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-- Vinyls vs. CDs
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Kinda funny to see this thread still lives...

As I have said, there are arguements for and against both.

Truth be told, there are some cool things happening with CDJs. While the majority of my set is still vinyl based but I love messing around with loops and effects and feel that this is the way forward.

I think the die hard CD haters really should see the other side and have a go at working with it before totally writing it off.

When I bought my first CDJ1000 Mk2 I was surprised by the fact that I ended up burning a lot of my older tracks to CD. Simple reason being that I can still take my older selections with me and not take that much space.
I still like to try and give the crowd a vinyl experience but like to throw in a few creative surprises.

The master pitch function is great for being able to include tracks that are really good but too slow and just sound like the chip monks when speeded up.

Vinyl is still my number one passion but CD's are fast gaining my respect.

I still have an issue with Mp3s burnt to CD as I still see this as a big industry no no.

Cheers
Nem

I have been a CD DJ for about 3 years but i bought a 1210 5 weeks ago to try it out because many talks about the "real feeling". But I don't get the feeling every vinyl DJ talks about. I still like the CD a lot more, it feels like I have more control with CD's.

I don't have any opinion about the time that is remain on the track, don't like the pitch (feels like it's not so precise like a cd player, I must pitch bend a lot more in the mix), don't like the sound (feels like the sound isn't mellow like a cd, sounds bad when mixing from cd to vinyl)
Well, maybe the feeling will come but i have almost lost all my good expectation for vinyl...

Call me crazy, but its all what you want, and what you feel like the DJ said above.

People say this is a big debate its really not! If you think about it most people are going to either swing to what they feel. Most cases its CDs/MP3's, but in my case I did something strange...

I started DJ'ing in late summer this year with Traktor. (Traktor is very great product, at a great low price). After awhile when you start to get good at stuff, and i mean i practiced about 3-4 hours a day on Traktor. It gets kinda boring.

So Christmas i moved to vinyls, I must say why the hell would anyone want to go back to CDs/MP3's. I'll still do live shows with Traktor (sometimes). But mostly now i'm going to be spinnin the tables, because its fun, and you can do neat tricks.

Its mainly the persons decision, some people like CDs/MP3's, others like turntables.

But i have to say one thing, as long as i can Dance to it, and it sounds good, dosn't matter what the hell you use'in.

Also no matter what you use vinyl/cd your still a DJ, thats as long as you mix. If people are dancing to your music, or enjoying it, your a DJ.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Coleman If people are dancing to your music, or enjoying it, you're a DJ.

So true!

You don't even have to mix as long as you are getting the party going in the right direction.

The DJs job is to give people a good time - end of story.

Cheers
Nem

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 So true! You don't even have to mix as long as you are getting the party going in the right direction. The DJs job is to give people a good time - end of story. Cheers Nem

I wonder.... One can just as well do it with 2 sessions of winamp going at once then. Why bother with all the equipment? It's not as if 90% of the crowd knows what beat matching is, and/or gives a shit whether it happens or not, they just want to be happy.
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There was a post(can't find it) a while ago of someone saying that labels are going to go more for the cd option than vinyls, cause most people don't have turntables. I was wondering why they would do it?? Since most people that don't have turntables are non DJs, why would they want singles of EDM on cd, most non dj people I know like mixed albums, and albums are mixed by DJs, who buy vinyl... So why would labels go the CD route unless it's an album(that was most likely mixed using vinyl?)
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I am thinking if it isn't maybe possible to design a system that detects heat signature (and maybe brain wave patterns etc.) of a crowd to calculate the mood of the crowd, and mixes music to to inhance that mood, or something like that <--- just random thinking.
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3 things that have nothing to do with each other, with a probably out of place quote..... Oh well, such is life.
I like vinyl.

I personally like the feel of vynil better... Yes you do actually touch the vynils... when you take them out of the sleeve and put them on the decks... and you need to move them aroudn to find the right starting point and move them fowared or slow them down to keep them on time... :P that's for the (I just use the pitch guy)... You must be really fast with the pitch then because sometimes readjusting the pitch fader may not be enough to get it on time and I have to tap the record (kind of similar to the jog wheel on the CD decks)... at least for me.

but CDs are great too. you can carry them easier... I especially like the fact that you can burn the tracks you make yourself onto a CD and play them and burn tracks your friends made.

I could care less what format the DJ is playing as long as he is doing a good set. Altough, those DJs who just bring a laptop and mix with a PC DJ program at a party are just plain laughable... looks more like a computer geek than a DJ, but if he's playing a good set, I'll like it... I probably just wouldn't give him mad props as the cool DJ that he is... since I don't have much respect for the PC DJs, but if you use PCs in conjuction with your physical DJ system, I think that's cool.

I think it's respect enough that you're playing the person's tune regardless of what format. You're putting that artist out there. A lot of times a label will pay a DJ to play their song (or offer them a bunch of free promo copies) The DJ is the promotional guy. :P You know you'd like a track better if your favorite DJ played it.

If respect is all about money, then a lot of big DJs owe me respect. I haven't seen royalties from a lot of them. Honestly, I don't care. They're giving me respect by putting my tracks out there. That's good enough for me.

quote:

Originally posted by Gunyouken I am thinking if it isn't maybe possible to design a system that detects heat signature (and maybe brain wave patterns etc.) of a crowd to calculate the mood of the crowd, and mixes music to to inhance that mood, or something like that <--- just random thinking. -----------------------

Wouldn't that take away the challenge of DJing? There'd be no more competition... since a computer can read the crowd. Sounds scary... there could be that technology already out.

quote:

Originally posted by gerrycueto Wouldn't that take away the challenge of DJing? There'd be no more competition... since a computer can read the crowd. Sounds scary... there could be that technology already out.

Well since people are saying things like digital media is the way of the future (and it prob is) then chances are good that something like that would happen and the DJ will be gone. But mind you one would probably still need people to study what kind of music suits certain brain patterns and/or heat signatures etc. to inhance or keep a mood going. Cool shit! I wonder if I shouldn't make a study of this.

Cd vs. Vinyl

Alright, let me put this as diplomatically as I can. First off, for people who dont even DJ, i suppose you can post on this subject but really, if you don't know what your talking about (and I'm not saying that some of you don't) then don't. Second, for those of us DJ's out there, lets not forget what we're there to do. Entertain, and play great music. If two dudes want to stand on there heads and plug themselves into a mixer, one bucks like a chicken, one makes cow noises, and crossfade between the two, as long as it keeps the crowd happy/dancing, then who are we to really care how they do it? Just because one DJ uses vinyl, and one uses CD's, dosnt make them any less of a DJ. We come, we play, we keep the party goin, as long as we can do that, whichever discs we use, we've got it made...... Anywho, just thought I'd get that out of my system...someone is now probably going to get angry at me for what I've just said, but, such as life. Thats the lovely thing about the internet :P

I like your idea... :P let me plug in my dog and parrot and crossfade between the two

Can't wait to hear the results

quote:

Originally posted by Gunyouken I wonder.... One can just as well do it with 2 sessions of winamp going at once then. Why bother with all the equipment? It's not as if 90% of the crowd knows what beat matching is, and/or gives a shit whether it happens or not, they just want to be happy. ------------------------

Well I wasn't refering to your typical trance crowd.
Here in the UK, if you can't DJ, quite often you will have a crowd wanting to let you know about it rather quickly.

When I said you didn't have to beat match, I was refering more to parties and music in general as this topic isn't just refering to Trance.

If you are talking about Trance, then smooth mixing and good harmonic lifts are paramount.

In the UK, there is a considerable portion of the crowd that want to see a particular DJ because of his tune selection and skill.
That however is really a different thread and doesn't refer to vinyl vs CDs and both methods need skill and creativity.

Cheers
Nem

cds vinyl fuk all dat i use tapes i dont see the point of discussion tapes replace vinyl, cds replace tapes, mp3 replace cds... theres no better or worse its personal preference lets start an thread aout japanese and american cars instead

quote:

Originally posted by Chrill I have been a CD DJ for about 3 years but i bought a 1210 5 weeks ago to try it out because many talks about the "real feeling". But I don't get the feeling every vinyl DJ talks about. I still like the CD a lot more, it feels like I have more control with CD's. I don't have any opinion about the time that is remain on the track, don't like the pitch (feels like it's not so precise like a cd player, I must pitch bend a lot more in the mix), don't like the sound (feels like the sound isn't mellow like a cd, sounds bad when mixing from cd to vinyl) Well, maybe the feeling will come but i have almost lost all my good expectation for vinyl...

Your problems with going to vinyl come from the fact that your probably are unaware as to what you are looking at and touching and have at your finger tips for control. This is normal for any DJ starting out on vinyl. Period. What is scary is that most people who play CDs and mix with software still have no clue as to "what its all about" and when they jump to vinyl or came from vinyl in the first place - generally they suck - because they have no clue as to what the record is TELLING THEM about the music. You never get this from a CD or a file. However if you have worked with music sequencing softare (like Cubase VST 32 or SX or Logic) you will probably be able to figure out the relation there from a composition stand point vs. "time remaining on disc" << a completely useless factor in determining what to do when you need to mix in a new record.

Sad.

BTW, I will be raising some serious shite on this thread in the next few months KILLING DEAD digital mixing now and forever.

Yes, it can be done.

quote:

Originally posted by djlithium - generally they suck - because they have no clue as to what the record is TELLING THEM about the music. "time remaining on disc" << a completely useless factor in determining what to do when you need to mix in a new record.

I acutally was surprised when i started with vinyl because it was much easier than i had expect. I thought that I would suck but I didn't..

Today I have get a little more feeling but not as good as CD's, The remain time that you can see when you play cd's felt strange in the beginnig when vinyl don't have it cause when i played I hadn't any opinion about the remaining time, yes i know that it dosen't matter but anyway i'm used to it from cd's.
Now I almost know how fast a record end's.

Visually there is an indication on the record in the form of breaks in the bands. If you understand how that translates into the math behind the music in terms of bars, measures and time signature, time remaining is no longer a concern, it then becomes a simple matter of understanding that all music follows a conventional formula that will introduce and remove or reduce instruments as a track builds or breaks apart from begining to end. Therefore by using this knowledge you can physically look at the record being played and know where your cue points are for release of the record coming in next and where things need to be faded in based on beat, bar, phrase and measure count, not "time remaining" which is useless and incorrect. From there you can use what is visually represented on the record mixed in and determine what an appropriate plan of attack you should have in your head for mixing out - working with those instruments falling off and instruments coming in from record to record. The results are a more natural transition with out really have to "know" the tracks selected inside and out. Once you understand this stuff, you can essentially grab any two records out of say a mail order package you have had come to your door just before you leave to go play at a club and pull them out and mix them more or less with ease (providing they are in the pitch range that feels appropriate going from one to the other in terms of tempo - and no key shifting doesn't really fix this problem) simply by looking at them!

Amazing stuff.

Brutally obvious but many people including a lot of "pro djs" are clueless to this fact. Also many people who teach others how to play are clueless about this technique and why you should use it from a musical stand point (the process essentially being billed over the years as phrase mixing) right from the get go. It helps to ensure a proper understanding of first beat (not release off kick) cueing and that translates into faster and better beat matching skill development - leaving DJs to pay further attention to appropriate EQing technique, crowd interaction, fader control etc. All around a good thing.

After a while as you have discovered from what you have described above, you "just come to know how much time is left" - this is correct, you will essentially gain the skill to just time left but not in minutes and seconds really but "band distance/width to matching band distance/width" (usually ending up being an equal amount of bars which again gets back to the math of music) each of the records. Think of it as lego. If it doesn't smack you in the head with what I mean with that statement, hit my website end email me off of there and I will explain further.

The battle is now over. Lets all now thank and praise the dj gods.

nice idea but poorly implimented. Major flaws in that design, but at least someone is thinking.

Still we have to cover off the other end of it. Technology is one thing, filtering through the "noise" is another.

It's totally true that the whole "visual" aspect of the medium is certainly a downside with cds compared to vinyl where you can see the track.

But the cdj1000 do have the wave display form ..... granted it's worthless compared to the "visual" of a vinyl but it's still a step into playing out somewhat properly with cd.

quote:

Originally posted by ionized If anything, CDs are harder to mix on. You can't see the buildups of the track like you can in Vinyl so you need to know the track better. The pitch shifters are less tactile that touching the edge of the platter or twisting the spindle like you do on Vinyl, hence take more getting used to. Plus if you want to take advantge or loops, samples and reverse play it means you can take your techniques to a much higher level which in turn makes mixing that much harder. Saying someone lacks the 'skills' because they mix on CDs is just showing your complete ignorance of new technology. Infact I feel sorry for you, since your obviously going to be left behind when more forward thinking DJs embrace the digital format. Fair enough, if its all about collecting hard to find tracks for you, then Vinyl certainly has it. Your not going to find that kind of nostalgia in the digital realm. But if you mix because you love expressing yourself and creating technical mixes that push forward the genre, then baby... CDs have got it!

I had a post like this written up but I just wanted to make sure that if someone else said it first then he should get the credit.

Exactly what he said. I use both. CDs don't have that "feel" (tactile feel) that vinyl has but they are so much more powerful when you want to get creative.

Saying that CD's are easier or harder to mix on is absolute horse shit. (Pardon the expression)
It's just a question of what you are used to and which one you start with.
You may have to know the track but you should know that with vinyl too and besides the Pioneer has a wave display which may not be perfect but is more than enough to tell you what you need to know.

djlithium says it very well, and to be honest you should know these things as a DJ.

Cheers
Nem

The only reason I'm considering migrating to Cds is because I spin psytrance and dark trance. Psytrance is almost impossible to find on vinyl. 99.5% of all new releases are being released on CD.

LIE~!!!

You are obviously looking on the wrong end of the planet for your Psytrance. Try hongkong. Not London.

well, in GOA all the psytrance is on cd..

Dj Lithium, if you know where to get psytrance on vinyl online, please share. I go onto psyshop and saiko, the two biggest online psy trance vendors. The vast majority is on CD only, especially new releases. Alot of the older classics are also being re-released on cd only.

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