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-- HR 1207 : Federal Reserve Transparency Act 2009
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quote:

Originally posted by DOOMBOT Geeze, lighten up a little. I realise that a 15 hour work day can be stressful but you seem to be taking a lot of what has been said in this thread personally... ?

It's just a bit frustrating to try to take some of that "break time" to see the same thing repeated a few times on a a 40 post/page...by the same person, not quoted.

What do you want me to say? This thread was going OK and went off the deep end long ago. It's unfortunate that you have to dig through so much shit to find the few redeeming posts with valid points that come from both sides.

And I don't know why I'm taking it any more personal than anyone else? I'm hardly even posting.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Correction, they have to give all profits minus expenses back to the treasury. Get your facts straight.

That is exactly what I meant, "they" being the FED have to give back all of their earnings minus expenses to the US.

Did you forget how to fucking read?

Can someone answer the question on why the FED has not returned or even answered as to why they have not returned Trillions of dollars back to the US now would be a good time.

The FED owns half of the national debt, this equals roughly 1.5 Trillion dollars for the year at their average 5% interest rate. Add in their transaction fees and they easily made a profit of 2 Trillion dollars which the majority must be returned to the US minus their operating costs.

The US Treasury balance sheet shows they only returned 500 Billion as of 2008.

33 pages and counting.......stop dancing around the question already.

quote:

Why do you keep posting youtube videos when you know nobody watches them?

Sorry but 837,004 views means that a hell of a lot of people are watching them. And this number accounts for only one nationally aired video on this subject. This does not include the people who watched it live or the many hundreds of other live feeds that were aired and watched by the same kind of numbers.

The numbers are in the ten's of millions easily.


Thanks but no thanks for trying.

quote:

Originally posted by culorut Sorry but 837,004 views means that a hell of a lot of people are watching them. And this number accounts for only one nationally aired video on this subject. This does not include the people who watched it live or the many hundreds of other live feeds that were aired and watched by the same kind of numbers. The numbers are in the ten's of millions easily. Thanks but no thanks for trying.

all that means is there are around 830,000 morons and a few intelligent people who accidently stumbled to the link.

quote:

Originally posted by culorut Can someone answer the question on why the FED has not returned or even answered as to why they have not returned Trillions of dollars back to the US now would be a good time. The FED owns half of the national debt, this equals roughly 1.5 Trillion dollars for the year at their average 5% interest rate. Add in their transaction fees and they easily made a profit of 2 Trillion dollars which the majority must be returned to the US minus their operating costs. The US Treasury balance sheet shows they only returned 500 Billion as of 2008. 33 pages and counting.......stop dancing around the question already.

where are you pulling those bullshit numbers? first, a few posts back i provided treasury links that shows that the fed only owns 1.111 trillion of 11 trillion of US government debt. second, the US government does not pay anywhere near 5%. It's more in the range of 3-4%.


here's the link again:

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/...ddebt_may09.pdf

quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 all that means is there are around 830,000 morons and a few intelligent people who accidently stumbled to the link.

Sure what ever you say.

quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 where are you pulling those bullshit numbers? first, a few posts back i provided treasury links that shows that the fed only owns 1.111 trillion of 11 trillion of US government debt. second, the US government does not pay anywhere near 5%. It's more in the range of 3-4%. here's the link again: http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/...ddebt_may09.pdf

I already posted and explained how I came up with these numbers, which if you paid attention or actually knew simple math and central banking procedures you would of understood it by now.

Here you go, read and learn.


Firstly the national debt is around 11.5 Trillion dollars. This consists of Intragovernmental debt and Public debt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

Out of the 5.8 Trillion dollars of Public debt, the FED's hold all of it, which is used as collateral for printing money.

Out of that 5.8 Trillion dollars, 3 Trillion is owned by foreign governments.

http://www.treas.gov/tic/mfh.txt

This means the FED's own roughly 50% of their collateral. With a money supply of 52 Trillion dollars which is created by the Mandrake Mechanism (10 x 5.8 Trillion = 58 Trillion dollars minus the actual reserves themselves because they are not counted) at a 5% interest average this would equal 1.25 Trillion dollars in interest earned each year plus their other transaction fees.

2 Trillion dollars easily, thank you very much.

Unless of course you can explain another way of how 52 Trillion is created out of thin air I challenge you to prove me wrong.

So once again the FED reported on the 2008 balance sheet that they returned 500 Billion dollars, where is the rest of the money?

quote:

Originally posted by culorut I already posted and explained how I came up with these numbers, which if you paid attention or actually knew simple math and central banking procedures you would of understood it by now. Here you go, read and learn. Firstly the national debt is around 11.5 Trillion dollars. This consists of Intragovernmental debt and Public debt. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt Out of the 5.8 Trillion dollars of Public debt, the FED's hold all of it, which is used as collateral for printing money. Out of that 5.8 Trillion dollars, 3 Trillion is owned by foreign governments. http://www.treas.gov/tic/mfh.txt This means the FED's own roughly 50% of their collateral. With a money supply of 52 Trillion dollars which is created by the Mandrake Mechanism (10 x 5.8 Trillion = 58 Trillion dollars minus the actual reserves themselves because they are not counted) at a 5% interest average this would equal 1.25 Trillion dollars in interest earned each year plus their other transaction fees. 2 Trillion dollars easily, thank you very much. Unless of course you can explain another way of how 52 Trillion is created out of thin air I challenge you to prove me wrong. So once again the FED reported on the 2008 balance sheet that they returned 500 Billion dollars, where is the rest of the money?

blah blah blah - read the fucking official treasury reports, which directly refutes your claim. It clearly establishes that the fed owns 1.1 trillion of public debt.

And where do you get the $52 trillion from? As you can ably read, there were only 8.3 trillion in money supply (currency + savings deposits... currency alone is a mere 1.6 trillion) at the beginning of the month.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/Current/

The "Mandrake Mechanism" specifies the possible extent of collatoral monetization, not what is actually occuring. So while the Federal Reserve might be legally allowed to conjure up roughly $10 trillion in money supply (see jerz's post to reference the ACTUAL amount of collateral held by the Reserve), they've showed a great deal of restraint in stopping at $8.3 trillion.

With 5% annual interest on $8.3 trillion, it shouldn't surprise you that the Federal Reserve apparently went above the $415 billion it earned, returning $500 billion to the Treasury.

It's easy to ask questions that nobody has answers to when you use faulty math and data to produce them.

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov With 5% annual interest on $8.3 trillion, it shouldn't surprise you that the Federal Reserve apparently went above the $415 billion it earned, returning $500 billion to the Treasury.

and why does he keep insisting the fed is receiving 5% interest. The treasury report clearly states that the average interest rate on TBill is 0.5% and the average rate on T notes is 3.3%.

quote:

Originally posted by culorut That is exactly what I meant, "they" being the FED have to give back all of their earnings minus expenses to the US. Did you forget how to fucking read?

You said they'r giving back only 10, 20% dipshit. I posted an income statement and balance sheet of the Fed's portfolio and clearly they do not make profits.

quote:

Originally posted by culorut Can someone answer the question on why the FED has not returned or even answered as to why they have not returned Trillions of dollars back to the US now would be a good time.

you haven't given us one single piece of information that indicates that this money you're talking about belongs back with the treasury. as we have repeatedly tried to educate you: only PROFITS are returned. you have no idea what this money was intended for, so (once again) you're beginning your conspiratorial nonsense with a flawed premise. go back to school!

don't you see, he cant go back to school. They have all been corrupted!

quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 blah blah blah - read the fucking official treasury reports, which directly refutes your claim. It clearly establishes that the fed owns 1.1 trillion of public debt.

Wrong. Bear in mind the chart below is from 1998, the FED now accounts for roughly 48% of the National debt presently.

quote:

And where do you get the $52 trillion from? As you can ably read, there were only 8.3 trillion in money supply (currency + savings deposits... currency alone is a mere 1.6 trillion) at the beginning of the month.

Fuck you are stupid. This is exactly why none of you understand how the central banks work.

They are able to charge interest on the roughly half of the National debt they own. Using the Mandrake Mechanism they are charging interest on 52 Trillion dollars not 5.5 Trillion of what they own. This is because of the multiplier of the Mandrake Mechanism which is 10 times what is actually in the reserve they own.

They use this air money and send it to their member banks (which is actually the FED) so they can give idiots like you loans and charge you interest on it.

Please tell me you think there is only 8.3 Trillion dollars in money supply/circulation so I can laugh in all of your faces.

And again prove me wrong, so far I see lots of retarded attacks from the sheeple but no answers.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN you haven't given us one single piece of information that indicates that this money you're talking about belongs back with the treasury. as we have repeatedly tried to educate you: only PROFITS are returned. you have no idea what this money was intended for, so (once again) you're beginning your conspiratorial nonsense with a flawed premise. go back to school!

Profits=Interest

They make profits from 52 Trillion in the money supply they are creating using a 10 x multiplier. They are accountable to pay all of it back minus operating expenses to the USA.

If you think there is only 11.5 Trillion dollars in money supply then there would not be any paper money or credit to go around you fucking moron.

Central banks are allowed to create money out of thin air and idiots like you pay interest on it.

Without debt there would be ZERO money.

Go back to fucking school or stay in it if you feel you can get better at grasping basic knowledge. A quick warning though....which ever path you might decide, it's not going to help if you are retarded.

quote:

Originally posted by culorut They are able to charge interest on the roughly half of the National debt they own. Using the Mandrake Mechanism they are charging interest on 52 Trillion dollars not 5.5 Trillion of what they own. This is because of the multiplier of the Mandrake Mechanism which is 10 times what is actually in the reserve they own.

Um, prove it. The Mandrake Mechanism, as I mentioned, stipulates what is allowed by US law if the Fed maxed out their monetization - not what actually exists.

Look, if you're going to continue to ignore data, such as that presented by myself in the Money Stock Measures report or by jerz in the Treasury report, what point is there in continuing this discussion? You're clearly incapable of processing information that doesn't congeal nicely with your loose interpretation of libertarian websites.

And frankly, for being such a crusader for the people, you really do have an unbelievable disdain for them.

quote:

You said they'r giving back only 10, 20% dipshit. I posted an income statement and balance sheet of the Fed's portfolio and clearly they do not make profits.

Go learn some math you before you speak and post bullshit from websites written by the leaders in raping countries.

They are only giving back 10-20% and I have not even talked about the bail out yet.

Because of people like you who do not understand a fucking thing about banking turned a blind eye and gave the banks another Trillion or so to help them rape the country even more.

Pat yourself on the back educated one.

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Um, prove it. The Mandrake Mechanism, as I mentioned, stipulates what is allowed by US law if the Fed maxed out their monetization - not what actually exists. Look, if you're going to continue to ignore data, such as that presented by myself in the Money Stock Measures report or by jerz in the Treasury report, what point is there in continuing this discussion? You're clearly incapable of processing information that doesn't congeal nicely with your loose interpretation of libertarian websites. And frankly, for being such a crusader for the people, you really do have an unbelievable disdain for them.

How much money supply is in the economy based on the percentage of the National debt the FED owns?

a. 5.8 Trillion

b. 52 Trillion


You really should stop contributing to this thread if you cannot answer this correctly.

quote:

Originally posted by culorut How much money supply is in the economy based on the percentage of the National debt the FED owns? a. 5.8 Trillion b. 52 Trillion You really should stop contributing to this thread if you cannot answer this correctly.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/Current/

quote:

Originally posted by culorut Go learn some math you before you speak and post bullshit from websites written by the leaders in raping countries.

I am. It's called an E-D-U-C-A-T-I-O-N. You should try it sometime.

quote:

They are only giving back 10-20% and I have not even talked about the bail out yet.

Prove it or stop pulling random numbers out of your ass.

quote:

Because of people like you who do not understand a fucking thing about banking

I'v worked for years in a financial institution and I am a finance major specializing in financial analysis. I think I know what I'm talking about...

quote:

turned a blind eye and gave the banks another Trillion or so to help them rape the country even more.

You just sound like an unintelligible idiot.

quote:

Pat yourself on the back educated one.

Thank you. I am relatively educated. What are you? High school dropout with the internet? Fighting the good fight on a trance music website...you'r pathetic...

quote:

Originally posted by culorut Profits=Interest They make profits from 52 Trillion in the money supply they are creating using a 10 x multiplier. They are accountable to pay all of it back minus operating expenses to the USA. If you think there is only 11.5 Trillion dollars in money supply then there would not be any paper money or credit to go around you fucking moron. Central banks are allowed to create money out of thin air and idiots like you pay interest on it. Without debt there would be ZERO money. Go back to fucking school or stay in it if you feel you can get better at grasping basic knowledge. A quick warning though....which ever path you might decide, it's not going to help if you are retarded.

you should spend more time in an economics class and less time regurgitating the drivel you find in the money masters. almost all of what you have written here is completely wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/Current/

LOL, very good you learned how to link to a website and read.

Let's get to the good part....for the nine billionth time.

There is roughly 10 Trillion dollars (physical) in central bank money (FED's) which they own half of. The rest is owned by foreign countries, etc. Read the fucking stats in the link I posted ten times already.

http://www.treas.gov/tic/mfh.txt

The FED can now turn around and multiply this figure by 10 times because of fractional reserve banking and charge interest through their member banks (the FEDS's) because of commercial bank money which in reality is air money (money created through loans).

I was being conservative with using a 5% interest rate when you take into factor what banks (FED's) actually charge for various types of loans, mortgages, etc. Do not forget to add the huge amounts of money from transaction fees to your final figure.

I will let you do the rest of the math at this point but I will give you a hint, the interest accumulated is in the Trillions and most of it is never returned to the USA from their private banks which are the FED themselves.

Where is the money?

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton

Still do not have the brains to answer the question?

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN

Yeah more of the same, how much money is in the money supply KFC?

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