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-- Keyed tunes for Harmonic mixers
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the best way i can describe when you hit a note on key is that it "resonates" in energy with the rest of the sound, and you're not necessarily looking for a match in pitch since octaves repeat themselves...

quote:

Originally posted by jeremy1984 What is the best way to learn to hear keys? I havent played any instruments so I can not tell in what key a song is.. I can of course hear when a mix is awful or "in key", but not in which key it is

To be able to hear keys of tracks you really need to play an instrument or be born with perfect pitch.
It takes a lot of practice and it is said that some people will never be able to do it (I don't beleive that personally)
But I think if you love music and you have the desire, pick up a guitar or keyboard and start learning. If you don't hear it already then this would be the best bet for you.

Cheers
Nem

I'm sorry for sounding like a complete noob but i don't understand any of this, even though I would like to. What does all of the " Fm(4A) G#m(1a) G#m(1a) Bm(10A) " mean and how do you know what notes are in each key? And also, how do you classify a certain song to a certain key? It would be great if someone could answer my question or direct me to a site with the answer. Again sorry for sounding so noobish.

There is a whole bunch of music theory behind this thread but don't be put off by that.

However, if you do indeed intend to start to key your own tracks you will require a certain amount of musical knowledge even if it is just how to play certain chords on keyboard or guitar.

You can however rely on the key detection of the other users in this thread but you wouldn't be able to get the key of a track that only you had for example.

We have explained it a few times in this thread but I can understand why it would be less than easy to find it at this stage in the game.

Bottom line is that you need just a tiny bit of musical knowledge to do this well.

The numbers refer to the Camelot method of placing tracks together and the letter with small 'm' etc. are just the regular terms in music.
Familiarise yourself with these concepts first and then we can start talking how to go from there.

Cheers
Nem

does anyone has the key for kuffdam & plant - Summer Dream ?

maybe this is a dumb question, but there are too many pages to figure out what's going on here. what is the importance of keying all these songs. remixing?

I dunno if this really works for you guys, but it sorta does for me... i dont have any real musical knowledge, but i sorta understand the concepts on keying n what goes with what...

i have 3/4 of my tracks keyed, and what i do to try find out ones that dont is sorta a way of cancelling certain keys out...

for example; if i mix in the unknown track with a Dm n it fits in... ill mix it in with both a Gm and an Am ... if the track fits in with the A i will try mix it in with keyed songs that go with A..vice versa, until i find a key that will match with all the other keys that it mixes in well with... its not 100% accurate, but it helps me to get an idea what i can and cant mix these songs with....

will htis method work ??? or am i wasting time, its worked for me with ATN - Miss a Day

quote:

Originally posted by deano1_ maybe this is a dumb question, but there are too many pages to figure out what's going on here. what is the importance of keying all these songs. remixing?

To help people who can't key tracks to mix harmonically.

~Cheers
Nem

quote:

Originally posted by Nikolas Vaughn I dunno if this really works for you guys, but it sorta does for me... i dont have any real musical knowledge, but i sorta understand the concepts on keying n what goes with what... i have 3/4 of my tracks keyed, and what i do to try find out ones that dont is sorta a way of cancelling certain keys out... for example; if i mix in the unknown track with a Dm n it fits in... ill mix it in with both a Gm and an Am ... if the track fits in with the A i will try mix it in with keyed songs that go with A..vice versa, until i find a key that will match with all the other keys that it mixes in well with... its not 100% accurate, but it helps me to get an idea what i can and cant mix these songs with.... will htis method work ??? or am i wasting time, its worked for me with ATN - Miss a Day

I guess that method would kinda work. If you use a guitar or a piano though it takes about 20-30 seconds to find the key and you can be sure its the right key.

Pitch Adjustment for One Semitone

There seems to be a bit of confusion regarding the true pitch adjustment for a change of one semitone (also known as a "half-step"). Some posts indicate it is 4.5% and others indicate it is 6%. In reality, it is just about 6%.

A shift of one full octave would be a 100% change, or doubling in frequency. This octave is divided into 12 equal intervals, each of which is one semitone. A shift of one semitone is the "twelfth root" of two, or the number that multiplied by itself 12 times will equal two. That number will be just under 1.06%, which for all practical purposes is a 6% shift upwards. Let's forget the 4.5% figure, and standardize on the 6% figure.

Hey Camelot,

So if I'm noticing differences in keys when I pitch up around 3.3% what does that imply?

rafale, you're noticing a semitone shift (or half of a half-step), which can sound sour if you're not careful... camelot is right in that it's just under 6% for a half-step (one note) shift, 5.94631% to be exact ;-)

Correction: A semitone IS a half-step, which is the interval between two adjacent keys on a standard keyboard. If you shift only 3%, then you are between two notes, and out of tune with everything. This smaller difference is sometimes called a hemitone.

Back in the days of analog music production (2" master tapes, etc.), a producer may have slightly pitched up the speed of an entire track to provide an "energy boost." The resulting track would therefore be out of tune with "in tune" tracks.

You may note that our database often includes remarks such as "@+2.5%." This indicates that the subject track will only be in tune with the specified key when the speed is increased by 2.5%. In a few cases, those unusual tracks that are midway between two keys may have a notation, for example, such as "B-Minor (10A) at +3%. B-Flat Minor (3A) at -3%."

lol thanks for the correction camelot ;-)

good point though, i wonder how many songs really are tuned up or down from the standard (where A is 440hz)... perhaps it explains my trouble in keying a few. that said, i'm going to try to make the midi keyboard in rapid evolution microtunable so you can find this out for sure (and notate this)...

Fifteen years ago perhaps 25% of new tracks required pitch adjustment to be in tune. Currently less than 5% require pitch adjustment, according to our research. This seems to correspond with the dominance of computerized production compared to analog production "back in the day."

On a similar topic, I think I stumbled onto a great Music Theory resource. How to Key has got to be in it some where in some form at least. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_theory

If its deemed worthy, maybe paste that linky onto the first page of this thread so some one reading it for their first time can read up on how to key before getting lost in the thread. I was reading through and kept seeing people ask about it. I cant blame them for not wanting to dig through all the pages for the answers.

The article is A LOT to take in all at once if you are new to music theory(which I am) but it is available to read, in all its glory, for the dedicated and determined DJs

quote:

Originally posted by qualia rafale, you're noticing a semitone shift (or half of a half-step), which can sound sour if you're not careful... camelot is right in that it's just under 6% for a half-step (one note) shift, 5.94631% to be exact ;-)

Okay so with respect to the correction made by camelot_sound on your (presumably typo) error,
what i'm noticing at a 3.3% pitch change(+/-) of a given tune is a semitone change e.g. F-->F# or E-->F or B-->C or A-->A# (or vice versa for each).

And what camelot_sound explains happens at a 6% pitch adjustment (+/-) is for e.g. F-->G or E-->F# or B-->C# or A-->B (or vice versa for each).

Do correct me if my understanding is flawed,
cheerSss

rafale, to correct you a 6% pitch adjustment is one semitone ... i.e. from E->F, or F->F# ... a 3% is half way between two notes :-)

Ok I've been watching this thread go on and on...It's simply amazing!
Thnx to all the people who posted here cuz this is reeeeaaaaalllllyyyyy helpful.
Just one question tho, what's the website again for searching for tracks' keys?And is it up to date with all the new tracks and their keys?
Thnx again people! This means alot

quote:

Originally posted by qualia rafale, to correct you a 6% pitch adjustment is one semitone ... i.e. from E->F, or F->F# ... a 3% is half way between two notes :-)

got it.

a 6% shift is total key change.

and it is quite audible if more than a 3.3% shift is involved coz its halfway there =)

thanks!

can anyone help me out with a few keys?

Ive got the following tunes would anyone please care to let me know if i have any right or wrong, thanks guys

polar state - global midnight (origianl mix) Dm
polar state - global midnight (martin roth mix) Dm
polar state - global midnight (morphogenic resonance mix) Dm

Nufrequency - 808 (why oh why)instrumental Em or E?
Nufrequency - 808 (why oh why)dub Em or E?

Carl B - all day (original mix) Dm
Carl B - radiance (original mix) Dm

lost witness - home (original mix) Cm, D#m?
lost witness - home (mike shiver catching sun mix) Cm , D# ?

factoria - twising free(shine through) G#m

taxi - distance (original mix) Dm

marc et claude - free (marc van linden rmx) Gm
marc et claude - free (original mix) Gm
marc et claude - free (mark norman rmx) Gm
marc et claude - free (club mix)Gm

Starsign - taurus / tauruscilis Cm? Fm? C?

Ava Mea - in the end f#m F#

jose amnesia - heaven drops Cm, D#

hammer & bennett - language Fm

mike foyle - space guitar Gm

nick thompson - spice fire A#m

any help would be great - thanks :-)

Krowster--i believe the most up to date site is [[ LINK REMOVED ]]
, with currently ~79,000 songs... right now you can search online, and i'm working to add the ability to edit/add songs online without downloading the software (although you should check it out if you haven't done so yet)

i'll just post this here too:

there used to be some sort of database about tunes that go well with others on the web somewhere, but i can't find it anymore. anyone got a link to it?


i'd need to get from
lyric & n atali - over emotion (smart system souvenir mix)
or
little wonder - exlipse (fictivision & c-quence remix)
to
airwave - when things go wrong (original)
as short and good sounding as possible, but i don't seem to be able to pull it off no matter what tunes i try with!


and what's the difference between
F#m and Fm?
other one's major and other one's minor or what? if so which is which?
(couldn't be bothered to read the whole thread, as it's so huge)

^^^ F#m is F-sharp major, Fm is F major. The difference is a F-sharp is a half step higher in pitch.

well now i read the whole topic and all i have to say is:





i will definitely be looking much more into this! thanks guys. dunno how i'll go about keying my own tracks as i have no musical background whatsoever and i suck as a dj in every aspect too, but one can always try and you gotta start somewhere.
this thread got me so excited that i feel like going mixing straight away, altho it's the middle of the night and my girlfriend is sleeping in our bedroom (where my dj gear is naturally)

maybe i can wait till tomorrow!

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