TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Chill Out Room
-- God
Pages (25): « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 »

Re: Re: Re: God

quote:

Originally posted by Comrade Stalin Isn't that Public Relations 101?

In that regard, there are a whole slew of corporations whose PR posture is God-like.

quote:

Originally posted by Spam What's scary is that I don't think they actually are trolling. It sounds like the exact same garbage I was taught weekly for the first 22 years of my life.

Just goes to show, a sufficently good parody of religion cannot be distinguished from the real thing. The simple fact that we cant tell if the man is a troll or not, goes to show how fucked up religion is in the first place.

quote:

Originally posted by mr.bison Religious people live longer and with less diseases, and this is scientifically proven and verified. So it doesn't matter whether the individual believer has a "correct " picture of life after death, or a correct conception of "God" and it is also irrelevant whether there is no life after death. The reason why it is better to believe than not to believe, is that it provides a healthier and longer life. Then you can call it "placebo effect", fantasy or naivety or unsubstantiated "Claims of God" but the effect of living in faith, is demonstrated by plenty of sufficient reason, by scientific means.

I'd rather die young than live to a ripe old age as a gullible fuckwit.

This thread needs more Hitchslaps..

quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated ...gullible fuckwit.

And what would it take for you to think otherwise; that there is a God and that you're not a fool for believing in him/her/it/et al, even though there was no way for you to prove God's existence to others? It seems a great deal of atheists have a pejorative regard for people who don't see the world as they do. Like a lot of religious people who do the same, there is scant intellectual integrity in such propositions which are ironically reliant on a presumption of having said intellectual integrity.

I never stated a position of athiesm. I'm just opposed to the whole "big man in the sky who will smite you if you eat meat on Fridays" thing. I don't deny that a god could exist; only that mankind's fictional interpretation is ridiculous.

quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated I never stated a position of athiesm. I'm just opposed to the whole "big man in the sky who will smite you if you eat meat on Fridays" thing. I don't deny that a god could exist; only that mankind's fictional interpretation is ridiculous.

That makes sense and I agree, by and large, that man-kind has an abysmal track-record, where God is concerned.

quote:

Originally posted by mr.bison Religious people live longer and with less diseases, and this is scientifically proven and verified. So it doesn't matter whether the individual believer has a "correct " picture of life after death, or a correct conception of "God" and it is also irrelevant whether there is no life after death. The reason why it is better to believe than not to believe, is that it provides a healthier and longer life. Then you can call it "placebo effect", fantasy or naivety or unsubstantiated "Claims of God" but the effect of living in faith, is demonstrated by plenty of sufficient reason, by scientific means.

I could spend time trying to explain to you how completely absurd it is to choose faith by average life expectancy and how coexistence is not the same as correlation, but instead I'll just ask you a question:

If a study showed that Muslims lived longer than other people, would you convert to Islam?

If not, you've just revealed that you don't believe in your own argument.

Re: Re: God

quote:

Originally posted by J.L. Well, first of all, by no means I mean to convince anyone or argue someone into believing what I believe. As a Christian, this is simply what I believe. 1) God is all good and perfect Most people tend to look at good from a subjective viewpoint. Ie. "God is only good if He does specific things that I want." Our understanding of what is "good" simply lies from our moral lens from the way we view the world. We are all relative people, viewing things from our own perspective, but God is absolute and constant. 2) God is completely fair in His judgement God does not hold any obligation to us, to do anything, because we simply do not deserve it since we have sinned against who He is. If you are a good person, and someone deliberately hurts you, you have no obligation to help them. 3) God is completely unfair in His mercy and love. God chooses to whom He has mercy on and whom He doesn't. It doesn't matter if you are a "good" person, because in perspective we are all completely unworthy of God. It doesn't matter if you care for the sick and poor like Mother Theresa or Marylin Manson (to us they seem like 2 extremes) Now back to the question, why would God let the 17 year old boy die? Because He deserves it, and it doesn't matter how good of a person he was. However, He constantly shows mercy and love to many others as He chooses, because why? He is God, and He can do whatever He wants.

As Moongoose pointed out, the fact that it's virtually impossible to tell a parody of religion apart from religion itself is already a testament of how fucked up it is.

Furthermore, your statements are a testament of how a person's moral and logical principles can be twisted by religious beliefs. I don't really feel like writing a long explanation of why you're wrong, but here's a video that should make it quite clear:

Re: Re: God

quote:

Originally posted by J.L. Now back to the question, why would God let the 17 year old boy die? Because He deserves it, and it doesn't matter how good of a person he was.

Did the kittens deserve it?

Why do you stoic atheists continue to crusade around trying to make theists see the error of their ways? Woscar, Capitalizt?

If someone is too fucking thick to have worked out that religion is a furphy under their own steam, the chances are slim to none that they will be swayed by your well constructed, logical arguments.

In the same vein, I sometimes wonder what purpose Dawkins et al serve. While I enjoyed The God Delusion somewhat, I spent the whole duration of the novel wondering whom it might be of use to. Besides the small proportion of the population he mentions at the beginning--who don't realise it's okay to disbelieve--that is.

quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated

I've actually agreed with pretty much 100% of what you've said in this thread.

Congratulations, god, you win.

quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated Why do you stoic atheists continue to crusade around trying to make theists see the error of their ways? Woscar, Capitalizt?

There were a couple of religious people here, that are now not religious any more. Far be it for me to claim that their enlightenment was caused solčely by the numerous discussion in the COR and before that PDD, but i like to think that it helped a little. Perhaps by ticking that little grain of doubt in them that was always there, but was never acknowledged or confronted until they stumbled upon a post by one of tranceaddicts great minds.

quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated Why do you stoic atheists continue to crusade around trying to make theists see the error of their ways? Woscar, Capitalizt?

It isn't necessarily for those we are actually debating, but for the uncounted people on the sidelines who are watching the various exchanges. If it wasn't for debates on the internet and videos posted online that argued against my position, I'd still be a bible thumper. It was only through observing just how weak theistic arguments were and how little evidence there was that I realized it was irrational and that I had been missing out on so much amazing information due to the confines of a dogmatic upbringing. Education really is the antidote. If you'd rather not bother discussing religion, that's fine..but I'd prefer to live in a world where more people embraced reality on reality's terms and stopped clinging to false and harmful superstitions.

quote:

Originally posted by Moongoose There were a couple of religious people here, that are now not religious any more. Far be it for me to claim that their enlightenment was caused solčely by the numerous discussion in the COR and before that PDD, but i like to think that it helped a little. Perhaps by ticking that little grain of doubt in them that was always there, but was never acknowledged or confronted until they stumbled upon a post by one of tranceaddicts great minds.

quote:

Originally posted by Capitalizt It isn't necessarily for those we are actually debating, but for the uncounted people on the sidelines who are watching the various exchanges. If it wasn't for debates on the internet and videos posted online that argued against my position, I'd still be a bible thumper. It was only through observing just how weak theistic arguments were and how little evidence there was that I realized it was irrational. Education is the antidote. If you'd rather not bother discussing it, that's fine..but I'd prefer to live in a world where more people embraced reality on reality's terms and stopped clinging to false and harmful superstitions.

This, pretty much. Do you have any idea how many people go on their entire lives without having their beliefs seriously challenged at all? One of the stupidest things one can commit is to assume that one is talking to a complete idiot. And with all the scandals that religious institutions have a knack of getting into these days, the amount of fence-sitters that Dawkins describes is larger than you imagine.

Re: Re: Re: God

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Did the kittens deserve it?

Fucking hilarious! LMAO!!!!

Well, I stand corrected. Apologies for being so blunt about it.

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker And what would it take for you to think otherwise; that there is a God and that you're not a fool for believing in him/her/it/et al, even though there was no way for you to prove God's existence to others? It seems a great deal of atheists have a pejorative regard for people who don't see the world as they do. Like a lot of religious people who do the same, there is scant intellectual integrity in such propositions which are ironically reliant on a presumption of having said intellectual integrity.

There is nothing you could do to prove to me that any higher power than humans exists short of literally having that power exerted in some form of known to be impossible demonstration (like a giant hand reaching through the clouds and plucking someone up in front of me).

Since that will never happen, because there is no god, I chose to believe in what is proven, factual and coherent. Something that can be independently verified by repeated methods, not written in a book thousands of years ago.

Calling religious people gullible fuckwits is entirely valid, because they are.

There was a time when Relativity hadn't been proven either. Just because something hasn't been proven yet doesn't mean it never will. I'm not saying I believe in god, but to dismiss his/her/its existence just because you have no way of knowing for sure whether it exists or not is a bit rash. Find out for sure when you die and until then, stop being such a prick just because people believe different things than you.

quote:

Originally posted by Joss Weatherby There is nothing you could do to prove to me that any higher power than humans exists short of literally having that power exerted in some form of known to be impossible demonstration (like a giant hand reaching through the clouds and plucking someone up in front of me). Since that will never happen, because there is no god, I chose to believe in what is proven, factual and coherent. Something that can be independently verified by repeated methods, not written in a book thousands of years ago. Calling religious people gullible fuckwits is entirely valid, because they are.

Well, even if that happened, there'd be no way to prove that it did, so you're basically screwed from the word, go, on that one. Honestly, not very inventive, either.


I'm more likely to believe I'm schizophrenic, having seen that, than I am in the existence of God.

quote:

Originally posted by srussell0018 There was a time when Relativity hadn't been proven either. Just because something hasn't been proven yet doesn't mean it never will. I'm not saying I believe in god, but to dismiss his/her/its existence just because you have no way of knowing for sure whether it exists or not is a bit rash. Find out for sure when you die and until then, stop being such a prick just because people believe different things than you.

Do you believe it's "rash" of me to dismiss the existence of invisible pink unicorns or leprechauns living at the end of rainbows given the fact that there is no way of knowing for sure whether they exist or not?

We can do the test from one of those Old Testament books where the two guys stand side by side, each trying to call down fire on a sacrifice from their respective gods.

God fight!

quote:

Originally posted by srussell0018 There was a time when Relativity hadn't been proven either. Just because something hasn't been proven yet doesn't mean it never will. I'm not saying I believe in god, but to dismiss his/her/its existence just because you have no way of knowing for sure whether it exists or not is a bit rash. Find out for sure when you die and until then, stop being such a prick just because people believe different things than you.

But to claim something exists with out any proof is fucking foolish.

We didn't claim relativity existed before we could prove it existed, we said it might exist, its factual existence came about from discovery and research and verifiable, repeatable data.

You could say god MIGHT exist, but there is no way to prove it, at all. Give me a way to prove that a god or higher power exists. Try it.

You can't.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.