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-- The Official 2008-2009 NBA/Toronto Raptors Discussion Thread
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The Cavs have to take this game for their mental state. The Lakers easily won last game, and now they have lost badly to the Lakers and Orlando in their last meetings. They need to prove to them selves that they can beat the other hot teams, even if it is on their turf. If the Lakers soundly beat the Cavs again this time around, I will put my money on them to take the championship.

I haven't been this excited for the playoffs since 1997.

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Originally posted by Orko I will put my money on them to take the championship.

I wouldn't go that far yet but they would be my number 1 pick out of the top 5 teams that have a realistic chance at making it to the finals.

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Originally posted by Orko The Cavs have to take this game for their mental state. The Lakers easily won last game, and now they have lost badly to the Lakers and Orlando in their last meetings. They need to prove to them selves that they can beat the other hot teams, even if it is on their turf. If the Lakers soundly beat the Cavs again this time around, I will put my money on them to take the championship. I haven't been this excited for the playoffs since 1997.

Actually, I'm not. I'm excited for the final 2 rounds, because this year there's such disparity between the top-4 and the rest of the league. And of those 4, I only see 3 as potential champs. I see a lot of blowouts in the playoffs until the conference finals [except the Orlando-Cavs/Celts series]

if Bynum is gone for the year, I think the Lakers' chances are slim to win the East, nevermind a title. They really need to sign a legit C (and I bet Brad Miller is in a Lakers uniform by the deadline, but maybe going to the Mavs).

Cavs are still without Delonte...so they'll be much better come playoff time. Mo Williams has really changed the team for the better. I knew that was a great move when they picked him up.

Rumours are swirling that Amare will be dealt by Phoenix and some were suggesting Toronto and New York as options (Colangelo drafted him, D'Antoni coached him). Can't see Toronto working, with Bosh and Bargs cemented in the PF and C positions once Jermaine is gone...but who knows.

Sucks for Orlando that Jameer is done, but I really don't like that team anyway.

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Originally posted by MarkT if Bynum is gone for the year, I think the Lakers' chances are slim to win the East, nevermind a title. They really need to sign a legit C (and I bet Brad Miller is in a Lakers uniform by the deadline, but maybe going to the Mavs).

I still see the lake-show as a threat out west, actually, still my favorite to go to the final. Hey, they did it last year, and the clearly have the same offensive firepower.

But I agree with the rest of that post. Orlando is done, but even with Nelson I didn't have them even in the conference finals.

Whorrrrible loss last night...
Anyone watch Spurs/Celtics and Lakers/Cavs today?
The Lakers are doing some BIG things this season, even without Bynum

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Originally posted by Sorin.16v Whorrrrible loss last night... Anyone watch Spurs/Celtics and Lakers/Cavs today? The Lakers are doing some BIG things this season, even without Bynum

they did last year too. The only 'big' thing they've got left to do is win it all. And I don't see them doing that without bynum.

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Originally posted by Sorin.16v Whorrrrible loss last night... Anyone watch Spurs/Celtics and Lakers/Cavs today? The Lakers are doing some BIG things this season, even without Bynum

odom was a monster today

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Originally posted by infinity HiGH "Right now" is irrelevant since Nash will be an FA in 2010. Even so, if Nash and Calderon would be on the same team RIGHT NOW then Calderon should still be the starter. Nash is old. He can't handle starters minutes anymore.

I agree Nash is hell old now 35 I believe... He needs some to help him out he sure as hell does have any right now. The Rookie that was suppose to be awesome turned out to be flop so hes putting in a lot of minutes/game.

I know it's not raptors related, but UNC is playing Duke tonight at 9 on the score. It's the best rivalry in all sports, and the Tar Heels are my team. I encourage all to check it out.

Holy Shit!!! what a game tonight. I was at the game...and man, Ukic stepped up to the plate, as well as Bargnani.

Great game, even better hustle by the team, despite missing Bosh & Calderon.

ESPN is reporting

Raptors acquire Marion from HeatComment Email Print Share ESPN.com
The Toronto Raptors have agreed to send Jermaine O'Neal and Jamario Moon to the Miami Heat in exchange for Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks, league sources told ESPN The Magazine's Ric Bucher.

The deal is pending league approval, according to sources, and if approved, would be announced later Friday afternoon.

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced

OOooohhhh I like this trade Marion>JO, but I liked Jamario

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Originally posted by Invasionmix OOooohhhh I like this trade Marion>JO, but I liked Jamario

Jamarios are a dime a dozen......Marion won't be staying with the club...its just to free up cap space for next year.

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced Jamarios are a dime a dozen......Marion won't be staying with the club...its just to free up cap space for next year.

WOW I just saw the FA pool for next year!! That's gonna be really interesting!

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Originally posted by Stilez Holy Shit!!! what a game tonight. I was at the game...and man, Ukic stepped up to the plate, as well as Bargnani. Great game, even better hustle by the team, despite missing Bosh & Calderon.

Went to this game on Wednesday night, what a game!!!!

That is why I love basketball.

At first I wanted this trade but now I'm having second thoughts. First off Miami easily wins this trade. All we get out of this is cap space for the off season in a weak FA pool. Meanwhile Dwayne Wade (aka The Miami Heat) gets a legit big man down low which is just enough for him to take over in the playoffs. I think Miami is guaranteed a 3-6 seed now and barring any upsets or injuries a second round appearance.

Whereas Toronto has a true SF now, but it's pretty meaningless for this season. Cap-wise: I don't like the FA market this year (aside from Lamar Odom who more than likely will stay in LA imo).

Meh...

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Originally posted by Invasionmix OOooohhhh I like this trade Marion>JO, but I liked Jamario

WTF did you like about him?? The guy was crap and has no business playing on a pro team.

finally! solid move (for so many reasons already discussed earlier)

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Originally posted by infinity HiGH At first I wanted this trade but now I'm having second thoughts. First off Miami easily wins this trade. All we get out of this is cap space for the off season in a weak FA pool. Meanwhile Dwayne Wade (aka The Miami Heat) gets a legit big man down low which is just enough for him to take over in the playoffs. I think Miami is guaranteed a 3-6 seed now and barring any upsets or injuries a second round appearance. Whereas Toronto has a true SF now, but it's pretty meaningless for this season. Cap-wise: I don't like the FA market this year (aside from Lamar Odom who more than likely will stay in LA imo). Meh... WTF did you like about him?? The guy was crap and has no business playing on a pro team.

Miami still doesn't have the firepower to contend with boston, cleveland, or orlando, so adding JO really doesn't do much for them aside for securing home court in round 1. JO's knee is and will always be wonky, but JO was a 2-year rental for us, or was suppost to be, so I don't see any win-loss for us in the long-term anyway.

From a basketball standpoint, marion for o'neal is too little too late. Yeah, we got a wing, but with us so far down the standings and having to work a starter into a new system, it just can't be done in the time we've got left. We all see that, this season is now a write off.

What doesn't make sense to me is the shedding of all the salary before a weak FA market this year. Surely BC isn't gonna build around this year's crop, neither the draft or the FA market is strong enough to do that. So does this mean we're writing off next season too?

The trade allows them room to start tweaking the team in the 09 offseason and to show Bosh they are trying to build a winner and get him to resign.

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Originally posted by Sly_Guy Miami still doesn't have the firepower to contend with boston, cleveland, or orlando, so adding JO really doesn't do much for them aside for securing home court in round 1. JO's knee is and will always be wonky, but JO was a 2-year rental for us, or was suppost to be, so I don't see any win-loss for us in the long-term anyway. From a basketball standpoint, marion for o'neal is too little too late. Yeah, we got a wing, but with us so far down the standings and having to work a starter into a new system, it just can't be done in the time we've got left. We all see that, this season is now a write off. What doesn't make sense to me is the shedding of all the salary before a weak FA market this year. Surely BC isn't gonna build around this year's crop, neither the draft or the FA market is strong enough to do that. So does this mean we're writing off next season too?

I disagree, we can still make the playoffs, we are only four or five games out right now, we put together a good run and we could be in the hunt, our schedule isnt that bad the second half of the season, we just need to beat teams like Memphis. Wow that was such an ugly game.

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Originally posted by urban_legend I disagree, we can still make the playoffs, we are only four or five games out right now, we put together a good run and we could be in the hunt, our schedule isnt that bad the second half of the season, we just need to beat teams like Memphis. Wow that was such an ugly game.

Sweet! Making the playoffs only to get demolished (understatement) by the Cavaliers or Celtics.

The only chance the Raptors have is against Orlando who are without their star PG, but the chances of Toronto to match up against Orlando are slim to none.

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Originally posted by Sly_Guy Miami still doesn't have the firepower to contend with boston, cleveland, or orlando, so adding JO really doesn't do much for them aside for securing home court in round 1. JO's knee is and will always be wonky, but JO was a 2-year rental for us, or was suppost to be, so I don't see any win-loss for us in the long-term anyway.

Miami could easily contend with Orlando. I dunno about Boston or Cleveland but as it stands now, in my opinion, Miami is the clear favourite for #4. They're definitely going to pass Atlanta now with JO in the line up. And his knee is hardly wonky. They guy suffered a totally unrelated injury this year to his knee. He's a 100 times better fit in Miami than in Toronto so I wouldn't be surprised if he really starts dominating.

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From a basketball standpoint, marion for o'neal is too little too late. Yeah, we got a wing, but with us so far down the standings and having to work a starter into a new system, it just can't be done in the time we've got left. We all see that, this season is now a write off.

Agreed. We basically sent Rasho, TJ, some picks for Marion and Banks. At least Marion comes off the books this year; but Banks is still under contract for a few more years (and its a rip off. The guy puts up no numbers and is set to make millions each season for the next 2-3 years). I feel like Colangelo was pressured into this deal.

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What doesn't make sense to me is the shedding of all the salary before a weak FA market this year. Surely BC isn't gonna build around this year's crop, neither the draft or the FA market is strong enough to do that. So does this mean we're writing off next season too?

The list isn't really as bad as I thought, but I can't really think who from this list would be a good fit for us. Richard Hamilton? Marvin Williams?

Here's who we can potentially sign in the off season:

Tier One
Allen Iverson
Jason Kidd
Kobe Bryant - the Lakers guard owns an Early Termination Option that would allow him to void

Tier Two
Mike Bibby
Shawn Marion
Ron Artest
Rasheed Wallace
Andre Miller
Lamar Odom
Richard Hamilton - like Bryant, Hamilton own an ETO
Carlos Boozer - the Jazz forward has a player option
Mehmet Okur - ETO

Tier Three
Kyle Korver - ETO
Wally Szczerbiak
Drew Gooden
Anthony Parker
Chris Wilcox
Marvin Williams - restricted

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Originally posted by infinity HiGH Miami could easily contend with Orlando. I dunno about Boston or Cleveland but as it stands now, in my opinion, Miami is the clear favourite for #4. They're definitely going to pass Atlanta now with JO in the line up. And his knee is hardly wonky. They guy suffered a totally unrelated injury this year to his knee. He's a 100 times better fit in Miami than in Toronto so I wouldn't be surprised if he really starts dominating.

Too much size, too much shooting, too much experience, and too many weapons from all points on the floor. In the halfcourt set of the NBA playoffs, I choose the magic's roster over the young, athletic heat, even with JO. And as for JO's knee not being 'wonky', look at how flat his shot has been since coming over. How many time have you seen him really get off the floor? And 'unrelated injury' or not, his durability in his knees is suspect given how many he'd been out for us. 'Unrelated' can just as easily be overcompensating with the other leg simply because there's no confidence in the first. Yeah, he's a big body, and miami needs that, and a big body always has some value in the NBA, but he's not gonna take them over the top.

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The list isn't really as bad as I thought, but I can't really think who from this list would be a good fit for us. Richard Hamilton? Marvin Williams?

I'm not big on RIP cuz he's a jumpshooter coming to a jumpshot happy team. He's undersized for the 2, and yeah, he can keep a man in front of him, but we either a dominant wing defender, or a wing player who can flat out outscore his cover. RIP's neither.

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced The trade allows them room to start tweaking the team in the 09 offseason and to show Bosh they are trying to build a winner and get him to resign.

exactly.

and the reality is that Bosh may leave anyway.

a tweak in this offseason could also = a gauge to see if Bosh will re-sign.

whereas if they kept JO and dealt his expiring contract next season, Bosh still has little indication what improvements will be made and maybe he bolts too. Are the Raps going to lure in someone like Amare, Wade, Kobe? probably not. But if they can sign a legit SG/SF (assuming Marion is outta here at year end) to play with Jose, Bosh and Bargnani, then they go shopping for a tier 2 or 3 starter to round out the lineup.

lots of options, but this move definitely increases their flexibility and increases it sooner rather than later.

I'm a big fan of this trade.

I wish we'd just kept TJ and let him and Calderon split minutes, that was the #1 strength that the Raps had for the previous two years. How many times this season have we watched Calderon and Co put up a 10-20 point lead, just to watch Solomon and Ukic train-wreck and lose us the game? That's not to say Calderon has been perfect, but we had a nasty 1-2 punch between him and TJ Ford, and now we got Calderon and as backups we have a rookie who shows some promise in Ukic, and a Euro-leaguer who thinks he's an all-star in Solomon.

The JO trade was bad news to begin with, I'm glad Colangelo is wiping the slate clean, so to speak.

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