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-- Breaking News: Isreal and Lebanon at War?
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| Originally posted by skot_e Has anyone else noticed the lack of coverage about Palestine? has it been forgotten - what's going on there? |
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| Originally posted by Fir3start3r My question is, why were they still there???  I realize they may have been trapped recently but it's not like they weren't cognisant of the situation before they arrived... |
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| Originally posted by digitul punk Guys.. what are we even doing? It's god's chosen people wiping out the "dirty arabs".. let them bomb those bastards and claim the whole mid-east region as theirs. After all it's their god given right to bomb the whole fucking world and call everyone a terrorist.  |
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| Originally posted by hardcore trancer you are pathatic.Do you not see whats happening there?THEY HAVE NO WAY OF GETTING OUT.No airport no roads no nothing.where the fuck are they suppose to go? It is sad to see how careless and ignorant some people could be. |
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| Originally posted by hardcore trancer It is all about shifting attentions so that they can do their dirty works.God knows what type of massacre is happening in Gaza right now. |
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| Originally posted by Goashem Epicurus, maybe you can shed light on this for me as a lebanese. israel has been targeting alot of civilian infrustructure, there was alot of civilian causulties. wouldnt that skew the lebanese opinion against israel? and see the hezbollah as heroes that stand up to the bully? |
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| Originally posted by hardcore trancer WOW I guess you really havent been watching what a disaster Lebenon has become in past few days. |
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This is bullshit.How are you expecting Lebenon to solve anything when thay are getting their asses bombed by the filthy zionists? |
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| Originally posted by Epicurus You make a good point, and I'll try to explain my position with regards to this as best as I can. As I mentioned previously, Israel is hoping that a firm retaliation to the kidnapping is going to "send the message" to the Lebanese government and to the populace that an armed Hizballah patrolling the Southern Lebanese border with Israel is unacceptable, and that a very heavy price will be payed for any transgressions. The Israeli operation is a delicate one, in that they must use only the necessary amount of force to make their point and avoid civilian casualties at all costs. As much as I despise the IDF, I doubt they're targeting civilians purposefully (although some may disagree with me and probably be able to put up a robust argument) as there is no strategic benefit to that whatsoever -- quite the contrary of course. In other words, the killing of civilians isn't part of their strategy. Bluntly, they're fucking up, and big time. And if they keep on fucking up, the reverse effect that you mentioned may indeed occur. The longer this operation drags on, the more this benefits Hizballah, and they know it. This is why I prefaced my earlier post with "If the situation does not escalate any further, and normalcy returns to Lebanon in the near future (i.e. one-two weeks)", because if this conflict spirals out of control and keeps on dragging, even the anti-Hizballah factions will have no choice but to grudgingly support them, at least temporarily. As for the destruction of civilian infrastructure, that is part of the collective punishment policy that Israel adheres to, and is their way of "sending the message". I don't believe in the slightest the official "reason" given by the Israeli government, that of ensuring that the soldiers are not transported out of Lebanon. It makes no difference whether the soldiers are inside of Lebanon or not, because either way, they won't recover them. They won't find them inside of Lebanon or outside of Lebanon. If they couldn't retrieve the kidnapped soldier from Gaza, which is a fraction of land compared to Lebanon, do they seriously envision retrieving the kidnapped soldiers from Lebanon, assuming they're still there? Of course not. And to think that Hizballah will cower under pressure and simply hand the soldiers over because of the shelling is a pipe dream, and they know it. This is clearly a pretext by Israel to once again, "send the message" loud and clear, although if they keep this up, their strategy will surely backfire. Finally, to everyone claiming that the Lebanese government should have rained Hizballah in a long time ago, please understand that such a proposition is simply impossible. First of all, Hizballah is more powerful than the Lebanese military. Lebanon barely has any military to speak of, while Hizballah is being helped militarily by Syria and Iran. Second of all, if you don't appreciate the fragility of the Lebanese societal fabric, you simply won't understand how delicate such a proposal is. Hizballah is supported by a large minority in Lebanon (over 40% of Lebanese in Lebanon are Shia, and wholeheartedly support Hizballah), and any faulty maneuvering by the majority anti-Hizballah government risks plunging Lebanon into a civil war. It's not as easy as simply claiming that the Lebanese government needs to disarm Hizballah. They would love to, but they simply can't, because of their military weakness, and because of the societal ramifications of such a move. Senora has been pleading on national television for a cease fire for the past few days, and attempting to establish his jurisdiction over Lebanon as acting prime minister, but to no avail. He's simply powerless to do anything. Think of him as Kofi Annan, and his government as the UN. Here's a good article that lends credence to what I'm trying to say. |
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| Originally posted by Fir3start3r WOW I guess it never occured to you that Israel is targeting what they need to? |
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| Originally posted by Fir3start3r Maybe you should look before you type; I acknowledged that a couple posts up and THEN put the question out as to why they were in such a hotspot to begin with. At least try and catch up with the rest of us in conversation before spewing your blind hatred... |
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| Originally posted by Epicurus You make a good point, and I'll try to explain my position with regards to this as best as I can. As I mentioned previously, Israel is hoping that a firm retaliation to the kidnapping is going to "send the message" to the Lebanese government and to the populace that an armed Hizballah patrolling the Southern Lebanese border with Israel is unacceptable, and that a very heavy price will be payed for any transgressions. The Israeli operation is a delicate one, in that they must use only the necessary amount of force to make their point and avoid civilian casualties at all costs. As much as I despise the IDF, I doubt they're targeting civilians purposefully (although some may disagree with me and probably be able to put up a robust argument) as there is no strategic benefit to that whatsoever -- quite the contrary of course. In other words, the killing of civilians isn't part of their strategy. Bluntly, they're fucking up, and big time. And if they keep on fucking up, the reverse effect that you mentioned may indeed occur. The longer this operation drags on, the more this benefits Hizballah, and they know it. This is why I prefaced my earlier post with "If the situation does not escalate any further, and normalcy returns to Lebanon in the near future (i.e. one-two weeks)", because if this conflict spirals out of control and keeps on dragging, even the anti-Hizballah factions will have no choice but to grudgingly support them, at least temporarily. As for the destruction of civilian infrastructure, that is part of the collective punishment policy that Israel adheres to, and is their way of "sending the message". I don't believe in the slightest the official "reason" given by the Israeli government, that of ensuring that the soldiers are not transported out of Lebanon. It makes no difference whether the soldiers are inside of Lebanon or not, because either way, they won't recover them. They won't find them inside of Lebanon or outside of Lebanon. If they couldn't retrieve the kidnapped soldier from Gaza, which is a fraction of land compared to Lebanon, do they seriously envision retrieving the kidnapped soldiers from Lebanon, assuming they're still there? Of course not. And to think that Hizballah will cower under pressure and simply hand the soldiers over because of the shelling is a pipe dream, and they know it. This is clearly a pretext by Israel to once again, "send the message" loud and clear, although if they keep this up, their strategy will surely backfire. Finally, to everyone claiming that the Lebanese government should have rained Hizballah in a long time ago, please understand that such a proposition is simply impossible. First of all, Hizballah is more powerful than the Lebanese military. Lebanon barely has any military to speak of, while Hizballah is being helped militarily by Syria and Iran. Second of all, if you don't appreciate the fragility of the Lebanese societal fabric, you simply won't understand how delicate such a proposal is. Hizballah is supported by a large minority in Lebanon (over 40% of Lebanese in Lebanon are Shia, and wholeheartedly support Hizballah), and any faulty maneuvering by the majority anti-Hizballah government risks plunging Lebanon into a civil war. It's not as easy as simply claiming that the Lebanese government needs to disarm Hizballah. They would love to, but they simply can't, because of their military weakness, and because of the societal ramifications of such a move. Senora has been pleading on national television for a cease fire for the past few days, and attempting to establish his jurisdiction over Lebanon as acting prime minister, but to no avail. He's simply powerless to do anything. Think of him as Kofi Annan, and his government as the UN. Here's a good article that lends credence to what I'm trying to say. |
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| Originally posted by jonSun Civilians.? |
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| Originally posted by hardcore trancer I hope they burn in hell with their god. |
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| Originally posted by Fir3start3r Did we forget the part where the Hizballah use's civilians as shields? Yes there's going to be f@ck ups in any military campaign, that's just a fact. Name me one large campaign that didn't include civilian casualties; that's just a hard fact. It sucks yes but it's going to happen. Lets just hope it remains to a minimum for everyone's sakes... |
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| Originally posted by hardcore trancer blind hatred? unlike you I a care about the people that are dying becuse of Israels actions. |
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| Originally posted by tathi That is pathetic, does the Israeli army truly believe that they are above any blame for the deaths of these Canadians? They may aswell say: "the responsibility for the deaths of the 7 Canadians rests on the USA for funding our trigger-happy military" |
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| Originally posted by Fir3start3r WOW I guess it never occured to you that Israel is targeting what they need to? |
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| You seem to think (at least it's pretty evident from your chicken little attitude) that Israel is out there creating gas chambers and lining all the arabs up for extintion. Please wake up and join reality. |
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| Originally posted by LazFX pssst....before someone tells you.. they muslim and jew, worship the same god, they are both decendents of Abraham..... just wanting you to know and would not want anyone here to say you are ignorant...... |
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| Originally posted by hardcore trancer so tell me which targets is Israel going to bomb next?hospitals?schools? |
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| Originally posted by Fir3start3r So where's the outrage for the innocent people of Isreal that are killed by cheap Hizballah rockets? Hypocrite. |
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| Originally posted by dennis How about you tell me, is Hezbollah going to hide in hospitals? Schools? |
Speaking of palestine in this whole mess...
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| By IBRAHIM BARZAK, Associated Press Writer 2 hours, 42 minutes ago GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - Israel bombed the Palestinian Foreign Ministry building in Gaza City early Monday, pushing ahead with its three-week offensive in Gaza as troops clashed with militants in the northern part of the territory. ADVERTISEMENT The huge blast from the second Israeli airstrike on the ministry in less than a week collapsed a wing of the building and damaged dozens of houses. Black smoke covered the area as police vehicles and ambulances raced in, sirens blaring. An Associated Press reporter on the scene saw clouds of smoke rising from the already damaged building after the Israeli plane dropped the bomb, which exploded with a deafening blast, shaking the whole area. At least nine people in nearby houses were injured, rescue workers said. At least 50 apartments were severely damaged. Windows were shattered, furniture wrecked and several walls blown down. Stores on ground floor levels had their doors blown off. Shacks in a nearby shantytown collapsed on their occupants, residents said. The other four ministries in the same compound as the foreign ministry were also damaged in the explosion. The ministry was empty at the time of the strike, 1:20 a.m. local time. The Israeli military confirmed it struck the Palestinian Foreign Ministry as part if its campaign against the militant Islamic Hamas, which is running the Palestinian government. The military said the Palestinian foreign minister, Mahmoud Zahar, used the office "to plan anti-Israel operations." Zahar is a top Hamas leader. Israel bombed the same building on Thursday. Israel has been attacking Gaza since June 28, three days after Hamas-linked militants tunneled under the border and attacked an Israeli army post at a Gaza crossing, killing two soldiers and capturing a third. An hour earlier, Israeli aircraft fired at least five missiles at Palestinian militants during battles in northern Gaza early Monday, Palestinian security officials said. At least two militants were wounded, hospital officials said. Palestinian security officials said three of the missiles were aimed at militants firing rocket-propelled grenades near the northern Gaza town of Beit Hanoun, across from the Israeli town of Sderot, a frequent target of Palestinian rockets. Another missile was aimed at a Hamas office in the Jebaliya refugee camp, setting it on fire, residents said. No one was hurt. Also, an aircraft fired a missile at a farm building where militants were thought to be hiding. The military confirmed that its forces have been firing missiles in northern Gaza but had no further details. Israeli forces moved back into northern Gaza early Sunday, 10 days after completing a two-day sweep aimed at confronting militants who have been firing rockets at Israel. Despite the new incursion, militants hit Sderot with two rockets early Monday, wounding a resident, the military said. Israel said its Gaza offensive was meant to win the soldier's release and to end Palestinian rocket fire at Israeli communities around Gaza. Two rockets fired during the offensive reached as far as the city of Ashkelon, seven miles northeast of Gaza. Yuval Diskin, the head of Israel's Shin Bet security service, told Israel's Cabinet on Sunday that he believed Shalit was still alive, according to a participant in the meeting. |
Oh and this...
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By HAMZA HENDAWI and LEE KEATH, Associated Press Writers 7 minutes ago BEIRUT, Lebanon - Hezbollah and Israel traded fierce barrages for a sixth day Monday, as the latest eruption of warfare in the Middle East showed no sign of easing. Rockets struck deep inside Israel, killing eight people in Haifa, and Israeli planes bombed Lebanon from north to south. ADVERTISEMENT The toll on both sides rose to more than 200. In addition to the Israeli victims at a rail repair facility in the Haifa attack on Sunday, an Israeli rocket blew up a Lebanese army position, killing eight soldiers, and a sea-launched missile killed at least nine people in the southern Lebanese port of Tyre. Israel warned of massive retaliation after the Haifa attack, and accused Iran and Syria of providing the weaponry used in it. Israeli military officials said four of the missiles were the Iranian-made Fajr-3, with a 22-mile range and 200-pound payload, and far more advanced than the Katyusha rockets the guerrillas rained on northern Israel in previous attacks. Foreigners began to flee by the hundreds and several nations drew up plans to get their citizens out. U.S. planners arrived to organize evacuation for any of the 25,000 Americans seeking to leave. Two Marine Corps helicopters evacuated 21 Americans to Cyprus on Sunday. Italian military flights rushed out some 350 people, mostly Europeans. France, which has more than 20,000 citizens in Lebanon, chartered a Greek ferry expected to pick up some 1,200 people on Monday. Early Monday, witnesses reported that waves of Israeli airstrikes hit the Lebanese city of Tripoli and Hezbollah strongholds in eastern town of Baalbek. Missiles apparently aiming at a relay station for Hezbollah's al-Manar television missed their target and hit a house south of Beirut. Police said four villagers were killed and 10 wounded. Lebanese police said the village had been hit by missiles fired from Israeli warships, but the Israeli military denied gunboats had participated in the bombings. Israeli missiles hit the Lebanese capital shortly after sunrise Monday, as three loud explosions rocked the southern suburbs while another strike sparked a large fire in Beirut's port, witnesses said. Eight Lebanese army soldiers were killed Sunday and 12 wounded in an Israeli airstrike in the fishing village of Abdeh in northern Lebanon. Israel, technically at war with Lebanon since 1948, said it had targeted radar stations in the north because Hezbollah had used them to hit an Israeli ship on Friday. It all but accused the Lebanese military of lending its support to Hezbollah. "The attacks ... are against radar stations used, among other things, in the attack on the Israeli missile boat, by Hezbollah in cooperation with the Lebanese military," an Israeli army spokesman told The Associated Press. World leaders meeting in St. Petersburg produced a draft framework to end the crisis and a U.N. envoy landed in Beirut. The Group of Eight most industrialized nations expressed concern over "rising civilian casualties on all sides" and urged both sides to stop their attacks. "These extremist elements and those that support them cannot be allowed to plunge the Middle East into chaos and provoke a wider conflict," the G-8 leaders said in a statement. "The extremists must immediately halt their attacks." The United Nations, the European Union and Italy also pushed ahead with separate efforts Sunday to try to end the fighting. But both Israel and Hezbollah signaled that their attacks would only intensify. Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert vowed "far-reaching consequences" for the Haifa attack, Hezbollah's deadliest strike ever on Israel. The morning barrage of 20 rockets came after Israeli warplanes unleashed their heaviest strikes yet on Beirut, flattening apartment buildings and blowing up a power station to cut electricity to swaths of the capital. Even before the latest Israeli retaliation, Israeli airstrikes had devastated southern Beirut, a teeming Shiite district that is home to Hezbollah's main headquarters. The Jiyeh power plant, on Beirut's southern outskirts, was in flames after it was hit, cutting electricity to many areas in the capital and south Lebanon. Firefighters pleaded for help from residents after saying they didn't have enough water to put out the blaze. Some residents of Beirut's southern Shiite neighborhood, Dahiyah, ventured out of shelters to collect belongings from their shattered city blocks, where buildings were collapsed on their sides, missing top floors or reduced to pancaked concrete. Many emerged from their destroyed apartments with bulging shopping bags or suitcases as young Hezbollah gunmen urged them to leave quickly. Large swaths of Beirut were covered with dust, and the city of 1.5 million people was emptying as residents fled. Furniture pieces, blankets, mattresses, clothes and soft toys were scattered on the streets. A copy of the Quran, Islam's holy book, lay in the street with its dusty pages fluttering until a Hezbollah gunman reverently lifted it and kissed it. "We want to sleep on our own pillows in the shelter," Mariam Shihabiyah, a 39-year-old mother of five said as she emerged from her home with an armful of pillows and clothes. "Can you believe what happened to Dahiyah?" The Israeli military warned residents of south Lebanon to flee, promising heavy retaliation after the Haifa assault. "Nothing will deter us," Olmert said. Along with the Lebanon attacks, Israel attacked along the second front where Israel is fighting, in Gaza. Fighter jets bombed the Palestinian Foreign Ministry in Gaza City, and clouds of smoke rose from the building, which has been hit before. At least nine people in nearby houses were injured, rescue workers said. Hezbollah's leader, Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, said that despite the barrage, the guerrillas were "in their full strength and power" and that their "missile stockpiles are still full." "When the Zionists behave like there are no rules and no red lines and no limits to the confrontation, it is our right to behave in the same way," a tired-looking but defiant Nasrallah said in a televised address. He said Hezbollah hit Haifa because of Israel's strikes on Lebanese civilians. Nasrallah tried to rally the Arab world around Hezbollah, saying the battle was an opportunity to deal Israel a "historic defeat." Iran and Syria are prime supporters of Hezbollah and Hamas, raising fears the sides could be drawn into a regional war. Still, they denied Israel's claim that they had provided advanced missile technology to Hezbollah. Smoke rose over Haifa and air raid sirens wailed as the dead and wounded were evacuated from a train station warehouse full of workers that took a direct hit in the strike, just one hour into the new work week. Orthodox rescue crews worked their way through the debris gathering pieces of flesh amid pools of blood. Elsewhere in the port city of 270,000, residents huddled in bomb shelters or stocked up on milk, bread and other staples. "It's a war, it's an emergency situation and it will get worse," said Sharon Goldstein, a 34-year-old security guard. In an initial response soon after, Israeli warplanes hit south Beirut around Hezbollah's headquarters, already reduced to rubble. In the southern port of Tyre, an Israeli missile tore off the top of a 12-story building, killing at least nine. Rescue workers pulled bodies from the crushed concrete. Seven Canadians of Lebanese origin, including several members of the same Montreal family, were killed by an Israeli strike on their village in the south where they'd come for a summer visit, Canada's Foreign Affairs spokeswoman Ambra Dickie said. Earlier reports had said eight were killed. After nightfall, Israeli missiles destroyed fuel depots at Beirut's airport. Hezbollah retaliated with rockets that exploded in the Israeli towns of Afula and Upper Nazareth, showing a longer range than previous barrages. A rocket exploded near an air force base in northern Israel overnight. There were no immediate reports of casualties in those attacks. Waves of missiles wounded eight soldiers in Tripoli, Lebanon's second largest city and a major northern port. Tyre and another southern port city, Sidon, also came under renewed attack. Some 40 people had been wounded in the raids early Monday. Western nations clearly expected a drawn-out fight even as diplomatic efforts began in earnest. In Beirut, Vijay Nambiar, U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan's special political adviser, met Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad Saniora. "Enough innocent lives have been lost and property infrastructure has been damaged," Nambiar said. European Union foreign policy chief Javier Solana also met with Saniora on Sunday. Syria warned on Sunday that any aggression against it "will be met with a firm and direct response whose timing and methods are unlimited." Hundreds of cars drove through Damascus on Sunday night with drivers and passengers waving Syrian and Hezbollah flags and honking horns. Iran threatened "unimaginable damage" to Israel if Syria were attacked, and its supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said Hezbollah was winning its fight against Israel and would not disarm. Iran's foreign minister headed to Damascus late Sunday for talks. _____ Hendawi reported from Beirut and Keath from Damascus, Syria. |
I dont understand why Israel is crying that Iran & Syria provided the weapons used against them. The weapons are not very high tech since the Lebanese resorted to sending an un-manned aircraft filled with explosives to attack ships. Also the IDF is crying, but they have the best weapons in the world provided to them by the USA while the USA is visiting Syria.
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| Originally posted by digitul punk We only need Syria to be attacked for a WW-III to happen. |
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