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-- 2 Planes Crashed Into The Twin Towers In Ny City!!!!!!
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You know, its obvously him, but I dont think hes the only one responsible, cuz you need a heck of alot of resources for this, and planing, I think Iraq and palestine might of had something to do with this too, but very little

quote:

Originally posted by InsomnEac once its proven that binladen is responsible (which i think he is), if afghanistan doesn't agree to hand him and his organization over to the us, then then they should take action. you cant just go around bombing any country you suspect did something wrong. i mean im not trying to say what happened wasn't horrendous, but you are jumpin the gun a bit and taking out anger on some of the wrong people. you think the 10 year old kids there, for example, are responsible too? there are some people there that are just as innocent as here. jus my opinion, peace

yeah I agree on that too, It would be so easy just to raid 'em and finished, but it doesn't work that way, this is a moment of extreme tension, so I guess we leave this somehow to diplomacy or else mayba a real war will start...now they must surely demonstrate that laden was the real mastermind here and then as I said justice will be done. (although wiping them out sounds really temping)

Obviously the attack against USA has been a great tragedy and those who are responsible should be punished for their horrific actions. However, it will be tricky to prove who these people/organizations are and if NATO starts bombing targets at random, we might start another global-scale war.

Things that shocked me:
1. some people celebrating on the streets and in the Middle East (arabs who thank Allah for that shit, omg)
2. the Iraq government 'approved' the strikes and said USA got what it deserved. That's unbelievable. As far as I know, USA has never attacked anyone without a good reason and certainly not killed innocent civilians on purpose.
3. DPLF (or what the heck it was, Palestinians anyway) first said that they were responsible but a bit later denied everything. I smell a rat.
4. the arab world kept on saying that it could be an american terrorist group behind this (yet there is evidence that the hijackers were arabs).

In attempt to solve things, I think that we should
1. boycott Iraq & Afganistan & others who could have something to do with the incident. Stop exporting supplies, food etc. to these countries, refuse to accept their citizens within the borders of USA, stop the trade between USA and these nations. Of course, this is not possible in full-scale. These countries should be notified that the boycott ends when they bring the terrorists responsible to justice (which, of course, will probably never happen).

2. there's a reward for Osama bin Laden's head. Raise that to some astronomic value like 100 million USD. I think fuckheads like that deserve to die so screw human rights in this case even if he wasn't responsible for this particular case. Some juicy price for other people involved might be in order.

Anyway, my point is that we can't attack unless we have a clue who we should punish for this. And even if we did, 'bombs away' would just plant more hatred. Nevertheless, I think the people responsible for this should be executed since actions like this cannot be tolerated under any circumstances.

I hope events like this never take place again.

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Originally posted by Kia Kaha Yep - he's an idiot - that's why he's gonna be fucking GREAT in a situation like this. Bill Clinton was too politically astute for his own good: he would have done all the political bullshit horse trading, got everyone else in the world's permission first before he went and sorted the situation out, and probably ended up applying some economic sanctions or some such crap.

i disagree with ya there d00d.. i think this could either make or break him. if he fucks this up he will never be liked again.. and the problem is in the US peoples eyes, they want the US and her allies to run around blowin the fuck out of afganistan etc.... this mite not b the answer straight away, and if bush realises this he's gunna have a hard time turnin u lot round... bill clinton opn the other hand, had sense. he would have stepped back an looked at the situation, then acted properly and accordingly.. like he did successfully in libya, have u seen gadaffi doin any terrorism recently? clinton would have been much better in this situation, for example i was watchin the news last nite, and bush was walking around the rubble of the bit of pentagon that got crashed into.. he made what started off like an impressive speech for him, then towaqrds the end, he didnt really know what he was saying,, cuz every uther word was errr, or ummm...

are the FBI blind? c'mon.. the sheer amount of strategic planning that went into this.. the years of training and the careful timing of the plan.. and they leave an ARABIAN flight manual ON THE BACK SEAT of a car... am i the only one that finds that a bit too suss?

Yeah Tu_face i did think it a bit odd that the manual was in the car. Were they really doing their studying on the way to the airport? Though i do have to admit if i was them i'd be trying to brush up all i could on the subject beforehand.

I'll wait and see on this one

Just wanted to let you know that one person has been arrested here in Germany that is believed to have something to do with the WTC attack.

They also stated that two of the plane hijackers were enrolled as students in Hamburg, Germany, and that they were from the united arabic emirates.

quote:

Originally posted by Kia Kaha Yep - he's an idiot - that's why he's gonna be fucking GREAT in a situation like this. Bill Clinton was too politically astute for his own good: he would have done all the political bullshit horse trading, got everyone else in the world's permission first before he went and sorted the situation out, and probably ended up applying some economic sanctions or some such crap.

ummm I hate to break it to you but they've been arresting peeps all over the world that were connected to this...some to be known supporters of Bin Laden...and Bush is asking for permission before doing this...he doesn't want to cause WWIII. We already asked Russia if we could use their air space to bomb afghanistan and they agreed and will let us. The U.K. is also behind us as well as Germany who aided us in arresting some in Hamburg. Political policies dictate that the President goes to countries to rally support and to see who is behind him and who isn't. We did this in the Gulf War too. We don't just go into war all alone. And Bush can't go in a nuke some peeps as you so eloquently put it earlier...only Congress can declare War..the president can't. And the president only has certain powers to do air strikes and such without petitioning congress to declare war. I think Bush is handling this very well. We are in the mess largely due to Clinton who stuck his nose in the war between Palestine and Israel...trying to help the peace process while always making it known we were on Israel's side. Who do you think Bin Laden got all this money from??? Palestine is sure to be a funder of this extrimist! So please learn something about the way the US is run...how our goverenment opperates...bc its people like you who screwed up the election this year with all these sillie notions about politics and such

and iran iraq the united arab emirates are all economically sanctioned already....i work in foreign exchange and those counrties are banned from us trading with them

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Originally posted by twilochik We don't just go into war all alone...

only cuz they darn't.. (jk)

i am waiting a while before i judge how bush is handling it.. i think he will either do really well or just collapse..

either way i still think he's a wanker.. just now he's a wanker with a point & that point will be backed by us 100%.. basically, whoever did this to the WTC has got the 18 member states of NATO to fuck with now..

we english folk may joke about hating u yankees.. but this one calls for us to close ranks

sorry i only just got the energy to read all this

quote:

Originally posted by mindbender Things that shocked me: 1. some people celebrating on the streets and in the Middle East (arabs who thank Allah for that shit, omg) 2. the Iraq government 'approved' the strikes and said USA got what it deserved. That's unbelievable. As far as I know, USA has never attacked anyone without a good reason and certainly not killed innocent civilians on purpose. 3. DPLF (or what the heck it was, Palestinians anyway) first said that they were responsible but a bit later denied everything. I smell a rat. 4. the arab world kept on saying that it could be an american terrorist group behind this (yet there is evidence that the hijackers were arabs).

1. these people were celebrating an attack on america.. the pictures of these people celebrating (which were taken 20 mins after the planes crashed) were before the world realised what a catastrophic disaster this is, and before the numbers of casualties and fatalities were made clear. these people u saw are ignorant people that probably know no better that what their governtments are telling them.
2. there a lot of reasons why a lot of middle eastern countries hate america.. some of which are valid points. but none of that justifies what happened on tuesday.
3. it wasnt actually the DPLF who said they had done it. it was someone who had been part of the DPLF trying to stir things up. half an hour after it was heard that they had said they had done it, official DPLF people came out and verified they had nothing to do with it.
4. don't u have arabs living in america? there is a strong possibility that this is an inside job or an outside job. my guess is both.

quote:

In attempt to solve things, I think that we should 1. boycott Iraq & Afganistan & others who could have something to do with the incident. Stop exporting supplies, food etc. to these countries, refuse to accept their citizens within the borders of USA, stop the trade between USA and these nations. Of course, this is not possible in full-scale. These countries should be notified that the boycott ends when they bring the terrorists responsible to justice (which, of course, will probably never happen).

the problem with this is that all the coutries that have got ur back on this situation rely on some of the countries in question for oil. oil prices are already high enough, and there are fears that if any force is used in the middle east then they will rise higher, and this could primarily cause world recession. the blow of american financial trades being down for 2 days was shock enough alone to throw our FTSE 100 index down over 100 points...

so basically im saying there are other things that this disaster will cause other than the sheer destruction and death that has already happened, and may possibly continue to happen. as unfortunate as it is, economically this world relies too heavily on the american economy. i heard it put best on the telly yesterday... "america sneezes and the rest of the world gets a cold"

i hope this gets resolved quickly and easily, while at the same time the perpetrators get whats coming to them. the problem with terrorists (as we britons have been finding out for well over 20 years) is that u shoot down one enemy and another just pops up in its place.

i didnt vote for bush or wanted himt o be in office......but i have very high faith for his abilities in this situtaions and he has dealt with this extremeley well....he wont collapse!

Yep, I agree with you tu_face about this suspect evidence. They've been planning this for years, I find it hard to believe that they'd be stupid enough to:

a) Leave Arabic flight manuals in the back of a car that they hired from the Boston airport in their own names - why would they need to hire a car from Boston airport when they were catching a plane at Boston airport in the first place?

b) Leave airline tickets and other damning evidence in an apartment in Hamburg when they had time to remove many of their other posessions before they legged it?

I don't think even the most half-arsed terrorist organisation - that had been planning for that long - would cock-up like this. Since the American government has already virtually labelled Osama Bin Laden responsible for the crime, all the terrorists needed to do was leave phony information linking them to Saudi Arabia (where bin laden is from, and indeed where the information has been linked to) and bin laden gets the blame, gets arrested, and the real criminals get off scot free.

Remember, they blamed the Oklahoma bombing on Bin Laden as well, and look at who that culprit turned out to be......

quote:

ummm I hate to break it to you but they've been arresting peeps all over the world that were connected to this...some to be known supporters of Bin Laden...and Bush is asking for permission before doing this...he doesn't want to cause WWIII. We already asked Russia if we could use their air space to bomb afghanistan and they agreed and will let us. The U.K. is also behind us as well as Germany who aided us in arresting some in Hamburg. Political policies dictate that the President goes to countries to rally support and to see who is behind him and who isn't. We did this in the Gulf War too. We don't just go into war all alone. And Bush can't go in a nuke some peeps as you so eloquently put it earlier...only Congress can declare War..the president can't. And the president only has certain powers to do air strikes and such without petitioning congress to declare war. I think Bush is handling this very well. We are in the mess largely due to Clinton who stuck his nose in the war between Palestine and Israel...trying to help the peace process while always making it known we were on Israel's side. Who do you think Bin Laden got all this money from??? Palestine is sure to be a funder of this extrimist! So please learn something about the way the US is run...how our goverenment opperates...bc its people like you who screwed up the election this year with all these sillie notions about politics and such

My apologies twilochik, I didn't mean to piss you off, all I meant to say was that while I don't like the Bush administration at all on the whole (this year the Republicans have implemented some shockingly bad policies on environment, third world aid and public health for a start), but I do think he is the right man to take a totally firm stance on this and throw all his weight into sorting out this terrorist issue once and for all. He tends to take hard line conservative moral stances, some of which I violently disagree with, like his anti-abortion policy, but I think the way he's talking about the WTC bombing is the right way, he's separated the politics from the straight up issue of good-vs-evil that we can all see, but that many politicians are afraid to talk about. And for that I applaud him wholeheartedly.

Hopefully the positive upshot from this tragedy will be a final agreement amongst world governments that there is no place on this planet for extreme religious and political redicals, that reckon they have to go and do things like this. I'd love to see a dedicated UN anti terrorism assault force with the ability to go anywhere and take terrorists out wherever they exist before they can do harm. The Islamic religion doesn't have a monopoly on this either, here in the UK we've had the IRA killing civilians for decades, just as disgusting, although obviously the WTC attack has taken it to a whole new level.

Heroiic actions of passengers from crashed plain in penn

Why the twin tower collapsed

Pilot sends live transmission

US 95% sure who did it....

There ya go...

Henkie you have got the nose for those things, This answers some questions. Thnx

quote:

Originally posted by Renegade Yep, I agree with you tu_face about this suspect evidence. They've been planning this for years, I find it hard to believe that they'd be stupid enough to: a) Leave Arabic flight manuals in the back of a car that they hired from the Boston airport in their own names - why would they need to hire a car from Boston airport when they were catching a plane at Boston airport in the first place? b) Leave airline tickets and other damning evidence in an apartment in Hamburg when they had time to remove many of their other posessions before they legged it? I don't think even the most half-arsed terrorist organisation - that had been planning for that long - would cock-up like this. Since the American government has already virtually labelled Osama Bin Laden responsible for the crime, all the terrorists needed to do was leave phony information linking them to Saudi Arabia (where bin laden is from, and indeed where the information has been linked to) and bin laden gets the blame, gets arrested, and the real criminals get off scot free. Remember, they blamed the Oklahoma bombing on Bin Laden as well, and look at who that culprit turned out to be......

i would have to disagree...american intellegence and govt wouldnt accuse someone directly unless they had significant prove on that person...and beleive me its not from some arabic manuals......US intellegance is extremely good with findiing things out..... they have prove to which we dont know yet....meaning from satilite and conversations they can interept from satilite and ect....... dont think the reason they blame bin ladin is cuz of some mauals or they people in the plane were arabic. For someone to plant bin ladin info so he gets the blame not him well thats extremely difficult to do ...

We didnt blame bin ladin for oklahoma at all....it was the media and opinions of the citizens who beleived it was him....the US goverement will not state a opinion on who did this unless they have absolute profe.....

My neighbors mother was a flight attendent on one of the planes that crashed into the towers.

I feel so bad for him. Alot of people have already been leaving flowers and other things in front of his house.

This is some really fucked up shit. I just hope we don't go to war

quote:

Originally posted by XxClayxX My neighbors mother was a flight attendent on one of the planes that crashed into the towers. I feel so bad for him. Alot of people have already been leaving flowers and other things in front of his house. This is some really fucked up shit. I just hope we don't go to war

ya its tragic dude, its gonna reach people all over the world

If afghanistan dont help with the finding of that Amahed or whatever terrorist.. we are on to war ..

I caught wind of this article from a Canadian Newspaper - a friend passed it on to me, i thought it would be a good read for all of those of you who think America "deserved" this, or that we always get involved for no reason....

A TRIBUTE TO THE UNITED STATES

America: The Good Neighbor.

Widespread but only partial news coverage was given
recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon
Sinclair, a Canadian television commentator. What follows is the
full text of his trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional
Record:
"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the
Americans as the most generous and possibly the least appreciated
people on all the earth. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent,
Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the
Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other
billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the
interest on its remaining debts to the United States.

When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956,
it was the Americans who propped it up, and their
reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets
of Paris. I was there. I saw it.

When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the
United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59
American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody
helped.

The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped
billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now
newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent,
warmongering Americans.

I'd like to see just one of those countries that
is gloating over the erosion of the United States
dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country
in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo
Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10?
If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the
International lines
except Russia fly American Planes?

Why does no other land on earth even consider putting
a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese
technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy,
and you get automobiles.

You talk about American technocracy, and you find
men on the moon -! not once, but several times -
and safely home again.

You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs
right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their
draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our
streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws,
are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.

When the railways of France, Germany and India
were breaking down through age, it was the Americans
who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and
the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an
old caboose. Both are still broke.

I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced
to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name
me even one time when someone else raced to the
Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside
help even during the San Francisco earthquake.

Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one
Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get
kicked around. They will come out of this thing with
their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb
their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present
troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those."

Stand proud, America!"

....remember that....

-ABT-

^^^ GOD BLESS AMERICA finally, someone appreciates us and our actions

WOW! after reading all the inputs from countries all over the world, i as an american say fuck this country... america has lost its "american dream"...the corperations now rule our lifes and the the goverment... money is the root of all evil... than why does money rule this country?... we made bin laden who he is by our dependence of oil, driving around in our big fuckin suvs... this was coming... why everyone is so surprised? were just lucky it wasnt a nuke... i'm sure that 99% of muslims are good people,we dont need to go around and bomb anybody, but americans want that,so bush and the gov will act apon it... for what?... why is it that more americans kill other americans from guns every year than the number that died tues?... americans live in a eggshell and the eggshell has been cracked... for the record, i'm a peace loving guy my heart gos out to all who died and their familys... you peeps and the site are the best,lets try to spread love and peace through our music just my 2 cents

quote:

Originally posted by tu_face we english folk may joke about hating u yankees.. but this one calls for us to close ranks

100+ English citizens (UK) were killed in this attack. This isn't just backing someone up, this is also defending/protecting people of your own country, whether the attack was in the UK or the US.

fuckin ragheads
now i gotta go to the middle esat and go bomb the shit outta there capital

Many comparing the lives lost during battle between the US and foriegn countries and those lost in NYC (Saying the US had this coming to them). It is like comparing apples to oranges. Not the lives lost themselves, but the reasons and intent behind the loss of those lives. General Norman Schwarzcoff (however you spell his name) did and interview. At the end of his interview he said this.

During the golf war, American soldier's went out of there way to avoid the killing of innocent civilians, even so much as to indanger there own lives to avoid the loss of the innocent. The bastards who did this, targeted and attacked innocent civilians and that is what's make us different from them."

Violence is inevitable, that's the real world. The loss of innocent lives during war is reality too. The *intent* to target and kill innocent people who have absolutely no part in the situation is not the real/our world. That is the world of terrorists and those who support them. *NOW* is the time for those people to be eradicated, and I hope President Bush uses whatever means necessary to accomplish that task (with the support/help from the Rest of the free world).

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