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-- Male freedom of choice?
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quote:

Originally posted by Theresa Yes you can. You are responsible for leaving the acorn somewhere where it could be fertilized. Just like it would be my fault for leaving my purse alone in the bus station, and having the money taken from it. Being robbed was just as much my fault as it was the person who took the money.

You may feel "morally responsible" for these things, but the law does not work that way, fortunately.

quote:

Originally posted by distant And why is the man not involved in this choice?

He already made his choice.

He used his body to make his choice, KNOWING that there may be a choice later made by the woman with what she wants to do with her body in result to the choice he made with his body. Choice made and done.

It is HER body, and therefore has the sole right to make the choice of what she wants to do with it.

quote:

Originally posted by Theresa You are responsible for leaving the acorn somewhere where it could be fertilized.

So if I jizz on a public toilet seat, and a girl comes in right after me and sits on it, I'll be responsible for the kid?

quote:

Originally posted by Theresa He already made his choice. He used his body to make his choice, KNOWING that there may be a choice later made by the woman with what she wants to do with her body in result to the choice he made with his body. Choice made and done. It is HER body, and therefore has the sole right to make the choice of what she wants to do with it.

Exactly. And once a woman gets pregnant, she has all of the choices. And the man has given up his right to bodily autonomy and to his finances by choosing to have sex.

This makes perfect sense and anybody who questions it is an insensitive ogre and probably runs around impregnating woman indiscriminately.

Correct?

LMAO @ acorn

quote:

Originally posted by Theresa He already made his choice. He used his body to make his choice, KNOWING that there may be a choice later made by the woman with what she wants to do with her body in result to the choice he made with his body. Choice made and done.

He made the choice to have an orgasm during the act of sex. Nothing else.

quote:

Originally posted by Theresa It is HER body, and therefore has the sole right to make the choice of what she wants to do with it.

It's still my jizz.

I've noticed that you keep arguing what is, not what should be. You say that the man knows this and that about the consequences. What makes you think that the status quo is optimal? As has been said before, women were treated like shit hundreds of years ago. They knew it was so, but eventually women stood up and chose not to accept it anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Sure, but you are not consenting to a baby, unless we accept your bizarre, lop-sided "logic."

"When you have sex, you are consenting to the possibility that, EVEN THOUGH YOU MAY TRY TO PREVENT IT, the act MIGHT result in your partner becoming pregnant."

You are therefore consenting to the possible chance of there being a baby created.

I do not see how this is "lop-sided logic".

quote:

Originally posted by distant You still haven't explained why, in this day and age, a man should bear that burdon. So, what you're still arguing is: Women love sex, men love sex, but only the woman has a choice as to what comes of it, should the condom break.

Seriously... what you are saying is so beyond common sense in my mind that it blows me away. I hardly know how to respond.

It doesn't matter what day and age it is, it is simple biological occurences that have always been and always will be, (assuming we don't evolve too askew from what we are now).

quote:

Originally posted by distant So if I jizz on a public toilet seat, and a girl comes in right after me and sits on it, I'll be responsible for the kid?

No. It's her fault for sitting on the toilet! Nasstyyy

quote:

Originally posted by Theresa He already made his choice. He used his body to make his choice, KNOWING that there may be a choice later made by the woman with what she wants to do with her body in result to the choice he made with his body. Choice made and done. It is HER body, and therefore has the sole right to make the choice of what she wants to do with it.

and she used her body to make a choice and should therefore take responsibility for any results that may happen from promiscuity. abortion is irresponsible imo.

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Originally posted by Theresa I do not see how this is "lop-sided logic".

It is lop-sided in that once the woman is pregnant, she retains all of her rights while the man loses all of his. Very simple.

And in case I have not made this clear enough, the rights lost are bodily autonomy, since he can be thrown in prison, and discretion with his finances, since they may be taken from him.

theresa what jive is trying to say is it's ok for a woman to say "i don't want the baby" but it's not ok for a man to say so. that's some bullshit.

quote:

Originally posted by Theresa Yes you can. You are responsible for leaving the acorn somewhere where it could be fertilized. Just like it would be my fault for leaving my purse alone in the bus station, and having the money taken from it. Being robbed was just as much my fault as it was the person who took the money.

that analogy only works if you get pleasure out of leaving your purse at bus stations.

quote:

Originally posted by Theresa Seriously... what you are saying is so beyond common sense in my mind that it blows me away. I hardly know how to respond. It doesn't matter what day and age it is, it is simple biological occurences that have always been and always will be, (assuming we don't evolve too askew from what we are now).

Condoms aren't natural/biological occurrences. Nonetheless, they often prevent pregnancies (I'm sure you've used a condom once or twice). Just like a condom, a law for this stuff could prevent the sexism and unnecessary stress associated with it.

That is common sense.

quote:

Originally posted by distant So if I jizz on a public toilet seat, and a girl comes in right after me and sits on it, I'll be responsible for the kid?

The liklihood of that even happening is so minute that the argument is moot, but yes, it would be equally your responsibilty. You shouldn't be so carelessly jizzing wherever the hell you feel like.

P.S. Gross and

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Exactly. And once a woman gets pregnant, she has all of the choices. And the man has given up his right to bodily autonomy and to his finances by choosing to have sex. This makes perfect sense and anybody who questions it is an insensitive ogre and probably runs around impregnating woman indiscriminately. Correct?

Would you mind dropping the condescending, assuming bullshit please. If you want to debate something with me, don't be a dick.

Once a woman gets pregnant, it solely affects her bodily autonomy, so therefore she has full rights to do as she wishes with it. You already made your decision that you are ok with this by having sex. You are actually advocating that women lose their rights to their bodily autonomy.

quote:

Originally posted by distant He made the choice to have an orgasm during the act of sex. Nothing else. It's still my jizz. I've noticed that you keep arguing what is, not what should be. You say that the man knows this and that about the consequences. What makes you think that the status quo is optimal? As has been said before, women were treated like shit hundreds of years ago. They knew it was so, but eventually women stood up and chose not to accept it anymore.

LOL! This argument with you is beyond stupid.

Fact - sex = possibility of pregnancy.
Fact - having sex = accepting these terms.

If you are unable to accept reality, then you should keep your wang in your pants, especially for the sake of all humanity.

BTW, it is still technically "your jizz", but that doesn't mean you have control over what happens to it anymore, and that was your decision.

quote:

Originally posted by Omega_Blue and she used her body to make a choice and should therefore take responsibility for any results that may happen from promiscuity. abortion is irresponsible imo.

Abortion *is* taking responsibility for her actions. However, this will get us into an argument of whether abortion is "moral/right" or not, and that is not the discussion here.

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T that analogy only works if you get pleasure out of leaving your purse at bus stations.

Maybe I do.

quote:

You are actually advocating that women lose their rights to their bodily autonomy.

Nope, she has every right to abort if she wishes. I would not put restrictions on that.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Nope, she has every right to abort if she wishes. I would not put restrictions on that.

But you will put restrictions on her having the baby.

That is removing a womans bodily autonomy.

I don't think it's really possible for either side of the argument to effectively re-state its stance any longer.

Do some people abandon their kids and justify it to themselves because the whole thing was "sexist" or "logical" or just plain "unfair"?

quote:

Originally posted by Theresa But you will put restrictions on her having the baby. That is removing a womans bodily autonomy.

No, of course not. She can have the baby if she wants, too.

Ok first we started this as if the man should pay child support, but that is if the women gets custody. What if the male gets custody because the mother is seen as unfit? Should the mother have to pay child support ?

- the debates that you are having that don't concern the matter at hand, don't have a right or wrong, it's all in your choice and your opinions.

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Originally posted by Frenchie Ok first we started this as if the man should pay child support, but that is if the women gets custody. What if the male gets custody because the mother is seen as unfit? Should the mother have to pay child support ?

Yes.

quote:

Originally posted by Theresa LOL! This argument with you is beyond stupid. Fact - sex = possibility of pregnancy. Fact - having sex = accepting these terms. If you are unable to accept reality, then you should keep your wang in your pants, especially for the sake of all humanity. BTW, it is still technically "your jizz", but that doesn't mean you have control over what happens to it anymore, and that was your decision.

It is indeed a fact that there's a chance my jizz will inpregnate her, no matter what. What we're discussing though, is a way around that through legislation, so as to overall reduce the amount of unwanted pregnancies and improve the average living conditions for a child.

I must re-iterate: just because it is, doesn't mean it must stay that way. Why should so much responsibility be attached to recreational sex?

EDIT: Unless you somehow missed it, I do not accept: "Fact - having sex = accepting these terms."

quote:

Originally posted by Theresa Once a woman gets pregnant, it solely affects her bodily autonomy, so therefore she has full rights to do as she wishes with it. You already made your decision that you are ok with this by having sex. You are actually advocating that women lose their rights to their bodily autonomy. Fact - sex = possibility of pregnancy. Fact - having sex = accepting these terms. If you are unable to accept reality, then you should keep your wang in your pants, especially for the sake of all humanity.

but you can use that same exact argument to disprove your point. a woman "already made her decision" that she is "ok with this by having sex." sex = possibility of pregnancy as you said. if you don't want to get pregnant.. if you are "unable to accept reality", keep your pants on. for the sake of all humanity. same analogy.

it's like you're implying that a guy should be abstinent if he doesn't want to risk unplanned pregnancy, but it's ok for a girl to fuck whenever she wants because she can always get an abortion. that's fucked up.

quote:

Originally posted by distant Unless you somehow missed it, I do not accept: "Fact - having sex = accepting these terms."

Uh-ohhhh, look out, Theresa! He might give your post an F!

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