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-- Formula 1 - season 2007
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^^ Agreed.

I think Bernie should try and score a race at Laguna Seca before he gives up on the US. It's really the only other worthy track. Mid-Ohio is great for SCCA clubman stuff and CHUMPCAR, and Watkins Glen is legendary but the facilities and safety measures are nowhere near what they would need to be. Watkins was doomed ever since Francois Cevert died there in a Tyrrell Cosworth in the early 70's.

The theory about win on Sunday sell on Monday doesn't really fly for me when it comes to F1. Touring cars - sure. F1 rocket ships, not so much. I think that the best way to get F1 to sell your road cars is like Renault does with their limited F1 edition RenaultSport Megane and Clio. GREAT little fucking cars - and excellent value for their performance. Toyota sells otherwise bland cars that just seem out of place against their F1 rig. I think they had a better go of it when they were into Rallying with the Celica's and later the Corolla WRC - until they got busted (again) for cheating and were kindly asked to leave the WRC.

The new tracks being built are all boring as fuck. Herman Tilke needs to be beaten until he can pen a design that has some thrills to it. Even still, you can't just design and build 50, 60, more years of racing history into some new track made in the desert. Places like Monaco, Monza, Spa will ALWAYS be driver favourites because they are such legendary and dangerour circuits. Not the sterile shit we get now.

Totally agree with you Paul

Renault is doing the best because its not a company like Ferrari which sells only SPORTS CAR

Toyota is going no where. Look at their performance and the amount they spend

If i have more of the older tracks being kicked off for a new boring tracks, i am going to stop following F1

Ferrari is a special case though. Enzo hated the fact that he had to build road cars in order to finance his Scuderria. If he could have, he would have only sold customer GT cars that were destined for racing duty, and not road going versions for the wealthy elite to toodle around town in. I respect that about him. He didn't want his road cars to be about the elite image, but he also knew it was a means to an end...just like joining forces with the Agnelli family (FIAT) so that they could help bankroll his F1 team. After his very nasty split with the Agnelli's way back in the 50's, nobody thought that the Commenditore would suck it up and get back together with them.

Still, Ferrari, like Porsche and BMW, has always made their race kit available to all customers so long as they can afford it (obviously). You can buy a Porsche GT3 RS, complete with a factory FIA roll cage (by Matter) and put road plates on it and drive it to and from work. Toyota? Please. TRD is pretty much body kits and gay stickers now. Sure, you can order their fun cams and other kit through certain dealers, but it's not the least bit advertised. It's almost like they don't want people to have fun with their cars anymore. Honda isn't quite as bad, but they really only have the Civic SI-R as their quick little sports car. Sure the NSX is still around, but they would be lucky to sell 2000 of them a year. The Acura sedans are decent, but they're far from BMW performance.

I dunno, I just don't get how they can make the expense of F1 seem worth it to their bottom line. Maybe it's a loss leader that they just do to be seen, not to be successful.

But yeah, speaking of dangerous classic tracks, I plan on doing a few laps of the old Nurburgring in my BMW 118d rental ride on the way to and from Nature 1 in 3 weeks. It promises to be quite the blast.

quote:

Originally posted by pmoisse ^^ Agreed. I think Bernie should try and score a race at Laguna Seca before he gives up on the US. It's really the only other worthy track. Mid-Ohio is great for SCCA clubman stuff and CHUMPCAR, and Watkins Glen is legendary but the facilities and safety measures are nowhere near what they would need to be. Watkins was doomed ever since Francois Cevert died there in a Tyrrell Cosworth in the early 70's.

Laguna would be great but I can't imagine F1 racing there unless they make the Corkscrew smoother (which would ruin it). And the track is too short.

quote:

The new tracks being built are all boring as fuck. Herman Tilke needs to be beaten until he can pen a design that has some thrills to it. Even still, you can't just design and build 50, 60, more years of racing history into some new track made in the desert. Places like Monaco, Monza, Spa will ALWAYS be driver favourites because they are such legendary and dangerour circuits. Not the sterile shit we get now.

It isn't Tilke's fault that F1 is moving to those places, he is actually doing a pretty decent job at planning circuits. Sepang and Istanbul might be on the middle of nowhere but are great tracks, Bahrain and the new Hockenheim aren't great but allow overtaking in these modern F1 cars like very few circuits do. The only really shit tracks he has done is Shanghai and the new section at the start on the Nurburgring.

Nowdays the FIA requirements for building F1-level circuits are pretty damn strict - elevation changes are limited to a point, run-offs need to be huge (and you'll notice drivers are complaining about the lack big run-offs even at the classic circuits, just look at what they did in that last corner at Barcelona), etc, etc. Tilke has to work within these restrictions.

Hey paul
you are very lucky that you can drive around the old Nurburgring

Really liked to read trhough your last post. Intersting piece of information

^^ True enough, though Bernie seems to ONLY commission Tilke for the new tracks, which don't often offer as much variety as maybe a fresh design perspective might.

I think the issue with track design being strict has more to do with the changing culture of F1 than with anything else. The drivers still want the classic turns at the classic tracks, but they also complain about these same corners being unsafe. I'm sorry guys, but fucking pick one. You know that top-tier motorsport is dangerous as hell, so grow a set and take Eau-Rouge flat out like you're paid to do. Driving one of these cars is a priviledge that has only come through years of effort from those drivers and constructors that came before them.

I know it's bravado, but that's what has made legends in the otherwise useless pursuit that is motorsport.

The drivers, instead of focussing on boring track design that consists of a flat track, where the only passing areas are under heavy braking after a long-ish straight, they should focus on the performance of the cars themselves in dirty air.

I watched the GP2 race from Silverstone last weekend and it was way more exciting that the F1 race that followed it. Awesome cut & thrust driving, passes in traffic around the outside of corners, really great stuff to watch. These cars were all running minimal wing angle as well. It's the aero-efficiency of these little Lola designs that make such a great package.

F1 needs to figure out how to make their cars work in traffic. Because this 300km/h funeral procession is really starting to bother me. If a car doesn't work well enough when it's within .3s of the car in front, you need to either wait for the car in front to:

a) make a mistake on their own
b) pit
c) you choose to sacrifice some increased tire wear by sliding your car around in the shit air while trying to actually make a damn pass.

No car really has the grunt to make up .3s on a straight unless you're talking at Monza or Sepang...then maybe the Ferrari might be able to chase down a McLaren or BMW after a lap or two.

Formula 1 needs to make it fun to watch again. And I think that the drivers need to suck it up or give up their ride for a young driver who wants to race for the thrill of racing. The cars need to be faster in traffic, and this can be achieved by using technology from LeMans prototypes, and F1 designs of the late 70's and 80's when they were allowed to make better use of the air under the car to create a vacuum that wasn't disturbed by dirty air from the car in front.

This is one of the greatest sequence of laps in recent F1 memory:



This was the race for second place!!! How often do you see guys running this hard, banging wheels at the end of a GP? These guys laughed at the race stewards when they gave them shit for dangerous driving.

I will always watch and follow F1, even though I'm a pretty harsh critic of it's current state.

Show me this kind of action again, and I will guarantee that I'll be on the edge of my seat with everyone else, shitting myself screaming at the TV like Murray Walker.

[/end rant]

Just because I was youtoobing racing brilliance, this lap is pure genius:



RIP Senna.

quote:

Originally posted by rikhav Okay agreed on what you said But then Ferraris sell most in USA Also it's a huge market for Toyota and Honda And by "proper" i mean is it was one of the few genuine racing tracks in f1. I am not in support of the new tracks coming up in ASIA. They dont provide that excitement from racing point of view. Yeah, maybe facility wise they maybe good but for how long? After few years Bernie would start complaining about those new tracks also Instead he should find some solution and help organisers of SILVERSTONE to improve it instead of just blackmailing them

You fail to realize that F1 is a business venture first. Bernie is the boss and it is his company. If US GP is not a profit making venture it will be dropped. The F1 administration is not interested in racing over "proper" tracks. Most fans don't appreciate the difference between "proper" and "ordinary" tracks. The F1 bosses will rather built tracks in Asia because it is hell of a lot more profitable business venture for both the F1 administration and the auto companies.

Now coming back to the US GP, I doubt whether the race has any impact on the sale of Ferraris in this country. The brand sells regardless of its performance on an F1 circuit. A typical american does not like F1 and does not watch F1 races. He is interested in NASCAR. None of the foreign auto makers were allowed to participate in NASCAR until 2004. So the american public is not interested in watching foreign companies and foreign drivers compete against each other. They don't want to see a technology race. They want a driver's race. pure and simple.

Toyota and Honda sell in US for entirely different reasons. They don't need to create a brand image based on racing cars. They fare much better because of their advantage in fuel economy, price and compactness over the US gas guzzlers. And since F1 has a limited impact in US anyways, I really don't see the race helping them boost their sale in this country.

quote:

Originally posted by Omega_M You fail to realize that F1 is a business venture first. Bernie is the boss and it is his company. If US GP is not a profit making venture it will be dropped. The F1 administration is not interested in racing over "proper" tracks. Most fans don't appreciate the difference between "proper" and "ordinary" tracks. The F1 bosses will rather built tracks in Asia because it is hell of a lot more profitable business venture for both the F1 administration and the auto companies. Now coming back to the US GP, I doubt whether the race has any impact on the sale of Ferraris in this country. The brand sells regardless of its performance on an F1 circuit. A typical american does not like F1 and does not watch F1 races. He is interested in NASCAR. None of the foreign auto makers were allowed to participate in NASCAR until 2004. So the american public is not interested in watching foreign companies and foreign drivers compete against each other. They don't want to see a technology race. They want a driver's race. pure and simple. Toyota and Honda sell in US for entirely different reasons. They don't need to create a brand image based on racing cars. They fare much better because of their advantage in fuel economy, price and compactness over the US gas guzzlers. And since F1 has a limited impact in US anyways, I really don't see the race helping them boost their sale in this country.

I totally agree with you on all matters except F1 being promoted in Asia. Maybe after some years pass by, only then we will come to know if its the right strategy to promote F1 in newly build race tracks in Asia or not

I don't know if this is real, but this made me laugh. Its a letter from Fernando Alonso to his cousin, explaining the whole Stepnygate. Anyways its towards the end of the letter:

quote:

Lewis Hamil-ton say to me "Lighten up, dawg! Stop bein' the manic depressive Spanish mo fo. The big guy'll deliver fo sho!" That's how he talks when the cameras are not near because he thinks it's cool to be a gansta rapper. But he knows nothing. Hasta luego, Your cousin, Fernando

http://planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3262_2501428,00.html

quote:

Originally posted by stren I don't know if this is real, but this made me laugh. Its a letter from Fernando Alonso to his cousin, explaining the whole Stepnygate. Anyways its towards the end of the letter: http://planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3262_2501428,00.html

Definately, this is not real.

Great race today! I love the Nurburgring. It's like Spa, there can be a dry track on one half of the track, and soaking wet on the other.

Great call by Spyker to bring Winkelhock in for full wets off of the parade lap. Too bad the race was red flagged 'cause that could've been very interesting indeed! I was watching the local Dutch broadcast and the announcers were laughing that a Spyker was actually leading a GP!

The bottom of that hairpin was a swimmingpool. Liuzzi almost took out the safety car, then almost hit the digger!

Did anyone else see Massa's little hissy-fit in the scale room after the race? Suck it up, pussy. That wasn't a rough pass at all. I'm certainly not Alonso's #1 fan, but come on, there wasn't anything wrong with that. Certainly not in the last laps either. Maybe on the 5th lap it might have been a bit touchy, but not when you're racing for the win at the end.

Races like these are why I watch every event. Even though the majority of the races of the last few years have been only moderately exciting, there's always a race like today to make things interesting.

i missed that part but from what i read it was alonso who was angry on massa coz he thought he drove into his left sidepod on purpose

But agree with you that it was one hell of a race and we want more like this

Looks like Alonso will be WDC again while he doesn't have the best car for 3 years in a row now. Imo the only way Hamilton will win the WDC is if he switches to Ferrari immediately or if Alonso makes stupid mistakes like in Canada

Hey paul
Massa said that he felt vibrations immediately after he came on the track after his last pit stop
Could you throw some light on it?
I mean was there any problem with the car or with the set of tyres he had put on?

As far as i know when a driver has flat spotted a tyre they get bad vibrations, but that could not be the case with Massa i guess

So much to discuss, amazing race. The pile up in the first corner after the rain was priceless, I was laughing my ass off. That assistance to Hamilton seemed unfair, so i'm glad he didn't get any points in the race.
I didn't see Kimi retire, cause we've had a massive storm here in Warsaw and the Tv that transmitted the race went completely blank for 20 mints or so, until it was 15 laps to go

quote:

Originally posted by pmoisse Did anyone else see Massa's little hissy-fit in the scale room after the race? Suck it up, pussy. That wasn't a rough pass at all. I'm certainly not Alonso's #1 fan, but come on, there wasn't anything wrong with that. Certainly not in the last laps either. Maybe on the 5th lap it might have been a bit touchy, but not when you're racing for the win at the end.

It was Alonso who started arguing, he said something like " you've learnt the bad ways from Schumacher" he accused him of running into him on purpose.

I'm glad Alonso won and closed the gap to Hamilton to 2 points.

Heidfeld tried to replace Schumi by ramming into Robert, which he refuses to take the blame for, he was also innocent in the Ralf incident. He'll never admit his fault, fucking pathetic excuse for a driver

Great job Mark Webber

Ahh, I stand corrected. I was watching the Dutch feed and the announcers were talking over the audio so I couldn't hear it.

I just thought it was a racing bump, nothing intentional on either part.

They're both whiney bitches then!

Rikhav, as for the vibration, it could have been something that he picked up on his 2nd set of tires but that offset some damage to the suspension (since this was a bumpy and unpredictable race). When the 3rd set gets put on, the now balanced wheel package doesn't sync with the existing bent bits, and causes the vibration.

More than likely, it was just a fluke out of balance wheel, even though that doesn't happen often. They were on the intermediates too, so he could have flat-spotted them quite easily. It doesn't take much to cause a vibration in a wheel/tire combo that's that light.

Stren, I agree that the assistance to Hamilton was unfair. My only thought was in regards to the timing of the red flags & his off. If he went off before the race was declared stopped, then the assistance should disqualify him. If he went off under red flag conditions, he's entitled to take the restart provided his car wasn't damaged (and I think he managed to keep it running the whole time too). Compare this to Liuzzi and the other 3 cars that stuffed it into the same gravel trap, and he was the only undamaged car, and the only one to keep it running....hence maybe the restart and no DQ.

He did impress with a few fastest laps though. I really thought he was going to make a run for it. I thought that they might take the gamble in the last little rain period and leave him out just to maybe try and score a couple points.

Hey Paul

Thank you for explaining about the vibrations..

About Hamilton, you mean to say his engine was running even when he was air lifted for a few seconds?

To keep the engine for so long is quiet remarkable. We see him doing that during qualifying for the last part but then its for hardly few mins

Now i just hope Kimi's luck changes for the rest of the season. That guy does so much hard work but then he or his driving style can't be blamed for hydraullic problem the car suffers

I can only assume he kept then engine running since these cars do not have on-board starters. The corner workers wouldn't have push-started him either (if that's even possible with a modern F1 car...).

Yeah, Kimi has had shit luck for the last few years. He seems to keep a pretty philosophical view of it though. his time will come.

quote:

Originally posted by rikhav About Hamilton, you mean to say his engine was running even when he was air lifted for a few seconds?

well he DID run after he was put on the ground, so it must've been. A driver is not able start an F1 car without assistance of the mechanics

quote:

Originally posted by stren well he DID run after he was put on the ground, so it must've been. A driver is not able start an F1 car without assistance of the mechanics

LOL, i know but i was just surprised that the engine was running for so long without overheating

low revs I presume

quote:

Originally posted by pmoisse Great race today! I love the Nurburgring. It's like Spa, there can be a dry track on one half of the track, and soaking wet on the other. Great call by Spyker to bring Winkelhock in for full wets off of the parade lap. Too bad the race was red flagged 'cause that could've been very interesting indeed! I was watching the local Dutch broadcast and the announcers were laughing that a Spyker was actually leading a GP! The bottom of that hairpin was a swimmingpool. Liuzzi almost took out the safety car, then almost hit the digger! Did anyone else see Massa's little hissy-fit in the scale room after the race? Suck it up, pussy. That wasn't a rough pass at all. I'm certainly not Alonso's #1 fan, but come on, there wasn't anything wrong with that. Certainly not in the last laps either. Maybe on the 5th lap it might have been a bit touchy, but not when you're racing for the win at the end. Races like these are why I watch every event. Even though the majority of the races of the last few years have been only moderately exciting, there's always a race like today to make things interesting.

ya in the interview they asked him and he seemed kinda pissed

alonso apologized like 4 times lol. anyhow VERY exiting race. sick move by alonso.. FORZA MCLAREN

rain = awesome

I was also lmao at the cars sliding off at the first corner, wouldn't really have been funny if Liuzzi took out the safety car tho

My my what an eventuful race! This is why F1 is the number 1 motorsport in the world and attracts the most audience across the globe. What was turning out to be a beautiful day for Ferrari ended up being a nightmare, Kimi's case was excusable as the car had issues but what was the reason for Massa's dropping pace in the last 10 laps or so??? What was going to be a good advantage for Ferrari had just dissapeared in a flash my my did i yell at Massa and the TV...overall theres still plenty to fight for and i hail all the drivers who made it to the finish line at the Nurburgring!

quote:

Originally posted by fcuk � My my what an eventuful race! This is why F1 is the number 1 motorsport in the world and attracts the most audience across the globe. What was turning out to be a beautiful day for Ferrari ended up being a nightmare, Kimi's case was excusable as the car had issues but what was the reason for Massa's dropping pace in the last 10 laps or so??? What was going to be a good advantage for Ferrari had just dissapeared in a flash my my did i yell at Massa and the TV...overall theres still plenty to fight for and i hail all the drivers who made it to the finish line at the Nurburgring!

There were vibrations in the wheel or so he said in the interview at the end. He could not possible catch up with fernando after the tyre change.

Best f1 race i've seen live so far. SO FRIGGING EXCITING.

I could understand why massa would be mad. I mean he just lost the lead in the final 5 laps,and to get a comment like that...I would be pissed too. And it really wasnt his fault he lost the race. Ferrari's car arent reliable; period.

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