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-- oh my god
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quote:

Originally posted by kr00t0n Prove that he does... Gimme some concrete proof and I'd be considerably more likely to believe. Sorry if my logic prevents me from having faith of that nature, but it's not a case of me not choosing to believe in God, it's a case of me not being able to, because I simply don't. And I love it when people tell me I am going to Hell, regardless of how I live my life, simply because I don't believe, as that certainly makes for a very loving and forgiving god doesn't it? I remember when one of my bible-bashing housemates back in 2003 tried to force his ideals on me. He simply couldnt come up with viable counter-arguements for the points I was making. He gave me this BS story after I asked him: "There is a bushman living in the middle of the Saharan desert. He's never heard of religion or god and doesnt worship, but has learnt to live with and respect nature. Will he go to Hell when he dies for not believing in God?" "No, but if someone had shown him and preached to him and tried to teach him about religion and he still didn't believe, then he would." "So, if some person walks up to me and tells me that peanut butter is the almighty power that rules over all creation, I should believe him? It could sound just as far fetched to the bushman, but he is forced to believe under penalty of eternal damnation? Nice friendly god you got there." "........" "Exactly, now I am happy to respect your religious beliefs, if you'd just respect my lack thereof"

actually i believe that it addresses people similar to the bushman in the story in the bible...it basically says that those ignorant of god are still able to go to heaven, just a different level then believers or something...but once you're aware of god and you reject him that's when you go to hell...


not that any of that matters...its all bullshit anyway..

quote:

Originally posted by UWM Worst. Argument. Evar. That's just ludicrous. How can you possibly prescribe to something like that?

Care to elaborate?

You referring to him or me?

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic pleaze. muslimism is just a big plot to get ur guys to not eat prok! when u eat pancakes theres pork for us in the west. the laff is on u!

Jesus wept.. (No pun intended.) You are a joke.

quote:

Originally posted by Floorfiller ummmm....you didn't spell it right

just becuz i dont spent time using a dictionary doesnt mean im wrong! u have no life when u use dictionary.

quote:

Originally posted by NiteMer I'm still laughing at your idealogy. You haven't proven a thing. You're just throwing crazy theories. Btw, it's pyramids (not trying to be a dick, but you missed that one a bunch). Note - I'm not mad, and I'm not trying to be hostile, so don't misinterpret my responses. I just don't buy into your mumbojumbo.

deny prooves ha? when bushses spies sees this they will show it to him and he will laff at u

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike Jesus wept.. (No pun intended.) You are a joke.

flames proof nothing

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic just becuz i dont spent time using a dictionary doesnt mean im wrong! u have no life when u use dictionary.

well i'm just saying if you are going to try and hammer home a point by spacing out the word and use it as a tool to convince...it might be a little more successful and convince the rest of us you aren't a complete idiot if you spelled it correctly...

quote:

Originally posted by NiteMer We all concur to laugh at this one!

quote:

Originally posted by kr00t0n Prove that he does... Gimme some concrete proof and I'd be considerably more likely to believe. Sorry if my logic prevents me from having faith of that nature, but it's not a case of me not choosing to believe in God, it's a case of me not being able to, because I simply don't. And I love it when people tell me I am going to Hell, regardless of how I live my life, simply because I don't believe, as that certainly makes for a very loving and forgiving god doesn't it? I remember when one of my bible-bashing housemates back in 2003 tried to force his ideals on me. He simply couldnt come up with viable counter-arguements for the points I was making. He gave me this BS story after I asked him: "There is a bushman living in the middle of the Saharan desert. He's never heard of religion or god and doesnt worship, but has learnt to live with and respect nature. Will he go to Hell when he dies for not believing in God?" "No, but if someone had shown him and preached to him and tried to teach him about religion and he still didn't believe, then he would." "So, if some person walks up to me and tells me that peanut butter is the almighty power that rules over all creation, I should believe him? It could sound just as far fetched to the bushman, but he is forced to believe under penalty of eternal damnation? Nice friendly god you got there." "........" "Exactly, now I am happy to respect your religious beliefs, if you'd just respect my lack thereof"

Problem is that you've dealt with Christians trying to force their opinions on you. You have a right to choose yourself, and no one should push anything on you. The issue of someone who never hears the word is complicated though. If he never sinned, he would be okay, but that's highly unlikely. Problem is that people have an image of God standing up there and throwing people into hell, like he's pissed off at them or something. That's not it. Consider this analogy. You are on one side of a large chasm, on the other rests God. The Chasm is sin. God cannot coexist with sin, and hence we need a bridge (or way to be cleansed of our sin). That is why Jesus lived a perfect life to redeem us of our sins and be the bridge to God. I'm not telling you to believe this, but this is the essence of Christian faith, not some guy hurling people into hell.

quote:

Originally posted by Floorfiller actually i believe that it addresses people similar to the bushman in the story in the bible...it basically says that those ignorant of god are still able to go to heaven, just a different level then believers or something...but once you're aware of god and you reject him that's when you go to hell...

That's what I was getting at when I was talking to the dude.

Let's say you have some native africans or whatever that have lived for thousands of years with their own belief system.

Some vastly different coloured people rock up and tell them that they are wrong and they need to believe something completely different or they shall burn in hell.

They are expected to do so in a split second?

To them it would be like someone going up to a bunch of christians/muslims and telling them that they've been wrong all this time and that the true scenario is xyz123.

Not bloody likely.

quote:

Originally posted by kr00t0n Care to elaborate? You referring to him or me?

I'm referring to his belief that someone who didn't have knowledge of 'God' couldn't go to Hell but that once he had acquired this knowledge and chosen not to worship that he would.

Ri-God Damn-Diculous.

quote:

Originally posted by l�cid

How very apt.

Somone post the LOL/BRB pic of Jesus on the cross. That makes me laugh every time

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic deny prooves ha? when bushses spies sees this they will show it to him and he will laff at u

Du er en morsom en, ma jeg si. Det er greit at du tror det du tror pa, men jeg synes det er lattelig. Men jeg har ikke noe i mot deg for det.

you're too fast for me lucid



classic!

quote:

Originally posted by UWM I'm referring to his belief that someone who didn't have knowledge of 'God' couldn't go to Hell but that once he had acquired this knowledge and chosen not to worship that he would. Ri-God Damn-Diculous.

How so? Do you mean that sort of scenario ever arising isn't very plausable? Because I think however unlikely that happening might be, it's still an intesting point to take on board. After all how can you be punished in hell when you had absolutley no idea on how to have avoided it in the first place.

quote:

Originally posted by l�cid

Tickles me every time.

quote:

Originally posted by NiteMer Problem is that you've dealt with Christians trying to force their opinions on you. You have a right to choose yourself, and no one should push anything on you. The issue of someone who never hears the word is complicated though. If he never sinned, he would be okay, but that's highly unlikely. Problem is that people have an image of God standing up there and throwing people into hell, like he's pissed off at them or something. That's not it. Consider this analogy. You are on one side of a large chasm, on the other rests God. The Chasm is sin. God cannot coexist with sin, and hence we need a bridge (or way to be cleansed of our sin). That is why Jesus lived a perfect life to redeem us of our sins and be the bridge to God. I'm not telling you to believe this, but this is the essence of Christian faith, not some guy hurling people into hell.

And that essence is all well and good, but what I consider to be 'sins' I have formed myself.

Some consider doing drugs a sin, whereas I do not. I concur that it is wrong to kill a person or steal however.

Me having my own belief structure that doesnt fall within any categorical religion shouldn't make me bad in the eyes of those religions, soley for the fact I happen to be a fan of proof, not faith.

I've lead an amazing life so far, and I went to church when I was a kid, and as I grew up, even though I went to a catholic highschool, I decided on how I thought life works and how I planned to live it.

If God does exist, and I've never said he doesn't, just that being able to neither prove/disprove his existance makes him exist or not, he's certainly been very good to someone who isn't capable of believeing in him.

And for that fact, if he indeed does exist, he's considerably more laid-back and merciful than most people let on, which makes more sense in the long run.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike How so? Do you mean that sort of scenario ever arising isn't very plausable? Because I think however unlikely that happening might be, it's still an intesting point to take on board. After all how can you be punished in hell when you had absolutley no idea on how to have avoided it in the first place.

Rob's agreeing with that point of view silly

quote:

Originally posted by kr00t0n And that essence is all well and good, but what I consider to be 'sins' I have formed myself. Some consider doing drugs a sin, whereas I do not. I concur that it is wrong to kill a person or steal however. Me having my own belief structure that doesnt fall within any categorical religion shouldn't make me bad in the eyes of those religions, soley for the fact I happen to be a fan of proof, not faith. I've lead an amazing life so far, and I went to church when I was a kid, and as I grew up, even though I went to a catholic highschool, I decided on how I thought life works and how I planned to live it. If God does exist, and I've never said he doesn't, just that being able to neither prove/disprove his existance makes him exist or not, he's certainly been very good to someone who isn't capable of believeing in him. And for that fact, if he indeed does exist, he's considerably more laid-back and merciful than most people let on, which makes more sense in the long run.

You have to choose for yourself, and I wouldn't judge you for choosing differently from myself. We can disagree on this, yet get along and be friends. It's called tolerance, and it's pretty important. Note - I know you are this way, so I'm not implying anything different. Some people choose not to accept other people having different beliefs, but it doesn't help anyone.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike How so? Do you mean that sort of scenario ever arising isn't very plausable? Because I think however unlikely that happening might be, it's still an intesting point to take on board. After all how can you be punished in hell when you had absolutley no idea on how to have avoided it in the first place. Tickles me every time.

Exactly... I mean, would a truly benevolent God who created all life really doom a majority of his creation to an afterlife in hell simply because they were in the wrong place on earth?

God... I can't seem to leave this thread... must sleep...

do those of you that are religious in this thread think that the bible is a true story or a story created to be a representation of good moral behavior?

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike How so? Do you mean that sort of scenario ever arising isn't very plausable? Because I think however unlikely that happening might be, it's still an intesting point to take on board. After all how can you be punished in hell when you had absolutley no idea on how to have avoided it in the first place.

Well, referring back to kr00t0n's retort. Say I lived as an Amazonian tribesman my whole life and decided to go on a journey to discover what the rest of the world had to offer. During my journey I managed to come across a written manuscript outlining the principles of, let's call it 'Religion X.' I then come across a written manuscript outlining the founding principles of Christianity. It is at this point in time that I must choose one of these religions to believe and spread to my indigenous Amazonians. Since I have no frame of reference, I choose 'Religion X' and carry back to my people the knowledge and principles of this religion. Since I have learnt the principles of Christianity and have chosen not to take them on as my own and worship them, am I therefore damned to Hell because I have read about it?

quote:

Originally posted by kr00t0n Rob's agreeing with that point of view silly

Oh, my apologies... In that case disregard my post. I'm sure most of you all do anyway..

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