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Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 GOOD DEEDS WILL NOT GET YOU INTO HEAVEN. If that were the case,then why did Jesus even die on the cross? eh?

Because in that century the world was full of sin and they were awaiting someone to come and save them.
why do you think he died on the cross? it was to wash away the original sin as well as any other sins people had committed.

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Originally posted by albertoR Because in that century the world was full of sin and they were awaiting someone to come and save them. why do you think he died on the cross? it was to wash away the original sin as well as any other sins people had committed.

He died on the cross so that we could be reunited with God.
He's done it for us, we don't have to do good deeds to get to heaven,because Jesus has already died for us.

Nellie, could you answer my question from page 20 please? You seem to have skimmed over it.

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Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 He died on the cross so that we could be reunited with God. He's done it for us, we don't have to do good deeds to get to heaven,because Jesus has already died for us.

oh no good deeds anymore? that makes no sense. so were all automatically welcomed to heaven just because he died?
Jesus died because of the mortal or original sin (adam and eve's sin) that is all.
Also, how do you expect someone who is born in India, or China, or Tibet to accept Jesus if his parents are Hinduist or Buddhist? They were never introduced to the religion so they couldn't reject it. In this case, would God still send them to hell? I think you should revaluate what you are saying, its completely illogical.

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Originally posted by albertoR oh no good deeds anymore? that makes no sense. so were all automatically welcomed to heaven just because he died? Jesus died because of the mortal or original sin (adam and eve's sin) that is all. Also, how do you expect someone who is born in India, or China, or Tibet to accept Jesus if his parents are Hinduist or Buddhist? They were never introduced to the religion so they couldn't reject it. In this case, would God still send them to hell? I think you should revaluate what you are saying, its completely illogical.

No,I have explained this a billion times. You aren't listening to me,obviously.

He died on the cross so that we DON'T HAVE TO go to hell. The choice is up to us, One again If we accept him as our Lord and Savior and repent for our sins and give our life to him. THEN we are permitted into heaven. But, if we reject Jesus, then you aren't permitted into heaven. Crystal clear? It should be by now.

It's not illogical, Only God knows our hearts. Now,there is an age of accountablility,and I don't believe God will send someone to hell if they have never heard about Him.But,that's almost totally impossible now, because everyone in this world now can be told about God.

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 A very good example. So, Nellie, what do you think of people who do horrible acts, but suffer from schizophrenia and genuinely do believe they are doing it for Jesus? They have accepted Jesus in their hearts, they only misinterpreted the meaning. Should they go to heaven?

(answering your question,now that I found it. Atleast I think this is the question you are refering to.)

Listen carefully. If you read in God's word, The Bible. You will know what's right,and what's wrong. Pure and simple. A lot of people can say "Jesus told me to " but that doesn't mean He did. You and I both know this.

Once again,Only God knows a persons heart.

This thread is irrefutable proof that some children should never be allowed on the Internet. Dear lord, I wish IP addresses were publicly displayed so someone could smurf her connection.

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Originally posted by DigiNut This thread is irrefutable proof that some children should never be allowed on the Internet. Dear lord, I wish IP addresses were publicly displayed so someone could smurf her connection.

Ok, I've had about enough of your immaturity. I have every right to be here to debate,I'm just answering their question. As I've been told " Either put up or shut up ".

All I've seen you do in this topic is complain, This forum isn't for complaining. This is about debating,and that's exactly what we're doing.

I'm not a child, You can think that bull all you want. But, atleast I think with my brain rather than sit on it.

You arn't debating Nellie

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Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 Ok, I've had about enough of your immaturity. I have every right to be here to debate,I'm just answering their question. As I've been told " Either put up or shut up ". All I've seen you do in this topic is complain, This forum isn't for complaining. This is about debating,and that's exactly what we're doing. I'm not a child, You can think that bull all you want. But, atleast I think with my brain rather than sit on it.

Yes, and if I posted "fuck you" in response to every question that was posed to me, I'd be answering their questions too. The difference is, I actually have the critical thinking faculties required to answer the questions with at least a minimal degree of rationality and coherency.

Your posts are childish, emotionally charged, totally illogical and irrational. You sound like a 6 year old trying to explain why "my daddy is better than your daddy" (with the notable difference of using the word "God" instead of "daddy"). You answer every single question with the exact same garbage, and I find it unbelievable that people are actually still trying to argue rationally with you, because you have not presented a cogent argument in even ONE SINGLE POST. You don't debate or argue, you just contradict people and repeat the same platitudes over and over again.

I wouldn't try to win an argument with ad hominem - we're far beyond that, I'm merely in the state of wondering why everybody else hasn't given up yet. This debate goes nowhere - more and more great arguments presented by Occrider, MisterOpus, Renegade, Tito, arctic, a few by myself, and a few by others, and the same response from "Nessa" to all of them: "No,your wrong,God exists,it says so in the bible . "

Do the other people in this thread not realize that small children don't respond to logic?

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Originally posted by tathi You arn't debating Nellie

Yes, I am.
That and people are asking me questions,and I'm answering them.You have a problem with that? If you do,that's your problem not mine.
But, I'm sure those who are asking me the questions don't mind me answering.That's what matters.

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Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 He died on the cross so that we DON'T HAVE TO go to hell. The choice is up to us, One again If we accept him as our Lord and Savior and repent for our sins and give our life to him. THEN we are permitted into heaven. But, if we reject Jesus, then you aren't permitted into heaven. Crystal clear? It should be by now.

Ah I see. So prior to Jesus's death on the cross nobody had a choice and they all HAD to go to hell. Interesting.

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Do the other people in this thread not realize that small children don't respond to logic?

Yes but it's fun to point these things out.

$10 says nobody is going to touch my giant contradictions post.

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Originally posted by occrider $10 says nobody is going to touch my giant contradictions post.

Ok. I will take your bet.


MrS

Re: Cool Site

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Originally posted by occrider http://ffrf.org/lfif/?t=contra.txt Bible Contradictions PAUL SAID, "God is not the author of confusion," (I Corinthians 14:33), yet never has a book produced more confusion than the bible! There are hundreds of denominations and sects, all using the "inspired Scriptures" to prove their conflicting doctrines. Why do trained theologians differ? Why do educated translators disagree over Greek and Hebrew meanings? Why all the confusion? Shouldn't a document that was "divinely inspired" by an omniscient and omnipotent deity be as clear as possible? "If the trumpet give an uncertain sound," Paul wrote in I Corinthians 14:8, "who shall prepare himself to the battle? So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air." Exactly! Paul should have practiced what he preached. For almost two millennia, the bible has been producing a most "uncertain sound." The problem is not with human limitations, as some claim. The problem is the bible itself. People who are free of theological bias notice that the bible contains hundreds of discrepancies. Should it surprise us when such a literary and moral mish-mash, taken seriously, causes so much discord? Here is a brief sampling of biblical contradictions. Should we kill? Exodus 20:13 "Thou shalt not kill." Leviticus 24:17 "And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death." vs. Exodus 32:27 "Thus sayeth the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, . . . and slay every man his brother, . . . companion, . . . neighbor." I Samuel 6:19 " . . . and the people lamented because the Lord had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter." I Samuel 15:2,3,7,8 "Thus saith the Lord . . . Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. . . . And Saul smote the Amalekites . . . and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword." Numbers 15:36 "And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses." Hosea 13:16 "they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with children shall be ripped up." For a discussion of the defense that the Commandments prohibit only murder, see "Murder, He Wrote", chapter 27 (Losing Faith In Faith: From Preacher To Atheist).

Very Good Point!

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Should we tell lies? Exodus 20:16 "Thou shalt not bear false witness." Proverbs 12:22 "Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord." vs. I Kings 22:23 "The Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee." II Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie." Also, compare Joshua 2:4-6 with James 2:25.

You are a liar. But still, good point.

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Should we steal? Exodus 20:15 "Thou shalt not steal." Leviticus 19:13 "Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbor, neither rob him." vs. Exodus 3:22 "And ye shall spoil the Egyptians." Exodus 12:35-36 "And they spoiled [plundered, NRSV] the Egyptians." Luke 19:29-34 "[Jesus] sent two of his disciples, Saying, Go ye into the village . . . ye shall find a colt tied, whereon yet never man sat: loose him, and bring him hither. And if any man ask you, Why do ye loose him? thus shall ye say unto him, Because the Lord hath need of him. . . . And as they were loosing the colt, the owners thereof said unto them, Why loose ye the colt? And they said, The Lord hath need of him." I was taught as a child that when you take something without asking for it, that is stealing.

You Stole my lunch money

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Shall we keep the sabbath? Exodus 20:8 "Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy." Exodus 31:15 "Whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death." Numbers 15:32,36 "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. . . . And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses." vs. Isaiah 1:13 "The new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity." John 5:16 "And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day." Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy-day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days." Shall we make graven images? Exodus 20:4 "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven . . . earth . . . water." Leviticus 26:1 "Ye shall make ye no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone." Deuteronomy 27:15 "Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image." vs. Exodus 25:18 "And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them." I Kings 7:15,16,23,25 "For he [Solomon] cast two pillars of brass . . . and two chapiters of molten brass . . . And he made a molten sea . . . it stood upon twelve oxen . . . [and so on]" Are we saved through works? Ephesians 2:8,9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith . . . not of works." Romans 3:20,28 "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight." Galatians 2:16 "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ." vs. James 2:24 "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." Matthew 19:16-21 "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he [Jesus] said unto him . . . keep the commandments. . . . The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven." The common defense here is that "we are saved by faith and works." But Paul said "not of works." Should good works be seen? Matthew 5:16 "Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works." I Peter 2:12 "Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that . . . they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation." vs. Matthew 6:1-4 "Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them . . . that thine alms may be in secret." Matthew 23:3,5 "Do not ye after their [Pharisees'] works. . . . all their works they do for to be seen of men." Should we own slaves? Leviticus 25:45-46 "Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, . . . and they shall be your possession . . . they shall be your bondmen forever." Genesis 9:25 "And he [Noah] said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren." Exodus 21:2,7 "If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. . . . And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the manservants do." Joel 3:8 "And I will sell your sons and your daughters into the hand of the children of Judah, and they shall sell them to the Sabeans, to a people far off: for the Lord hath spoken it." Luke 12:47,48 [Jesus speaking] "And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes." Colossians 3:22 "Servants, obey in all things your masters." vs. Isaiah 58:6 "Undo the heavy burdens . . . let the oppressed go free, . . . break every yoke." Matthew 23:10 "Neither be ye called Masters: for one is your Master, even Christ." Pro-slavery bible verses were cited by many churches in the South during the Civil War, and were used by some theologians in the Dutch Reformed Church to justify apartheid in South Africa. There are more pro-slavery verses than cited here. Does God change his mind? Malachi 3:6 "For I am the Lord; I change not." Numbers 23:19 "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent." Ezekiel 24:14 "I the Lord have spoken it: it shall come to pass, and I will do it; I will not go back, neither will I spare, neither will I repent." James 1:17 " . . . the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning." vs. Exodus 32:14 "And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people." Genesis 6:6,7 "And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth . . . And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth . . . for it repenteth me that I have made him." Jonah 3:10 ". . . and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not." See also II Kings 20:1-7, Numbers 16:20-35, Numbers 16:44-50. See Genesis 18:23-33, where Abraham gets God to change his mind about the minimum number of righteous people in Sodom required to avoid destruction, bargaining down from fifty to ten. (An omniscient God must have known that he was playing with Abraham's hopes for mercy--he destroyed the city anyway.) Are we punished for our parents' sins? Exodus 20:5 "For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation." (Repeated in Deuteronomy 5:9) Exodus 34:6-7 " . . . The Lord God, merciful and gracious, . . . that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation." I Corinthians 15:22 "For as in Adam all die, . . ." vs. Ezekiel 18:20 "The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father." Deuteronomy 24:16 "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin." Is God good or evil? Psalm 145:9 "The Lord is good to all." Deuteronomy 32:4 "a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he." vs. Isaiah 45:7 "I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things." See "Out of Context" for more on Isaiah 45:7. Lamentations 3:38 "Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?" Jeremiah 18:11 "Thus saith the Lord; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you." Ezekiel 20:25,26 "I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live. And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the Lord." Does God tempt people? James 1:13 "Let no man say . . . I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." vs. Genesis 22:1 "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham." Is God peaceable? Romans 15:33 "The God of peace." Isaiah 2:4 ". . . and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more." vs. Exodus 15:3 "The Lord is a man of war." Joel 3:9-10 "Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up: Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong." Was Jesus peaceable? John 14:27 "Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you." Acts 10:36 "The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ." Luke 2:14 " . . . on earth peace, good will toward men." vs. Matthew 10:34 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household." Luke 22:36 "Then said he unto them, . . . he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Was Jesus trustworthy? John 8:14 "Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true." vs. John 5:31 "If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true." "Record" and "witness" in the above verses are the same Greek word (martyria). Shall we call people names? Matthew 5:22 "Whosoever shall say Thou fool, shall be in danger of hellfire." [Jesus speaking] vs. Matthew 23:17 "Ye fools and blind." [Jesus speaking] Psalm 14:1 "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God." Has anyone seen God? John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time." Exodus 33:20 "Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live." John 6:46 "Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God [Jesus], he hath seen the Father." I John 4:12 "No man hath seen God at any time." vs. Genesis 32:30 "For I have seen God face to face." Exodus 33:11 "And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend." Isaiah 6:1 "In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple." Job 42:5 "I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee." How many Gods are there? Deuteronomy 6:4 "The Lord our God is one Lord." vs. Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image." Genesis 3:22 "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man has become as one of us, to know good and evil." I John 5:7 "And there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." It does no good to claim that "Let us" is the magisterial "we." Such usage implies inclusivity of all authorities under a king's leadership. Invoking the Trinity solves nothing because such an idea is more contradictory than the problem it attempts to solve. Are we all sinners? Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." Romans 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one." Psalm 14:3 "There is none that doeth good, no, not one." vs. Job 1:1 "There was a man . . . who name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright." Genesis 7:1 "And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation." Luke 1:6 "And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless." How old was Ahaziah? II Kings 8:26 "Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign." vs. II Chronicles 22:2 "Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign." Should we swear an oath? Numbers 30:2 "If a man vow a vow unto the Lord, or swear an oath . . . he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth." Genesis 21:22-24,31 " . . . swear unto me here by God that thou wilt not deal falsely with me . . . And Abraham said, I will swear. . . . Wherefore he called that place Beersheba ["well of the oath"]; because there they sware both of them." Hebrews 6:13-17 "For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself . . . for men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife. Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath." See also Genesis 22:15-19, Genesis 31:53, and Judges 11:30-39. vs. Matthew 5:34-37 "But I say unto you, swear not at all; neither by heaven . . . nor by the earth . . . . Neither shalt thou swear by thy head . . . . But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil." James 5:12 ". . . swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation." When was Jesus crucified? Mark 15:25 "And it was the third hour, and they crucified him." vs. John 19:14-15 "And about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! But they cried out . . . crucify him." It is an ad hoc defense to claim that there are two methods of reckoning time here. It has never been shown that this is the case. Shall we obey the law? I Peter 2:13 "Submit yourself to every ordinance of man . . . to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors." Matthew 22:21 "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's." See also Romans 13:1,7 and Titus 3:1. vs. Acts 5:29 "We ought to obey God rather then men." How many animals on the ark? Genesis 6:19 "And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark." Genesis 7:8-9 "Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah." Genesis 7:15 "And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life." vs. Genesis 7:2 "Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female." Were women and men created equal? Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." vs. Genesis 2:18,23 "And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. . . . And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man." Were trees created before humans? Genesis 1:12-31 "And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: . . . And the evening and the morning were the third day. . . . And God said, Let us make man in our image . . . And the evening and the morning were the sixth day." vs. Genesis 2:5-9 "And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. . . And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground . . . And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food." Did Michal have children? II Samuel 6:23 "Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death." vs. II Samuel 21:8 "But the king took the two sons of Rizpah . . . and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul." How many stalls did Solomon have? I Kings 4:26 "And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen." vs. II Chronicles 9:25 "And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen." Did Paul's men hear a voice? Acts 9:7 "And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man." vs. Acts 22:9 "And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me." (For more detail on this contradiction, with a linguistic analysis of the Greek words, see "Did Paul's Men Hear A Voice?" by Dan Barker, published in the The Skeptical Review, 1994 #1) Is God omnipotent? Jeremiah 32:27 "Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh: is there anything too hard for me? Matthew 19:26 "But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible." vs. Judges 1:19 "And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron." Does God live in light? I Timothy 6:15-16 " . . . the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach . . ." James 1:17 " . . . the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning." John 12:35 "Then Jesus saith unto them, . . . he that walketh in darkness knoweth not wither he goeth." Job 18:18 "He [the wicked] shall be driven from light into darkness, and chased out of the world." Daniel 2:22 "He [God] knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him." See also Psalm 143:3, II Corinthians 6:14, and Hebrews 12:18-22. vs. I Kings 8:12 "Then spake Solomon, The Lord said that he would dwell in the thick darkness." (Repeated in II Chronicles 6:1) II Samuel 22:12 "And he made darkness pavilions round about him, dark waters, and thick clouds of the skies." Psalm 18:11 "He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies." Psalm 97:1-2 "The Lord reigneth; let the earth rejoice . . . clouds and darkness are round about him." Does God accept human sacrifice? Deuteronomy 12:31 "Thou shalt not do so unto the Lord thy God: for every abomination to the Lord, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods." vs. Genesis 22:2 "And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of." Exodus 22:29 "For thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors; the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me." Judges 11:30-39 "And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the Lord, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hand, Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the Lord's, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering. So Jephthah passed over unto the children of Ammon . . . and the Lord delivered them into his hands. . . . And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances: . . . And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed." II Samuel 21:8-14 "But the king [David] took the two sons of Rizpah . . . and the five sons of Michal . . . and he delivered them into the hands of the Gibeonites, and they hanged them in the hill before the Lord: and they fell all seven together, and were put to death in the days of harvest . . . And after that God was intreated for the land." Hebrews 10:10-12 " . . . we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ . . . But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God." I Corinthians 5:7 " . . . For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us." Who was Joseph's father? Matthew 1:16 "And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus." vs. Luke 3:23 "And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli." Now edited for reading goodness

Those were all good points too.

MrS

(Ok where is my 10 dollars?)

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Originally posted by occrider Ah I see. So prior to Jesus's death on the cross nobody had a choice and they all HAD to go to hell. Interesting.

As far as I know, Yes. But, Jesus went to the gates of hell and took the keys. So,those people could be free.
But,Jesus died on the cross,so now we don't have to. I don't know about you,But, I think that's a pretty darn good gift.

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Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 As far as I know, Yes. But, Jesus went to the gates of hell and took the keys. So,those people could be free. But,Jesus died on the cross,so now we don't have to. I don't know about you,But, I think that's a pretty darn good gift.

Well you might want to let the editors of the bible know that they need to reedit new copy to get rid of more contradictions that I found:

2 Kings 2:11 And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Heb 11:6 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. (KJV)

Luke 16:19-31 19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. (KJV)

Heb 11:8-16 8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. 11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable. 13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city. (KJV)

Gen 5:21-24 21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah: 22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: 23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: 24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him. (KJV)


You and I should continue our work together. Eventually we can construct a new and improved bible xp that will be 99.99% contradiction free.

Re: Re: Cool Site

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Originally posted by MrSquirrel Very Good Point! You are a liar. But still, good point. You Stole my lunch money Those were all good points too. MrS (Ok where is my 10 dollars?)

I lied.

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Occrider You and I should continue our work together. Eventually we can construct a new and improved bible xp that will be 99.99% contradiction free.

it has already been created, it's called fight club

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Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 It's not illogical,

Oh yes it is.

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Only God knows our hearts.

So if he knows our hearts, and he knows that we were grown up in a different environment where there was no possible chance of being introduced to Jesus the... "wonderful" religion of Christianity (oh, btw, are you finally going to admit that it's a religion or are we going to have to post the definition again?), why is that person going to hell? Sounds mighty contradictory for this all forgiving God of yours. And once again, if someone believes in Krishna, they aren't going to give two shits if a Christian is going to tell them they are going to hell. This is why there are so many religions, everyone believes in something different.

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Now,there is an age of accountablility,and I don't believe God will send someone to hell if they have never heard about Him.

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Buddhists don't believe in God, therefore they haven't accepted Jesus into their heart. Again,that's the only way into heaven.

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if we reject Jesus, then you aren't permitted into heaven.

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those who don't make it right with God, more specifically by accepting Jesus, are the ones who will sin and do evil. Therefore, only the atheists and non-Christians should be the ones committing sin, because Jesus is not in their hearts, and they should be the only ones occupying our jails.

There are non-Christians who haven't heard of God, are they going to hell too? When are you Christian's going to get it in your head that your religion is not the all and mighty one? It's only been around 2004 years! There have been many others before Christians came along. Many other religions that are accepting of the fact that not everyone believes the same thing they do.

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But,that's almost totally impossible now, because everyone in this world now can be told about God.

Yes... A God. Doesn't mean it's your Christian God.

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Originally posted by occrider Well you might want to let the editors of the bible know that they need to reedit new copy to get rid of more contradictions that I found: 2 Kings 2:11 And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Elijah never died. Didn't you know that?



Luke 16:19-31 19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: [/quote]
Stopping you right here, Highlighting " Abraham's Bosom ".
Those who were with God, I believe went to Abraham's Bosom.

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Gen 5:21-24 21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah: 22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: 23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: 24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him. (KJV)

And the problem with this is.....?
Funny you should post this though, Last night I was reading it.

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You and I should continue our work together. Eventually we can construct a new and improved bible xp that will be 99.99% contradiction free.

Heh,no thanks. I'm not willing to have blessing taken from me,and curses added.

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Originally posted by anuneventrade [font=comic sans ms]Oh yes it is.

Let's not start that. It won't get us anywhere.

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So if he knows our hearts, and he knows that we were grown up in a different environment where there was no possible chance of being introduced to Jesus the... "wonderful" religion of Christianity (oh, btw, are you finally going to admit that it's a religion or are we going to have to post the definition again?), why is that person going to hell? Sounds mighty contradictory for this all forgiving God of yours. And once again, if someone believes in Krishna, they aren't going to give two shits if a Christian is going to tell them they are going to hell. This is why there are so many religions, everyone believes in something different.

Skipping this,going to reply to your other questions ( since it's the same down there.)

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There are non-Christians who haven't heard of God, are they going to hell too? When are you Christian's going to get it in your head that your religion is not the all and mighty one? It's only been around 2004 years! There have been many others before Christians came along. Many other religions that are accepting of the fact that not everyone believes the same thing they do.

Again, accountablity. If a person hasn't heard of God before,I seriously don't think they'll be sent to hell.

Not religion. But, God has always been,and always will be.

I know not everyone believes in the same thing I do,and that's fine because that's their choice. But,it's not right to attack anothers belief. Or, to mock anothers belief. I haven't come in here and started gnawing on someone saying that they can't be atheist, or that it's illogical,and I haven't called them ignorant. I don't call people childish,and I don't say they don't have a right to believe in what they want to.
Because, that's their choice, heck it's even given to them by God.
But,I'll tell you one thing. I'm not going to sit here and let people make fun of my beliefs,or tell me how it is when I know it's not that way.

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Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 Let's not start that. It won't get us anywhere.

Sure thing skipper! (no pun intended)

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Skipping this,going to reply to your other questions ( since it's the same down there.)

Not necessarily, but okay.

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Again, accountablity. If a person hasn't heard of God before,I seriously don't think they'll be sent to hell.

Once again, they may have heard of a God, but not yours. Are you trying to say all Hindu's/Buddhists/Jews/etc are going to hell simply because they don't believe in your God? Sounds overpowering to me. That's a lot of people going to hell. Once again, there have been many religions that have outlasted yours, and I highly doubt every person in history went to hell before Jesus came around.

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Not religion. But, God has always been,and always will be.

Yes, but in different religions. Sometimes God takes the form of a few Gods actually.

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I know not everyone believes in the same thing I do,

Just the same as not everyone believes what I do.

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and that's fine because that's their choice.

This is true. Go individualists!

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But,it's not right to attack anothers belief.

I do believe everyone is simply questioning your reasoning of how you come to certain conclusions, especially with the contradictions of your religion.

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Or, to mock anothers belief.

This is what TA's all about though.

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I haven't come in here and started gnawing on someone saying that they can't be atheist, or that it's illogical,and I haven't called them ignorant.

Simply put: Not many of us think of the bible as a reliable source.

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I don't call people childish,and I don't say they don't have a right to believe in what they want to.

Actually, I do think you called someone childish/immature (but that was rightly so )

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Because, that's their choice, heck it's even given to them by God.

Just like it's someone's choice to believe in something other than Jesus. Do you really think you're going to affect someone who's Hindu by telling them they aren't going to get into heaven and sit next to Jesus? Absolutely not. They have their own belief system, just as you have yours. The only thing that bothers me about you is that you repeatedly make your contradictory religion out to be superior to other religions that have lasted far longer than yours.

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But,I'll tell you one thing. I'm not going to sit here and let people make fun of my beliefs,or tell me how it is when I know it's not that way.

Good for you.

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Originally posted by MrSquirrel Very Good Point! You are a liar. But still, good point. You Stole my lunch money Those were all good points too. MrS (Ok where is my 10 dollars?)

This has got to be the SHITIEST PAGE ever. You cant use one line of the bible and oppose to another one with knowing the entire content and message of the verse. AND here is the ocmebacks to your so called "contradictions"

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Should we kill? Exodus 20:13 "Thou shalt not kill." Leviticus 24:17 "And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death." vs. Exodus 32:27 "Thus sayeth the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, . . . and slay every man his brother, . . . companion, . . . neighbor." I Samuel 6:19 " . . . and the people lamented because the Lord had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter." I Samuel 15:2,3,7,8 "Thus saith the Lord . . . Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. . . . And Saul smote the Amalekites . . . and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword."

First of all, judges and eliminates the seeds that do not follow his path or his commandments. Remember �He is the creator of the universe, the people and the world�
On I Samuel 15:2 The Amalekites attacked the Israelites after they crossed between the sea (moses opened the see in half with God�s helped). God defends his people, in this case the Israelites.

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Should we steal? Exodus 20:15 "Thou shalt not steal." Leviticus 19:13 "Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbor, neither rob him." vs. Exodus 3:22 "And ye shall spoil the Egyptians." Exodus 12:35-36 "And they spoiled [plundered, NRSV] the Egyptians." Luke 19:29-34 "[Jesus] sent two of his disciples, Saying, Go ye into the village . . . ye shall find a colt tied, whereon yet never man sat: loose him, and bring him hither. And if any man ask you, Why do ye loose him? thus shall ye say unto him, Because the Lord hath need of him. . . . And as they were loosing the colt, the owners thereof said unto them, Why loose ye the colt? And they said, The Lord hath need of him." I was taught as a child that when you take something without asking for it, that is stealing.

On Exodus 3:22, 12:35

The Israelites were slaves on Egypt and God commanded to the Israelites that they asked for silver and gold to the Egyptian civilians because they have worked without being payed for 400 years. Again, God protects his children.

On Luke 19:29-34

The Colt was borrowed if you keep reading the verse. The owners of the colt asked the disciples why were they untying the colt and they replied �The lords needs it� Obviously they didn�t steal it, the owners approved.

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Should we tell lies? Exodus 20:16 "Thou shalt not bear false witness." Proverbs 12:22 "Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord." vs. I Kings 22:23 "The Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee." II Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie." Also, compare Joshua 2:4-6 with James 2:25.

On I Kings 22:23
Read Kings 22:22 �How the Lord asked him?� �he replied (Satan) I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his profets� So it wasn�t God who lied, it was Satan who lied for God.

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Shall we keep the sabbath? Exodus 20:8 "Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy." Exodus 31:15 "Whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death." Numbers 15:32,36 "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. . . . And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses." vs. Isaiah 1:13 "The new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity." John 5:16 "And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day." Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy-day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days."

On John 5:16
Read John 5: 10 So the Jews said to the man who had been cured (a paralyzed man that was healed by Jesus on Sabbath) �It is the Sabbath: It is not lawful for you to carry your mat�
Ok so basically a paralyzed man was just healed by Jesus and can now walk, so he picks up his mat and starts walking, the Jews stop him and ask him why does he carry his mat if it�s the Sabbath day.

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Deuteronomy 6:4 "The Lord our God is one Lord." vs. Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image." Now out of all this contradictions, I believed this one was the most retarded. God said, let us make man IN OUR IMAGE. Does this make man a god? NO. II Kings 8:26 "Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign." vs. II Chronicles 22:2 "Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign."

How many writers were there? 60? Yeah I don�t think they were all in the same room writing it at the same time. Honest contradiction.

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When was Jesus crucified? Mark 15:25 "And it was the third hour, and they crucified him." vs. John 19:14-15 "And about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! But they cried out . . . crucify him." It is an ad hoc defense to claim that there are two methods of reckoning time here. It has never been shown that this is the case.

Against, same mistake as above. Different writers.

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Does God accept human sacrifice? Deuteronomy 12:31 "Thou shalt not do so unto the Lord thy God: for every abomination to the Lord, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods." vs. Genesis 22:2 "And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of."

On Genesis 22:2 Now if you read the whole story, Isaac was never sacrified. It was a test that God placed on Abraham to see were his loyalties lied. An angel stopped Abraham�s hands before he stabbed Isaac.


I don't have as much free time as the shmuck who wrote all these "contradictions" some dont even make sense. Again you can grab one line and oppose it to the other without reading the whole verse.

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Originally posted by albertoR This has got to be the SHITIEST PAGE ever. You cant use one line of the bible and oppose to another one with knowing the entire content and message of the verse. AND here is the ocmebacks to your so called "contradictions"

That was not my page....read back pal.

occrider, you officially owe me a drink next time I am in DC.

MrS

Re: Re: Re: Re: Cool Site

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Originally posted by MrSquirrel That was not my page....read back pal. occrider, you officially owe me a drink next time I am in DC. MrS

yeah i know the one that did though was craked.

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