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-- The illegal war is on :: denounce America’s imperialism !
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LKD, I wish the ICC (international criminal court) could be of help here but the fact of the matter is...You still have to somehow get Saddam to show up. I can just picture the officer serving the subpona.."uh...Mr Hussein...uh...can you come to Holland and stand trial for war crimes?" "No. Fuck you" " UH then...have a nice day!". HE wouldn't go forcebly so people would still have to come in arrest him you know? Also, I don't think assasination would help one bit. It only seems to incite people. Remember, WW2 was started because Archduke Ferdinand was assasinated. I think that the middle east would become worse than it is right now. Also, The Geneva convention states that people can't be put through humiliated treatment and showing dead soldiers/POWs in really rough shape. Showing people who are scared out of their minds is quite humiliating for not only the soldiers but also their families.

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Originally posted by Ray_Finkle LKD, I wish the ICC (international criminal court) could be of help here but the fact of the matter is...You still have to somehow get Saddam to show up. I can just picture the officer serving the subpona.."uh...Mr Hussein...uh...can you come to Holland and stand trial for war crimes?" "No. Fuck you" " UH then...have a nice day!". HE wouldn't go forcebly so people would still have to come in arrest him you know? Also, I don't think assasination would help one bit. It only seems to incite people. Remember, WW2 was started because Archduke Ferdinand was assasinated. I think that the middle east would become worse than it is right now. Also, The Geneva convention states that people can't be put through humiliated treatment and showing dead soldiers/POWs in really rough shape. Showing people who are scared out of their minds is quite humiliating for not only the soldiers but also their families.

well this current war is on the verge of WW3 too man...the final war aint far away.....its sad but true...



and during the first gulf war, when CNN journalists still had access to Iraq, dead Iraqi soldiers were shown on TV...and as i mentioned before, they were showing dead taliban soldiers as well during the afhanistan war last year

I haven't seen those pics (I can't remember...I was in grade 1 during the first Gulf War) so if/when I see them, I will concede that point. And also, I think that you and a lot of others are vastly overestimating the possibility of a WW3 here. I think the only way a huge war on the scales of the first two WW will be if countries start launching nukes all over the place.

Also, my views on the Taliban fight and this fight are completely different. I do not agree with how the US just imprisoned everyone they captured indefinitly (they get away with this cause no one recognizes the Taliban I believe). Also, I think there was something like 135 combat deaths in the first Gulf War and I can't even fathom the number of people who died in the two world wars.

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Originally posted by DJ El Kay Dee well this current war is on the verge of WW3 too man...the final war aint far away.....its sad but true... and during the first gulf war, when CNN journalists still had access to Iraq, dead Iraqi soldiers were shown on TV...and as i mentioned before, they were showing dead taliban soldiers as well during the afhanistan war last year

Afghanistan "soldiers" (as you called them) are not classified as soldiers under the Geneva conventions. Coalition forces could do anything they please with the prisoners if they wanted too.

Also, alot of Iraqies are abandoning their uniforms and going back home, only to make a stand from their homes. Once they abandon their uniforms they are no longer "soldiers", just a bunch of gutless pricks.

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Originally posted by USMC_Greg Afghanistan "soldiers" (as you called them) are not classified as soldiers under the Geneva conventions. Coalition forces could do anything they please with the prisoners if they wanted too. Also, alot of Iraqies are abandoning their uniforms and going back home, only to make a stand from their homes. Once they abandon their uniforms they are no longer "soldiers", just a bunch of gutless pricks.

funny u call them gutless when they surrender

the other side u pro war people are saying that the Iraqi army shouldve surrendered to avoid the war

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Originally posted by Ray_Finkle Remember, WW2 was started because Archduke Ferdinand was assasinated.

Assasination of Archduke Ferdinand triggered WW1, and coincidentaly, he was assasinated in my hometown, Sarajevo.

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Originally posted by TranceGeek Assasination of Archduke Ferdinand triggered WW1, and coincidentaly, he was assasinated in my hometown, Sarajevo.

The package has been wrapped

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Originally posted by dEsidEL "No peace among the nations without peace among the religions. No peace among religions without dialogue between the religions. No dialogue between the religions without investigation of the foundation of the religions." - Hans Küng

true, hehe

20 pages later and almost a week after the start of the American-led aggression, it’s good to see that most fellow tranceaddicts denounce hypocritical imperialist terrorism in Iraq; however it’s repugnant to observe that some of us still can’t detect the transparent bully scheme of our southern neighbors, by digesting CNN’s balderdash and American propaganda.

The whole planet is against this American invasion yet Bush calls it Operation Iraqi Freedom. It’s interesting to observe that mad cowboy's asinine scheme of liberating Iraq from Saddam Hussein within a week is turning into a farce. What Iraqi people are liberating themselves from is the aggression from another vile tyrant on the other side of the globe, who seems to think that America is the superpower who will do what they want when they want and in their interest. Imposing democracy by undemocratic means is thoroughly despicable, invading a country though false pretenses is a misdemeanor of the uttermost nature. The hypocrisy is downright outrageous!

Anyone who bothers to perform even a rudimentary scrutiny of American involvement in Iraq will find the supposed groundwork for this war simply bogus. Bush’s grasping at straws to justify this invasion to the world is pitiable and shame to all the gutless cowards who stand alongside this bully, that includes the heads of all the allies from Azerbaijan to Eritrea.

Cheers

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Originally posted by Tudo Beleza The reason that the USA does not assassinate leaders http://edition.cnn.com/2002/LAW/11/...ination.policy/ In 1976, President Ford issued Executive Order 11905 to clarify U.S. foreign intelligence activities. The order was enacted in response to the post-Watergate revelations that the CIA had staged multiple attempts on the life of Cuban President Fidel Castro. In a section of the order labeled "Restrictions on Intelligence Activities," Ford outlawed political assassination: Section 5(g), entitled "Prohibition on Assassination," states: "No employee of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, political assassination."

i thought they reformed that .. ? it's an executive order anyways, so Bush can toss it out if he wants since it's not something passed by congress..

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Originally posted by Dj-HordasH 20 pages later and almost a week after the start of the American-led aggression, it’s good to see that most fellow tranceaddicts denounce hypocritical imperialist terrorism in Iraq; however it’s repugnant to observe that some of us still can’t detect the transparent bully scheme of our southern neighbors, by digesting CNN’s balderdash and American propaganda. The whole planet is against this American invasion yet Bush calls it Operation Iraqi Freedom. It’s interesting to observe that mad cowboy's asinine scheme of liberating Iraq from Saddam Hussein within a week is turning into a farce. What Iraqi people are liberating themselves from is the aggression from another vile tyrant on the other side of the globe, who seems to think that America is the superpower who will do what they want when they want and in their interest. Imposing democracy by undemocratic means is thoroughly despicable, invading a country though false pretenses is a misdemeanor of the uttermost nature. The hypocrisy is downright outrageous! Anyone who bothers to perform even a rudimentary scrutiny of American involvement in Iraq will find the supposed groundwork for this war simply bogus. Bush’s grasping at straws to justify this invasion to the world is pitiable and shame to all the gutless cowards who stand alongside this bully, that includes the heads of all the allies from Azerbaijan to Eritrea. Cheers

has anyone seen the documentaries on CBC - The Passionate Eye on "The War Behind Closed Doors" and the Patriot Missile scandal .. ?

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Originally posted by dEsidEL has anyone seen the documentaries on CBC - The Passionate Eye on "The War Behind Closed Doors" and the Patriot Missile scandal .. ?

ya ive seen both

and right now theres an excellent historical documentary on iraq entitled "Oil in Iraq: Curse or Blessing"


in the patriot missle documentary, it shows how Hussein is not the onlly liar but so was Bush Sr. who lied to his own people

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Originally posted by TranceGeek Assasination of Archduke Ferdinand triggered WW1, and coincidentaly, he was assasinated in my hometown, Sarajevo.

AHHHHHHH I AM AN IDIOT!! Why did I think it was WW2? Oh well, I knew he was assasinated in Sarajevo and I did know it was WW1, HONESTLY!!

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Originally posted by DJ El Kay Dee could u please quote teh posts that show hatred to american PEOPLE?? how can u assume that war is the answer...all this war is doin now is hightening the threat of more terrorist attacks against America. in the past 12 years, the budget for the Iraqi Army was reduced from 22.5 billion to a mere 1.2 billion. i dont see a threat on such a low budget if Hussein really needs to be removed from power (as we all agree on), there is something known as international court of Justice (which America refuses to be part of because they have political figures that would be tried under that court). if the US had the intention of killing Hussein (which its obvious they always had), they couldve simply assasinated him and his right hand men and have a few deaths as compared to putting the rest of Iraq in danger and killing hundreds of civilians. the reason why the assassination alternative is not being used is because if it was used, the US would not be able to take the blame for it because they would benifit nothin. i.e. theyre puppet would not be put into power and they would not be able to "capture" and "secure" teh oil wells as they are doing now for their own purposes

Alright so you present the option of assassination. I have identified three problems as I see it.

1. As was mentioned before, under american and international law this is strictly forbidden. If they did execute Saddam Hussein i am sure criticisms would be just as great in America and in the international community as they currently are. Also be aware that once war was waged, they did try to assasinate Saddam and his leadership elite trying to avoid a long drawn out and bloody war.

2. The second problem with assassination is simply that Saddam Hussein has been very difficult to locate. He has numerous look-alikes acting as decoys and has proven to be very elusive from American intelligence. You can be assured that if they could assassinate him now, throughout the course of this war, to save American and Iraqi civilian lives they would.

3. And this being the stongest. As you said the americans probably opted not to assassinate because of the inability to place a puppet government. While this is likely a strong motive, you have to look at the effect for Iraq and not just the Americans. If the leaders were assassinated nobody would have control over who takes power within the country. Who would replace him? What would happen if the next leader or the next government was just as oppressive or even more so than Saddam's regime. The last thing the Iraqi people need is another dictator which is what would very likely arise. Without some kind of international assistance it would be next to impossible to establish a stable democracy overnight. It is very likely that nothing would be accomplished and the Iraqi people would return back to square one.

Alright, so that is the situation as I see it. Again I ask what alternatives does the world and the American government have? How should Saddam be dealt with? What is the best solution that incorporates both the Iraqi people and American civilians?

just curious as to how long everyone here spends each day reading war threads and posting replies .. ?

almost every msg board i post on has war threads rite now regardless of the websites' subject area. i'm just finding it almost impossible to keep up now without wasting away my whole day which i don't find to be quite appealing and quite sad if i could add..

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Originally posted by DJ El Kay Dee ya ive seen both and right now theres an excellent historical documentary on iraq entitled "Oil in Iraq: Curse or Blessing" in the patriot missle documentary, it shows how Hussein is not the onlly liar but so was Bush Sr. who lied to his own people

Yes, I like that show because it shows me the evils of the U.S. throughout history. Some very good documentaries over the years.

Quite frankly I'm really opposed to alot of what the Americans have done in the past. But this war is for a just cause. The Americans are right here.

When choosing between two evils I try to go for the lesser of the two.

George W. Bush: Mr. Saddam Hussein, by mandate of the District of Columbia Precrime Division, I'm placing you under arrest for the future proliferation of WMD to terrorists and their subsequent murder of US citizens that was to take place today, April 22 at 0800 hours and four minutes.


John Anderton: Why'd you catch that?
Danny Witwer: Because it was going to fall.
John Anderton: You sure?
Danny Witwer: Yeah.
John Anderton: But it didn't. Because you caught it. The fact that you stopped it from falling doesn't mean it wasn't going to fall.

hrmmz.. the concept of pre-emption is funny sometimes ..

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Originally posted by dEsidEL George W. Bush: Mr. Saddam Hussein, by mandate of the District of Columbia Precrime Division, I'm placing you under arrest for the future proliferation of WMD to terrorists and their subsequent murder of US citizens that was to take place today, April 22 at 0800 hours and four minutes. John Anderton: Why'd you catch that? Danny Witwer: Because it was going to fall. John Anderton: You sure? Danny Witwer: Yeah. John Anderton: But it didn't. Because you caught it. The fact that you stopped it from falling doesn't mean it wasn't going to fall. hrmmz.. the concept of pre-emption is funny sometimes ..

sometimes, but not in this case

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Originally posted by DJ El Kay Dee they would not be able to "capture" and "secure" teh oil wells as they are doing now for their own purposes

When it comes to motives, all you have is pure specualtion.

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Originally posted by Wurm When it comes to motives, all you have is pure specualtion.

but isnt saintly George Bush running on speculation as well?? u support him tho, why would i be wrong then??

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Originally posted by dEsidEL George W. Bush: Mr. Saddam Hussein, by mandate of the District of Columbia Precrime Division, I'm placing you under arrest for the future proliferation of WMD to terrorists and their subsequent murder of US citizens that was to take place today, April 22 at 0800 hours and four minutes. John Anderton: Why'd you catch that? Danny Witwer: Because it was going to fall. John Anderton: You sure? Danny Witwer: Yeah. John Anderton: But it didn't. Because you caught it. The fact that you stopped it from falling doesn't mean it wasn't going to fall. hrmmz.. the concept of pre-emption is funny sometimes ..

yea have to get teh minority report to prove teh facts now huh??


k

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Originally posted by DJ El Kay Dee but isnt saintly George Bush running on speculation as well?? u support him tho, why would i be wrong then??

America is neither right, nor wrong all of the time.



Eventually, after saying 'or else' for so long, something must be done. I am not judging my support for elimination of a despot based on the company I may keep in calling for his ouster in the only realistic way to do so.

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Originally posted by dEsidEL just curious as to how long everyone here spends each day reading war threads and posting replies .. ? almost every msg board i post on has war threads rite now regardless of the websites' subject area. i'm just finding it almost impossible to keep up now without wasting away my whole day which i don't find to be quite appealing and quite sad if i could add..

I spent forever reading these posts when the thread started. But now its a five min skim of info. I don't even bother reading some of the poeples posts. They've just keep writing the same thing and nothin intresting. Usually only new posts. Just to see what new ideas are coming in regarding this war. Always a good thing to see a fresh insight into things.

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Originally posted by Wurm America is neither right, nor wrong all of the time. Eventually, after saying 'or else' for so long, something must be done. I am not judging my support for elimination of a despot based on the company I may keep in calling for his ouster in the only realistic way to do so.

so u mean war which is barbaric, and opposed by over 150 nations accross the globe and supported only by 2 other(UK and Aus) is realistic???

so basically therest of the world is just unrealistic and wrong huh??

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