess what? At the end of the day, people are going to like music based on how it makes them feel. Good breakdowns, however formulaic and predictable they have become, give me goosebumps. This thread was a stupid fucking 'let's piss off some people' type thread but Ishkur or whatever his/her name is struck a chord with me. No, it's not cheese, it's not a lame overused tactic that doesn't work on anybody but newbs. It's fucking art, and all art is subjective and means different things to different people. You want to know why breakdowns are still around? PEOPLE LIKE THEM. It's trances' equivalent of a 'hook.' Something that makes you go 'god I want to hear that again.' If YOU are sick of it, fine. Move on to whatever the fuck you like and shut the fuck up. Pissing on other peoples' taste is not going to make them change their minds, or make you look any more intelligent. It makes you sound like a whiny, intolerant prick who is clinging to the one thing that makes you feel superior to other people less 'educated' and 'schooled' on the delineation of trance.

guy

ps-dont bother trying to bash me cuz I dont give a fuck

you were going so well up until the last line

tbh i generally agree. the fact i can appreicate & enjoy other forms of edm for what they are hasn't in the slightest bit taken away the effect a damn good breakdown can have on me. same goes for the other way round.

Posted by Ishkur on Oct-19-2005 06:45:

quote:
Originally posted by GuyintheTV
It's fucking art, and all art is subjective and means different things to different people. You want to know why breakdowns are still around? PEOPLE LIKE THEM.

McDonalds is the most famous restaurant in the world. Everyone visits it all the time. People like cheeseburgers. Yet no one calls it gourmet food--the pinnacle of haute couture.

Don't get confused between what is art (that which provokes) and what is commercial (that which sells).

Posted by Ishkur on Oct-19-2005 06:55:

quote:
Originally posted by tiestoisgod
So are you going to anwser my Hendrix question Ishkur

Sorry. I didn't see it. Hendrix? What about him?

quote:
Originally posted by tiestoisgod
Does that make his music innovative as he introduced new elements, or does it make it tepid and watered down becuase his main sound was blues that had by then (late 1960's) become popular due to the influx of white British artistes?

Oh. This.

It's really not important what his music was or represented, but rather what happened to it in the wake of his greatest creative output. For a brief period in the 60s, popular music was indeed controlled from the ground-up. By people, expressing raw emotion and real talent. This happens from time to time, while the suits back off, re-assess the situation in popular music, and then seize control of it again, watering it down for mass digestion in the next pop wave. Motown's "assembly line" factory of R&B, Soul, Blues and Funk...putting a pop sheen, a catchy faceplate on what was once very gritty and emotional music. Making it emotionally tepid stuff. I explore this phenomenon in this article here, in the wake of the Ashley Simpson debacle. Yeah. Don't think I'm pulling this out of my ass today. I've been charting musical movements and demographics for years.

Back to Jimi: You got to hand it to the pop industry: It loves nothing more than icons. Images. Styles. Gods to worship. And there's no sure-fire way to turn a better-than-average musician into a god than to make him a martyr. Morrison, Joplin, Vaughn, and Cobain can all testify.

Posted by Sykonee on Oct-19-2005 07:11:

quote:
Originally posted by Ishkur
Back to Jimi: You got to hand it to the pop industry: It loves nothing more than icons. Images. Styles. Gods to worship. And there's no sure-fire way to turn a better-than-average musician into a god than to make him a martyr. Morrison, Joplin, Vaughn, and Cobain can all testify.

You forgot Tupac. Werd to tha' West.

And, yes, the 60's was a very unique era for pop music. You would never, ever, ever see a song like Good Vibrations hit the charts today the way it did back then, with the way it literally changes pace and throws all sorts of odd-ball sounds into the mix throughout.

Posted by SYSTEM-J on Oct-19-2005 13:22:

quote:
Originally posted by Ishkur
McDonalds is the most famous restaurant in the world. Everyone visits it all the time. People like cheeseburgers. Yet no one calls it gourmet food--the pinnacle of haute couture.

To be perfectly fair, that doesn't mean that cheeseburgers don't taste nice.

Posted by mr.anderson on Oct-19-2005 13:25:

quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
To be perfectly fair, that doesn't mean that cheeseburgers don't taste nice.

haha exactly!
As long as it sounds good & we like it we are entitled to appreciate it and listen to it & no-one can tell us not to!

Posted by tiestoisgod on Oct-19-2005 15:06:

quote:
Originally posted by Ishkur
Back to Jimi: You got to hand it to the pop industry: It loves nothing more than icons. Images. Styles. Gods to worship. And there's no sure-fire way to turn a better-than-average musician into a god than to make him a martyr. Morrison, Joplin, Vaughn, and Cobain can all testify.

Interesting points about the industry during that period, doing an ethics study of music for a degree so some of what you say around this IS correct according to what I have read.

You love the Cobain/Nirvana suicide situation because it fits your model, but look at the Eric Clapton thing. Most f*ckwits will say "Clapton, yeah, he was God man" yet the guy is a bog standard musician and god knows how his records became hits (although Cream were ok I guess) and he hasnt had the deceny to OD yet.

Hendrix would have left the same imprint on music, prematurely dead or not.

Posted by SYSTEM-J on Oct-19-2005 15:23:

quote:
Originally posted by tiestoisgod
but look at the Eric Clapton thing. Most f*ckwits will say "Clapton, yeah, he was God man" yet the guy is a bog standard musician and god knows how his records became hits (although Cream were ok I guess) and he hasnt had the deceny to OD yet.

Are you mad? They played Layla on the radio this morning and people were phoning in saying that it had just put another 3 points on their driving license.

Posted by tiestoisgod on Oct-20-2005 08:25:

quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Are you mad? They played Layla on the radio this morning and people were phoning in saying that it had just put another 3 points on their driving license.

Thats pretty funny, but do you really see Clapton as a significant player (as in movement leader, not technique) in rock, really? To use that example of a song would be re-itterating Ishkurs point of the band/artist not being popular, but rather a particular track.

Clapton did nothing that the Buddy Guys and BB Kings hadnt already done 10 times better, I would account a lot of it to him being a white artist in a predominantly black genre i.e. novelty value.

I was only really using that as an example because Ish was trying to account Hendrix's success to suicide, the whole Nirvana/Kurt C model of his (which is true of Nirvana to an extent, as they had their better days behind them at that point).

Posted by SYSTEM-J on Oct-20-2005 13:35:

Most artists have a biggest hit though, which recieves more play than any of their other tracks. The artist in question usually sells millions anyway, so I don't see the relevance.

Example: Led Zeppelin will forever be remembered for Stairway to Heaven, but they'd sold many millions before writing it, and altogether have 100 million albums in the US alone to their names. Are they unpopular but the song is? Rubbish.

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