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-- Andy moor... how good is this guy?
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quote:

Originally posted by Mike_Foyle its not the producers who shape the future. its the labels who choose what music to release. there has been and always will be shit music, but it always used to be harder to get stuff released because the labels had higher standards.

well said

quote:

Originally posted by eRRaTiK yes the ol'skool peepz can bitch about wishing the music had stayed underground and all that, but what's done is done.

see really in all honesty i don't think this is what its about. i could care less how popular tiesto got...he could be michael jackson for all i care as long as he still performed in my eyes. the people that are upset i think are really just more mad about the music...and maybe they are frustrated that everyone else doesn't seem to notice...but its not because of the popularity directly. the popularity however is a means to an end. i see the life of a lot of these big name dj's like this...

they start out unknown and play tunes that they really enjoy and they think are the best and begin to climb as a dj because of it...

they market themselves well and eventually they gain a following because people love and appreciate the effort and style put into their sound...

as they get larger and larger, they start getting sent more and more material from other people in the industry hoping to get it played by the new hot dj, but still they are playing the stuff that they like...

there schedules become busier and busier until they no longer do things like go to the record store or dig through their record collections, instead they begin to identify what they believe people want to hear...

they come to the conclusion about the type of music people want to hear and because they want to become as big as possible, they start playing and making tracks more because they think people want to hear them and not because they like them...

they start to enjoy success because a lot of people that didn't like the genres they got famous playing are liking the more commercial sound, and so they continue to do what seems to be working making themselves larger than life...

at this point they are so far away from where they started, a good majority of the fans that appreciated there early careers become disenchanted and begin to criticize them, wishing they'd go back to the old style...

because they have been successful, but successful with a different group of people entirely, they continue to thrive and make lots of money. the majority of their new fans are people that didn't like EDM before because either 1. they don't know anything other than their new found DJ, or 2. they have always only liked songs with a certain borderline mainstream feel, chances being they wouldn't have liked their new fav dj's old sound....

the people that have always loved the genre see the loss in quality and because of it they look to other genres and dj's that are still in it for the same reasons that they are...

bla bla bla...

Well said Jason.

^^
I couldnt agree more.

my 2c...



Every genre has its good and bad examples, but uplifting has backed itself into a corner somehow. By trying to attain the perfect clap, the perfect supersaw, the perfect melody, its created a culture of sameness. I guess that happens when the whole scene is ruled by just a few top name DJ's and producers and everyone try's to copy their sound.

Its fucked for trance fans, its fucked for trance music in general and people have every right to be pissed about it. You can only get uplifted in the same direction with the same melodies so many times before you realise you've been there before.

Well said once again, Jason

It seems there's more to you than just a C0re whore

wow, i quit my boycott of this thread simply to say wow.. what a post

quote:

Originally posted by Floorfiller Electronic Resistance - Human Been

Deetron remix

Should dig up the complete track somewhere.

quote:

Originally posted by DjRonskiSpeed Alot of people have a lot of interesting points about Andy Moor and Armin Incl. (I hate to say it ) DjMikeyMike. Let me start off by saying that Andy Moor is not nearly as good of a producer as he used to be...but that's the case with most trance/house producers these days. Just think of Armins's Asot and Markus Schultz Global dj broadcast as being the "TRL" of the EDM community. Don't try to talk shit about them just because you disapprove of their track selections, they play 15 to 20 tracks on average per set to give listeners (fans or not) a chance to hear new tracks before its released..Think of it as a "Blessing" to the EDM community. Most of the shit on Mtv is also trash, yet they're ratings are huge because of mass appeal. Just because you don't like the track selection doesn't mean the next person won't, Thats why Armin is still around and is still considered/recognized as one of the top djs in the world and clubs still love to book him. I guess the "Haters" will always stay on their job even though they know they couldn't budge someone as huge as Armin Van Buuren. Armin and Markus introduced a lot of new producers with talent like Mike Foyle, Hydroid, Elevation, etc. So all you small time producers *cough* DjMikeyMike *cough* and many others, keep on hating. Your not going to stop these very popular Djs doing what they keep doing. Now thats a FACT..Live with it.

Theonly cool thing about ASOT is that Armin puts down his money for it but then again the after effect is rewarding because a bunch of people go see him for he played on ASOT.

Also Doombot I know your still new to this scene but you should really give a listen to some older stuff livesets/albums and one morething NYTA sucks

quote:

Originally posted by Ory Yeah, but it's usually because they don't know any better. I'd probably still be listening to trance if I didn't go out LOOKING for different music. The trance was good, but hey, I'm inquisitive by nature. It's all down to whether they want to put effort into finding better music, or if they want to stick to something they *think* they like best (but how would they know?).

it's nice to see you put across a point in a decent way for once. but i still disagree with it... just because they don't hunt deeper for music i wouldn't say it made their tastes inferior. i think anyone who tries to objectively grade the quality of someone's taste based on the music they like is a moron, but that's probably just me.

either way it's not like ASOT is played on daytime radio/mtv or whatever; the vast majority of trance isn't overground enough for people to be exposed to it, they would have had to have gone LOOKING for the different music in the first place in order to find it, like you say. there's always some level where you find your sound & stop looking any further, and it's different for everyone.

also the point you make of all armin/tiesto etc fans liking them because they don't know any better seems a bit of an extreme assumption... if they'd experimented with a wide variety or other musical styles and still preferred epic trance/mcprog, would you still lump them in the same basket?




*** random point 1, i was unaware armin disliked some of the material he plays on ASOT. if this is the case then my opinion of him has decreased further

*** random point 2, i quite like armin when he plays tech-trance. he's bashed it out pretty solid before and his mixing seems to be better with it than on standard trance/mcprog etc, wish he'd persue that direction more

quote:

Originally posted by eRRaTiK Ronski 1 - Mikey 0

How did you figure that one out then? His post was full of shit to the point where it wasn't even worth the effort in quoting/replying too. Nice one.

Also, nice post Jason. Next time someone brings up the old 'cut the elitist bullshit' chestnut, i'll be sure to just point them in that posts direction.

quote:

Originally posted by isoterra also the point you make of all armin/tiesto etc fans liking them because they don't know any better seems a bit of an extreme assumption... if they'd experimented with a wide variety or other musical styles and still preferred epic trance/mcprog, would you still lump them in the same basket?

Finally someone put words on what I've been thinking. This doesn't just go for Orys bashings, but many other "elites".

I guess the reply would be "if you still prefer epic trance/mcprog you're a moron and your taste in music suck!"

quote:

Originally posted by Redd I guess the reply would be "if you still prefer epic trance/mcprog you're a moron and your taste in music suck!"

And that would make the elitists just as bad as the commercial people, as BOTH are telling people what they should be listening to, as opposed to letting them choose.

EDM.... Electronic Dictatorship Music?

could't agree more with the following three statements:

quote:

Originally posted by isoterra 01. there's always some level where you find your sound & stop looking any further, and it's different for everyone. 02. also the point you make of all armin/tiesto etc fans liking them because they don't know any better seems a bit of an extreme assumption... if they'd experimented with a wide variety or other musical styles and still preferred epic trance/mcprog, would you still lump them in the same basket? 03. *** random point 2, i quite like armin when he plays tech-trance. he's bashed it out pretty solid before and his mixing seems to be better with it than on standard trance/mcprog etc, wish he'd persue that direction more

01. at the end of the day, you'll get sick of the sound you've discovered anyway. i remember ASOT XXL 134 with Ben Lost.. that was the first time i was exposed to the so called "mcprog", and at that time i adored it.. six months later, my enthousiasm had disappeared, and i went out looking for different stuff again. what i'm saying is that the ppl who are very much into Armin van Buuren right now will not be anymore at some point; just give it some time.. there's no point in trying to force someone to like something else.

02. i can very much relate to that.. i'd still put trance above anything else, simply because it has everything i look for in music: energy and the feeling of euphoria. i just love the way a trance track slowly builds up tension to burst out into a climax.. it's just a great feeling when that happens. trance is very much like an earthquake.
i do love other types of music, though. i don't listen to trance 24 hours a day. my collection includes a wide variety of styles, and it does not consist of electronic music only.. but if i had to choose, i'd go for trance any day.

03. i love his techier side as well, and there was a time he was dropping lots of tech-trance in his sets (second half of 2003/first half of 2004). unfortunately, he tends to select rather fluffy records these days.. live he's still very different than in ASOT, but he does tend to leave the most interesting records at home and play the inspireless generic shit..

quote:

Originally posted by Floorfiller i'm not going to get all involved in this thread because i think its pretty stupid...but this is exactly what is wrong with music these days. why the FUCK would you want to play stuff that you don't think is good? that's the stupidest thing i've ever heard. if armin just plays shit because its new and he thinks he's being nice by exposing people to new stuff, no matter how gash it is, that is the wrong attitude. i'm sorry, but if people can't make music that is good...they don't deserve to have it heard...

Because he wants to be nice and give people some airtime? The hell is wrong with that? Do you think radio djs like every rock and roll song that they play for the audience? No.

quote:

Originally posted by isoterra

Let me ask you this. Do you think taste in music has anything to do with intelligence, or how the brain functions?

If you don't, we might aswell stop right there.

quote:

Originally posted by DOOMBOT Because he wants to be nice and give people some airtime? The hell is wrong with that? Do you think radio djs like every rock and roll song that they play for the audience? No.

A DJ's job is to filter out the good from the bad. Now why does he deserve to be a top #5 DJ if he plays everything he gets that's either McProg or epic trance? What's the point in that? That's rediiculase.

quote:

Originally posted by DOOMBOT Because he wants to be nice and give people some airtime? The hell is wrong with that? Do you think radio djs like every rock and roll song that they play for the audience? No.

ok i'll say this. its one thing if he plays them on his radioshow because he, for some reason, can tolerate playing music that he doesn't like...


but...

its entirely different when you build your entire career around that same music.

quote:

Originally posted by Ory Let me ask you this. Do you think taste in music has anything to do with intelligence, or how the brain functions? If you don't, we might aswell stop right there.

So what you are trying to say is simple people like simple music?

So why is it the norm to class people who like techno or prog to be more intelliegent? surely as those forms of music rely mainly on rhythm and not melodic elements those genres of music are simple.

quote:

Originally posted by Floorfiller ok i'll say this. its one thing if he plays them on his radioshow because he, for some reason, can tolerate playing music that he doesn't like... but... its entirely different when you build your entire career around that same music.

A lot of the music on ASOT is very good. If he likes it, he is gonna spin it. Apparently, from attending his live gigs and reading reviews of others, it is working for him very well.

quote:

Originally posted by DOOMBOT A lot of the music on ASOT is very good. If he likes it, he is gonna spin it. Apparently, from attending his live gigs and reading reviews of others, it is working for him very well.

ok well let look at two extremes...

1. armin plays all music that he personally doesn't like...

2. armin plays all music that he personally does like...


which would you prefer? i mean...what if armin started playing dj sammy on ASOT...maybe he doesn't like it, but shouldn't he give it a chance like all the other producers that he plays? because that's the logic that you're suggesting.

all i'm saying is that for having a very popular radioshow...one which he doesn't get paid to do...why would you want to play music that you don't like? that's ridiculous...the reason you gave i don't buy and i see it as just a smart business decision, but not characteristic of a great dj...

I think because Armin is one who cares greatly about his fans and the people who love the music in general. You can obviously see that he is having a great time when he is spinning live. I would find it almost impossible to imagine any dj to be able to smile and dance around as much as he does if they were spinning music that they absolutely could not stand. I think a lot of people are misinterpreting what his ASOT show stands for and for that reason gives him a bad name to you. I understand and will continue to like him for what he does for the trance community and for what he does for those who take an extra step in going to see him perform live.

listening to ASOT and seeing Armin live are two totally different things...


you're looking at them as one, when in fact, they aren't.

quote:

Originally posted by Vyper0987 listening to ASOT and seeing Armin live are two totally different things... you're looking at them as one, when in fact, they aren't.

I hope you aren't referring to me, because I clearly know the difference. You see it when you go to one of his live performances.

quote:

Originally posted by Vyper0987 listening to ASOT and seeing Armin live are two totally different things... you're looking at them as one, when in fact, they aren't.

hey i can agree to that. hell seeing sasha and zabiela live is entirely different from their radio broadcasts as well...

even if we agree to disagree about the purpose of ASOT, i still feel the way i do about the genre as a whole...

quote:

Originally posted by DOOMBOT I hope you aren't referring to me, because I clearly know the difference. You see it when you go to one of his live performances.

i have...three of them in the past year and a half. maybe you do know the difference, but when floorfiller talks about ASOT, mentioning armin's live performances doesn't really even come into the equation

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