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-- Federal Election 2008 Thread
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quote:

Originally posted by Yohan the latest poll numbers are kinda scary. possible Lib win w/ coalition with NDP or Green....

aka end of the world.

btw, those libs votes are spread out across the country which will give them less seats than the CPC.

Current Prediction
Pr�vision Courante:
Changed/Les pr�visions ont chang�s: 11:50 AM 10/10/2008

Conservatives
Conservateurs 118

Liberal Party
Party lib�ral 77

N.D.P.
N.P.D. 29

Bloc Qu�b�cois 47

X Other
Autres 2

Too Close 35

Total 308



hahahahahah YESSSSSS

quote:

Originally posted by malek For a french speaker, this question doesn't make sense because it has past and present tences in the same sentence. I'm wondering why no one is making any fuss about M. Baird or most CPC ministers ability to answer in French.

Malek, it makes no sense to an English speaker either. Tenses should not be mixed.

Regarding why no one makes a fuss about CPC ministers (to be truthful, most opposition critics too) not being able to answer in French... because politicians and media are usually civil enough as to not jump all over someone for having minor difficulties with their second language. The difference here is that this is a close, heated, election and the CPC are getting desperate. Harper probably more so then the party... he must know that his time as leader is up if he doesn't form the government; hell, it's probably just about up because he blew the majority.

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard Painful to watch... sure, that's a good criteria upon which to base a vote. Strange that someone who presents herself as highly intelligent (and I don't doubt that you are) would be so influenced by something so superficial. I would never presume to tell someone how to vote; however, I really do hope you have better reasons for your decision.

If you think I base my vote on this interview then I think you are the one who needs to think a little harder.

I don't like Dion's policies, and I like conservative policies (the fiscal ones, primarily). The fact that Dion is such a piss poor communicator is just icing on the cake.

quote:

Originally posted by malek I'm wondering why no one is making any fuss about M. Baird or most CPC ministers ability to answer in French.

because French is not the language of international relations, probably.

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper If you think I base my vote on this interview then I think you are the one who needs to think a little harder. I don't like Dion's policies, and I like conservative policies (the fiscal ones, primarily). The fact that Dion is such a piss poor communicator is just icing on the cake.

Fair enough... I've just seen an inordinate amount of attention being paid by you to Dion's communication skills, which is something I would expect from someone with a lower level of understanding then I've always believed you had... so I was/am surprised. I just figured if you had a more substantial basis for your position you would focus on issues of substance rather then superficial matters.

Malak, I changed my mind... it seems more likely that people don't make a big deal out of ministers bungling French due to a pro-English bias.

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper because French is not the language of international relations, probably.

what does it matter in the canadian parlimant? bi-national, bi-lingual parlimant??

You are mixing things up here.

I wonder how most european countries (and the rest) are doing to manage their international relations

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper It's not the most ideal way to ask the question, but in order to be addressing the financial crisis today, the PM would have had to HAVE DONE various things before the present time. Interviewer was asking what those things were. I understand asking for clarification, but he asks THREE times. And after each time, continues to answer the question despite clearly not understanding what he was being asked. Why not spend a little more time understanding the question before you start providing an answer? The liberal aide understood the question, didn't she? Dion is absolutely painful to watch. Moreso than Palin. If these two get elected I'm throwing myself in front of a train.

I'm kind of stunned that you dislike Dion *so* much because of this...as if a PM ever has to make important decisions "on the fly" without the opportunity for clarity and discussion. Isn't that a bit of a ridiculous standard to hold?

He asked for clarification three times because the impatient idiot of an interviewer *repeatedly* didn't answer Dion's request for a further context.

'If you were PM, what would you do differently, that Mr. Harper has not done'

Do differently if he had been elected today, had been elected in the last election...?

The interviewer needed to qualify his question by providing for WHEN Dion would have become PM.

And DION is being accused of not understanding English?

wow, lol.

If anything, it should reflect poorly on the lack of clarity by the impatient interviewer. Dion was flustered because this jackass couldn't understand Dion's request for context.

quote:

Originally posted by malek what does it matter in the canadian parlimant? bi-national, bi-lingual parlimant?? You are mixing things up here. I wonder how most european countries (and the rest) are doing to manage their international relations

Our PM does not sit in parliament all day. He goes to other countries! *surprise face*

Listen to any of the G8 leaders speak english - first language or not, they're pretty good.

and Hazard, I personally think communication skills is of utmost importance. It's not just that it's irritating, it's that it diminishes his presence as a leader IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by malek what does it matter in the canadian parlimant? bi-national, bi-lingual parlimant?? You are mixing things up here. I wonder how most european countries (and the rest) are doing to manage their international relations

the "language of international relations" argument is just hogwash made up to try and lend legitimacy to a pro-English (or perhaps) anti-French bias.

International groups official languages
UN - English, French, Arabic, Russian, Chinese, and Spanish
IMF - English, French, Spanish, Arabic, German, Russian, and Chinese
International Criminal Court - English and French
International Olympic Committee - English and French
Organization for International Co-operation and development - English and French
World Trade Organization - English and French
NATO - English and French

Really, the only international groups of substance that Canada is involved in that do not use French as an official language are APEC and The Commonwealth. That said, we're also part of La Francophonie... which I'm going to presume does not do business in English.

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper Our PM does not sit in parliament all day. He goes to other countries! *surprise face*

no way!

quote:

Listen to any of the G8 leaders speak english - first language or not, they're pretty good.

Japan at G8 talking in english



Italian PM speaking English



French PM speaking immaculate English


Russian president (at 1:30) speaking english

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT He asked for clarification three times because the impatient idiot of an interviewer *repeatedly* didn't answer Dion's request for a further context.

Then why not ask a few times before you start to answer the question? Why on earth did he begin to answer the question several times without knowing what he was being asked? if the interviewer gave him an insufficient response, then stop and demand proper clarification before you begin responding.

Honestly if you were interviewing for a job, would you start answering a question, then stop and ask for clarficiation, then start answering again and then stop again because you didn't make sure you understood it when you asked for clarification? Show a little bit of assertiveness and make sure you get the right info before you proceed.

lol, k guys, you got me.
I really just hate the quebecois accent.
but so does the rest of the world!

*runs*

Dion doesn't even have a qu�b�cois accent hehehe, he has more of an international french accent.

You can't even differentiate accents, how do you even know what you really hate

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper Then why not ask a few times before you start to answer the question? Why on earth did he begin to answer the question several times without knowing what he was being asked? if the interviewer gave him an insufficient response, then stop and demand proper clarification before you begin responding. Honestly if you were interviewing for a job, would you start answering a question, then stop and ask for clarficiation, then start answering again and then stop again because you didn't make sure you understood it when you asked for clarification? Show a little bit of assertiveness and make sure you get the right info before you proceed.

Dion could have handled it better. Instead of presuming context when he received none, he could have demanded clarity.

that this is being used by some as evidence of Dion not being fit to lead the coutnry is fucking ridiculous.

it's a non-story of something that should not have aired...but was aired by an irresponsible media outlet (shame on CTV) under the guise of having a "responsibility to the public".

it's bad enough that the media hypes issues to 'sell news' (youth violence, car accidents, etc)...but CREATING your own news is stooping to new low, IMHO.


btw...take this as evidence that mainstream media outlets are cetainly not all "Liberal-friendly", as has been claimed by so many people

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT car accidents, etc

haha, this was a car accident all right

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT He asked for clarification three times because the impatient idiot of an interviewer *repeatedly* didn't answer Dion's request for a further context. 'If you were PM, what would you do differently, that Mr. Harper has not done' Do differently if he had been elected today, had been elected in the last election...? The interviewer needed to qualify his question by providing for WHEN Dion would have become PM.

This is SUCH a cop-out. It's not a hard question to follow (despite the excuses of the many Liberal supporters). It's a very SIMPLE question actually, that ANY semi-intelligent person can understand. Dion understood the question just fine, he's not an idiot, he's spent MANY years in politics answering much more difficult questions than this one. The problem was not that he misunderstood, it's that he didn't have an answer, so he fell back on his "English is my second language" and "I have a hearing problem"(but only when sounds are layered, and during the interview, there were no outside noises) excuses to dodge the question.

If WHEN he is PM makes such a huge difference, then he could have answered as such:

"Well, if I had been elected in the last election, I would have done X and Y and Z. But, if I had only been elected last week then I would have done Q when I noticed that V. But I am NOT Prime Minister, so what I PLAN to do, if elected on the 14th is my 30/50 plan (as in, spend 30 days thinking about what I want to do for the next 50 days) for my first 80 days in power."

The problem is NOT that he misunderstood the question, he understood it just fine. The problem is that he did not, and DOES NOT have a single idea to fill in X, Y, Z, Q, or V. Because, other than his Green Shift, he has NO economic plan.

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard Fair enough... I've just seen an inordinate amount of attention being paid by you to Dion's communication skills

As a figure head, as THE representative of our country, and as somebody wanting to actually get shit done, communication skills should certainly scrutinized. We are not saying he cannot lead because he speaks french, the language is not important. What is important, is that he cannot be understood, and he does not understand. Again, the actual language is irrelevant.

Fine, maybe if the question was in French he would have been able to better understand, but it wasn't, that's it. At this level, we have to stop saying 'what if', and actually look at performances. There just is not a margin for error, not with so few days to go, and this being 'the top job in the country'.

So apparently the question was poorly constructed. As Melek pointed out, not all world leaders speak English at international events. So they have to speak through interpreters, and rely that these people will be able to understand, and translate what the leaders are saying. Since, most of us here have taken a second language, how often does translation come through 100%? Pretty much never. Some understanding, reading between the lines, and the ability to deconstruct a broken sentence would be needed when handling cross language negotiations. Does Dion inspire any hope that he could in fact pick up on these things?

Dion just has not done a good job at convincing me, and some others it seems, that he can actually lead. Coupled with his party's policies, that gets a big no no, for me.

For the record, I thought the question was decently clear. Sure he screwed up the tense, but I could still understand what he was trying to ask.

Wait..... There is an election this year?

quote:

Originally posted by malek My question is, 5-10 years down the road, if pollution is significantly reduced, thus taxation coming from that source, reduced. How will the government make up for those losses? Hike taxes back to their original levels?

So, I just talked to Bonnie Crombie (Liberal - Mississauga-Streetsville), about this issue. Apparently she was just in a Liberal conference call, where she brought about this very point. The official answer I got from her: there is no plan as of yet, and they would worry about it, when they got there. It is so far down the road, they really do not need to think about it now, and will draft legislation when they deem the levels have dropped enough.

That is basically the answer I thought I was going to get. Not good enough for me.

I just spent about 30 minutes watching Stephane Dion speak on CBC during an interview. I think that if one actually takes the time to listen to the man one realizes that not only is he smart and quite sincere in his intentions but he certainly can speak English well. Granted, he does have difficulty at times but I do not think his ability to lead our country would be jeopardized at all by his occasional (re: quite rare) comprehension issues.

quote:

Originally posted by Nick Cenik I just spent about 30 minutes watching Stephane Dion speak on CBC during an interview. I think that if one actually takes the time to listen to the man one realizes that not only is he smart and quite sincere in his intentions but he certainly can speak English well. Granted, he does have difficulty at times but I do not think his ability to lead our country would be jeopardized at all by his occasional (re: quite rare) comprehension issues.

This is the same opinion I tend to have, he's more difficult to understand than most, but you can still make it out if you try. Most people (voters) won't bother trying, they'll just tune him out. My problem is not that I don't believe he understands or lacks intelligence, I believe he's quite capable. And that's the reason I'm disappointed in this last interview attempt. He UNDERSTOOD the question, of that I have no doubt. But he had no answer and was trying to buy for time to think of one, but could not. I trust that he wants to save the environment and went to great lengths to create the 'Green Shift' in such a way that economists would give it a pass. But I have no faith in the claim that it will be 'revenue neutral', and I have no faith that Dion knows anything about governing a country after he implements his Green Shift.

quote:

Originally posted by Orko So, I just talked to Bonnie Crombie (Liberal - Mississauga-Streetsville), about this issue. Apparently she was just in a Liberal conference call, where she brought about this very point. The official answer I got from her: there is no plan as of yet, and they would worry about it, when they got there. It is so far down the road, they really do not need to think about it now, and will draft legislation when they deem the levels have dropped enough. That is basically the answer I thought I was going to get. Not good enough for me.

thank you very much for bringing this up!

Thats what I thought, its not a real plan, its just a knee-jerk-of-a-plan to get some green votes.

I don't know why you guys still debate Dion's abilities... this guy will resign next week after his defeat, so really it's a non-issue.

Most probably Harper will resign too after a few months for not being able to get a majority.

It'll be another minority CPC govt with a Liberal opposition, and if the sky falls on them, a Bloc official opposition.

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