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-- The Official 2008-2009 NBA/Toronto Raptors Discussion Thread
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one more rumour I've been hearing for a couple weeks that I'm not too big on:

Bulls-Raps trade

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Originally posted by SuperJimbo How Raptors could deal for Nash... Steve Nash already has been talking about finishing his career (his contract expires in 2010) in New York or back home in Canada. Why not sooner? I've heard speculation about such a possibility around the NBA. It's an intriguing proposition. The Suns start to look beyond Shaq now with the idea of building around Amare Stoudemire. While the Raptors push to get back in serious playoff contention to try to persuade Chris Bosh to resign. Toronto reportedly has been anxious to trade, but really has little of great value. Here's the deal and while bold, it could respond to both teams' desires. Nash, Leandro Barbosa and Robin Lopez for Jose Calderon, Andrea Bargnani, Anthony Parker and Jason Kopono and perhaps Jamario Moon to equalize salaries. (NBA.com) http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_...ash?eref=fromSI

wow this is a horrible fucking trade.

calderone is a top 30 player, bargnani is just realizing his potential. why would toronto even consider gutting it's team for one playoff run?

btw, nash is playing pretty crappy this year, he's suffering the D'antoni effect by not having so many offensive opportunities to stuff his stats like previous years.

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Originally posted by Yohan i dunno how many people would expect for Nash to take a backseat to Calderon right now (I mean NBA wise)

Calderon is arguably a better all-around PG than Nash *right now* and his numbers this year, almost across the board, are slightly better than Nash...with a FAR better turnover-assist ratio (key PG marker). That's playing with an inferior lineup too.

Now flash forward to the start of the 2010 season and the gap likely widens.

I guarantee if you poll the GMs/coaches in the league and asked them who they'd want starting for them in 2010, the overwhelming response would be Jose, not Nash

(edit: Nash has experience on him...I'll give him that).

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Originally posted by Sly_Guy one more rumour I've been hearing for a couple weeks that I'm not too big on: Bulls-Raps trade

fuck all of that. No thanks to Nocioni and/or Hughes. Nocioni is grossly overrated and Hughes just isn't what the Raps need. Gooden...um...where's he going to play? Too small for C, we have a PF, so unless he somehow slides down to SF (too slow)...?

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Nash, Leandro Barbosa and Robin Lopez for Jose Calderon, Andrea Bargnani, Anthony Parker and Jason Kopono and perhaps Jamario Moon to equalize salaries.

a big LOL to whoever came up with that too. that's soooooo ridiculous, I file it under the "I will boycott the Raps if..." category of trades, haha. There's NO way that trade will happen. Bargnani is going nowhere unless another legit big comes back.

I'm *all* for trading Jermaine if the Raps get value in return (preferably at SG or SF since Bargnani is looking more and more like the C that he eventually will be). Jermaine has missed ~10 games before the mid-point of the season and the value of that trade hinged on him being healthy (which he's not...surprise, surprise).

Too bad Beasely has been sucking in Miami. If he blew up, I wonder how feasible a Jermaine for Marion (adding pieces on each side to make it work) trade would be.

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Originally posted by MarkT fuck all of that. No thanks to Nocioni and/or Hughes. Nocioni is grossly overrated and Hughes just isn't what the Raps need. Gooden...um...where's he going to play? Too small for C, we have a PF, so unless he somehow slides down to SF (too slow)...?

Nocioni, not the althletic player we need.
Hughes, bad contract.

As for any suns trade involving bargs/calderone, puh-leeeease!

Rumor has it the raptors are going to trade the whole team plus $40 million for the Celtics

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced Rumor has it the raptors are going to trade the whole team plus $40 million for the Celtics

LOL!!

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Originally posted by Sly_Guy last two vs the celts: A lot of positives to be taken, Bargs and team toughness [JOEY! JOEY!] being the biggest ones. Let's hope even though they went 0/2, they'll realize that they were up against the defending champs and losing a couple close ones isn't anything to be ashamed of. Things they need to clean up: long shot, long rebound. Bosh, you can't be afraid of KG, you're quicker, just drive from 10 feet instead of 5, and you'll be far enough ahead so he can't block your shot. Moon still makes me sick with his shot selection. Oh, and Roko's gonna be some player, look out in 2-3.

Yea, even though they lost they managed to give themselves a chance in both games. Talk about being resilient. Earlier this year they would've just folded whereas here the games went down to the final seconds.

Agree with you on Moon. Every time the ball lands in his hands I cringe. That wide-open 3 that the C's gave him was pathetic. You need to hit that shit in the dying seconds.

Roko has been absolutely phenomenal. His ball handling skills are amazing and his basketball IQ is very impressive. That layup of his from the foul line is so clutch. Once he develops a consistent long range shot he'll be very, very dangerous.

Solomon needs to go. That guy is the definition of "brain fart" on the court.

Question for all you guys.

Who would you rather have? Rashard Lewis or Yao Ming?

I just made this trade with MarkT in my nba fantasy league. Rashard gets you monster 3Ptrs and lots of minutes/points. Yao ming gets you fg%, boards and blocks. However i think i may be taking on a risk b/c Yao may get injured and not play a full 82game season unlike Rashard who is super durable...

I'd take lewis....but what do I know...I'm white, can't jump and can't play basketball

we.fucking.suck.

^^^ yeah...looked pretty good in the 4th, but WTF for the first three quarters.

Parker looked alright running the point and was really getting on everyone's case to step up. I'd love to see that intensity all game long...

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Originally posted by Porky Question for all you guys. Who would you rather have? Rashard Lewis or Yao Ming? I just made this trade with MarkT in my nba fantasy league. Rashard gets you monster 3Ptrs and lots of minutes/points. Yao ming gets you fg%, boards and blocks. However i think i may be taking on a risk b/c Yao may get injured and not play a full 82game season unlike Rashard who is super durable...

Given that my team FG% is awful, it was a tough choice as that's the big gap between them.

straight up, Yao has a slight edge in numbers and a good C is harder to come by than a F. the decision to accept was indeed based on my bet that Yao gets hurt at some point, lol.

Me and my buddies are thinking of going for Raptors tryouts in the off season, lol.

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Originally posted by MarkT ^^^ yeah...looked pretty good in the 4th, but WTF for the first three quarters. Parker looked alright running the point and was really getting on everyone's case to step up. I'd love to see that intensity all game long... Given that my team FG% is awful, it was a tough choice as that's the big gap between them. straight up, Yao has a slight edge in numbers and a good C is harder to come by than a F. the decision to accept was indeed based on my bet that Yao gets hurt at some point, lol.

I was gonna say, why give up more rebounds and blocks for better %3pt?

Rashard is scoring 3+ treys/game, an extra steal, assist and one less turnover per game, on average, vs. Yao.

The kicker is that Yao has missed 25 or more games in each of the last three seasons, but played 3 full ones before that. Is Yao healthy or is he going to end up hurt at some point?

Chris admittedly wins the close deal if Yao plays the full season.

I'm trying to spur a little trade activity too...we've had none so far!

I hope this rumour is indeed picking up steam:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?sl...=yhoo&type=lgns

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As Jermaine O�Neal and his troublesome right knee returned to the Toronto lineup on Friday night, perhaps no one studied the Toronto Raptors center more closely than Pat Riley. The Miami Heat president has been seriously considering a trade package for O�Neal that would send Shawn Marion to Toronto, multiple league sources said. Yet Riley first needs to see O�Neal�s progress before he�ll make the leap of faith on a trade. Nevertheless, O�Neal, 30, was telling league associates as recently as Friday that he believes there�s a good chance he�ll end up in Miami. �If he�s healthy,� one source close to O�Neal said Friday, �it could very well happen.� League executives say that Riley has been determined to make a deal for a center, and has had substantive talks with Toronto GM Bryan Colangelo. No GM has seemed more determined to overhaul his team than Colangelo, and several league executives say he won�t hesitate to take Marion � whom he drafted in Phoenix � and his expiring $17.1 million contract for O�Neal. Miami would need to include another player, or two, to make the salaries match. O�Neal makes $21.3 million this season, and has a player�s option for $23 million for the next season. Colangelo has been willing to move everyone on his roster but Chris Bosh, Jose Calderon and Andrea Bargnani. In fact, the emergence of Bargnani, the 2006 No. 1 overall pick, has made an even stronger case for moving O�Neal. Before returning to the struggling Raptors on Friday, O�Neal had missed nine straight games with a sore right knee. He�s averaging 14 points and 7.2 rebounds a game. For Miami, the core choice is difficult: How much does the 7-footer have left in that battered body? The Heat had been believed to be a favored destination for Utah�s Carlos Boozer, but there are increasing questions about Boozer�s appeal because he has knee problems of his own. Riley �doesn�t seem as interested in cap space this summer,� said a rival executive who exchanged trade proposals with him recently. �He just seems concerned with having space in 2010.� The Feb. 19 trade deadline is looming.

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Originally posted by MarkT Rashard is scoring 3+ treys/game, an extra steal, assist and one less turnover per game, on average, vs. Yao. The kicker is that Yao has missed 25 or more games in each of the last three seasons, but played 3 full ones before that. Is Yao healthy or is he going to end up hurt at some point? Chris admittedly wins the close deal if Yao plays the full season. I'm trying to spur a little trade activity too...we've had none so far!

yea, b/c of RAshard i'm about +80 3PTRs ahead of 3rd place. so even with Rashard out i still have enough of a healthy cusion to maintain 2nd in 3PTRs

the bet really depends on yao's health, you are right. if he plays 82 games then the deal is in my favor. if he is injured again in a month or two then i will be fucked. but im taking a risk in that yao has all the categories i currently need (fg%, reb). so if he plays 82games i have a chance to win the league.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/nba/article/573052

quote:

O'Neal trade talk Heats up Raptor's health the last sticking point in deal that would see Miami's Marion come to T.O. Jan 18, 2009 04:30 AM DOUG SMITH SPORTS REPORTER The Raptors are moving toward a significant mid-season trade that would ship Jermaine O'Neal to the Miami Heat for Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks in a deal involving highly paid veterans unable to fit seamlessly into new situations. Multiple league sources confirmed yesterday that talks have progressed to the point where the trade, although not imminent, could be finalized when the Heat are satisfied O'Neal is healthy enough to help them in their drive for the Eastern Conference playoffs. How many more games it will take to convince the Heat is unclear, but the sources confirmed talks are nearly completed at the highest levels of each organization. Raptor officials, citing long-held team rules, would not comment on trade speculation. O'Neal, according to sources and various Internet reports, has told friends and acquaintances that he expects to be dealt to Miami. League sources tell the Star that nothing is expected to happen in the next 24 or 48 hours and it could be more than a week before any deal is finalized. The Raptors have a home game against Phoenix today and start a three-game road trip in Atlanta tomorrow; the Heat played last night and today and begin a four-game homestand on Wednesday. One thing is certain, and that is the Raptors are shopping the 30-year-old O'Neal, who played Friday night for the first time in 10 games in Toronto's loss to the Indiana Pacers after missing nine games with a knee injury. Averaging 13.6 points and 7.2 rebounds per game, he has been effective but not overwhelming in a half-season after being acquired from the Pacers for T.J. Ford and Rasho Nesterovic in a multi-player July transaction. The emergence of Andrea Bargnani as a bona fide NBA starting centre � he's averaging more than 20 points per game � has made moving O'Neal and his contract � $21.372 million this season, $23.016 million next season (all figures U.S.) � a priority for general manager Bryan Colangelo. Marion, whose $17,810,000 contract expires at the end of this season, hasn't fit perfectly with the Heat after being obtained last season from Phoenix in a deal for Shaquille O'Neal. The 30-year-old is averaging 12.1 points and 9.2 rebounds and would be seen in some circles as a major defensive and rebounding upgrade at small forward for Toronto. And the Raptors seem in desperate need of help. The loss in Indiana was their fourth in a row and they hit the midway point in the regular season with a 16-25 record, 3 1/2 games out of the eighth and final Eastern Conference playoff spot. While the principals in the deal are O'Neal and Marion, Banks would be included to satisfy the NBA's arcane salary cap rules. Banks has been unable to find playing time for the point guard-starved Heat, who have been using rookie Mario Chalmers and journeyman Chris Quinn. But he could get a chance to challenge Roko Ukic and Will Solomon in Toronto for backup minutes once the injured Jose Calderon returns. The biggest problem with Banks is a cumbersome contract. The 27-year-old has two years and more than $9 million left on his deal after this season, leaving Toronto contractually obligated to a potential non-contributor when the best free-agent class in league history hits the market in 2010. O'Neal told reporters in Toronto on Thursday he understood he'd be the centre of trade speculation and said he would be fine with moving, if he had to, after only half a season with the Raptors.

^^^^^

All players involved in this rumoured deal are healthy scratches today. Some people think it's because the deal is already done. Apparently (hopefully) Kapono is involved in this deal as well as it's obvious his contract is a big waste. That performance in the playoffs was a nice one-hit wonder. Now we just need to get rid of Moon and Solomon.

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Originally posted by infinity HiGH ^^^^^ All players involved in this rumoured deal are healthy scratches today. Some people think it's because the deal is already done. Apparently (hopefully) Kapono is involved in this deal as well as it's obvious his contract is a big waste. That performance in the playoffs was a nice one-hit wonder. Now we just need to get rid of Moon and Solomon.

Dude, he's a shooter...straight up. One of the best in the league for sure. Shooters hit shots. But good how is a shooter when the rest of the team is fucking garbage? You're asking a guy who was brought here to do one specific thing, to do things outside of what he was brought here to do. No wonder it seems like he's playing like shit all the time when the only person who has showed up on the team all season has been Bosh. Kapono is like that fourth option killer who puts teams over the top. Think of how good he would be on a team like San An, Phoenix, LA....he would be lighting it up because he would be the 4th option on the floor. On the Raps...different story....if we were actually decent...he would be money and just the type of guy that we wanted on our team.

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Originally posted by slingshot Dude, he's a shooter...straight up. One of the best in the league for sure. Shooters hit shots. But good is a shooter when the rest of the team is fucking garbage? You're asking a guy who was brought here to do one specific thing, to do things outside of what he was brought here to do. No one it seems like he's playing like shit all the time when the only person who has showed up on the team all season has been Bosh.

IF all he can do is shoot then by God he better be fucking good at it.

Right now though I'd argue against him being a good shooter. He's missed some easy looks in the 5-game losing streak when we needed a shot the most. Sure; he nails a beautiful 3 pointer when we don't need it but when there's 30 seconds left in the game and he misses or, better yet, turns it over then what good is he? He's so not clutch its not even funny. Frankly speaking I don't even want to see Kapono on the court in the final 2 minutes because other than shoot (and miss) and he can't do anything else, as you said. He even passes up open looks for a contested layup (whereas Jamario jacks up shots instead of using his hops to get to the net)

He's a great shooter during All Star Weekend though. I'll give him that. During a game though, there's easily 20 other players in this league I'd rather have taking the final shot than him.

GREAT article about the NBA and Obama's victory just in time for his inauguration:

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/featur...0118/index.html

Just a heads up....Raps up 1 with about 1 minute left....

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=290119001

If the deal happens, it's Marion and Banks for Jermaine.

Kapono's salary would throw the deal way out of wack and the Raps would need to take back more players.

Marion makes 17 mil + Banks' 4 = Jermaine's 20-21.

Raps get to see what Marion brings to the team for a little over half a season. If he meshes, maybe they resign him (his contract is up this year). If not, or he choses to leave, Raps have about 15 mil. to spend on a legit SF or SG.

This all would have happened this year or next with Jermaine. By dealing him, the Raps potentially accelerate the process. I don't see this as a 'failure'...just an experiment that didn't go as planned. If they get Marion (and Banks) it becomes TJ + Rasho for them, which is still a good outcome, IMHO.

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Originally posted by SuperJimbo Just a heads up....Raps up 1 with about 1 minute left.... http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=290119001

and.... we fucked that one up too lol

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