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quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Jesus, man. I sure hope he doesn't temporarily display your posts in morbid curiosity toward what you're saying about him. He'd definitely be letting you win.

When I'm done taking shit, I flush, don't look back into the bowl, let alone take pitures of it. Nice trollbait, tho

Jesus Christ!











Hal's the only person not on his ignore list.

the funniest part in all of this is that he still doesn't get it.

Well here is some more shitty news coming out of Libya. We are now just learning that the leader of the Libyan rebel forces fought against the U.S. in Afghanistan until he was captured in 2002. He also admitted that his fighters have Al-Qaeda links.

quote:

Abdel-Hakim al-Hasidi, the Libyan rebel leader, has said jihadists who fought against allied troops in Iraq are on the front lines of the battle against Muammar Gaddafi�s regime. Mr al-Hasidi insisted his fighters �are patriots and good Muslims, not terrorists,� but added that the �members of al-Qaeda are also good Muslims and are fighting against the invader�. His revelations came even as Idriss Deby Itno, Chad�s president, said al-Qaeda had managed to pillage military arsenals in the Libyan rebel zone and acquired arms, �including surface-to-air missiles, which were then smuggled into their sanctuaries�. Mr al-Hasidi admitted he had earlier fought against �the foreign invasion� in Afghanistan, before being �captured in 2002 in Peshwar, in Pakistan�. He was later handed over to the US, and then held in Libya before being released in 2008.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...aeda-links.html


Scary stuff... we're not even really sure who we're supporting over there.

Maybe they'll stop fighting us so much if they actually see us helping put down someone committing genocide against them.

I didn't know that, "Never Again," when it came to genocide came with caveats. Never Again! - unless you happen to be our enemy, not white, poor, far away, or other reasons to be determined.

quote:

Originally posted by Lews Maybe they'll stop fighting us so much if they actually see us helping put down someone committing genocide against them.

I hope you're right. But as long as us westerners are viewed as non-believing infidels to the fundamentalists, it's gonna be tough.

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss I hope you're right. But as long as us westerners are viewed as non-believing infidels to the fundamentalists, it's gonna be tough.

I hope I'm right, too

Luckily, though, the fundamentalists are a tiny portion of the population. And if they see that we are helpful and not just assholes who want to make a new empire out of their lands, then they might start to change their opinions.

quote:

Originally posted by Lews I hope I'm right, too Luckily, though, the fundamentalists are a tiny portion of the population. And if they see that we are helpful and not just assholes who want to make a new empire out of their lands, then they might start to change their opinions.

Not sure what's meant by "tiny"... I just read yesterday that a newly published 2007 study from West Point's Counter Terrorism Center showed that Libya has sent per capita the highest number of foreign jihadists to Iraq, and was a world leader in Al Qaeda suicide bomber recruitment.

Link to the study here--> http://mathaba.net/news/?x=626278

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss Not sure what's meant by "tiny"... I just read yesterday that a newly published 2007 study from West Point's Counter Terrorism Center showed that Libya has sent per capita the highest number of foreign jihadists to Iraq, and was a world leader in Al Qaeda suicide bomber recruitment. Link to the study here--> http://mathaba.net/news/?x=626278

I meant more in a general, "most Muslims are not fundamentalists," kind of way

Ahhh. Yes. This is true. But a lot of them are. I forgot who said this, but: if you take 3 gallons of ice cream, and mix it with 1 gallon of dog shit, it's going to taste a lot more like the latter than the former.

Well thats true of most religions. Theres a chance that most christians are perfectly nice people, but because of those really terrible ones its quite reasonable to view all of them sideways until they prove that they arent in fact completely batshit insane.

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss Ahhh. Yes. This is true. But a lot of them are. I forgot who said this, but: if you take 3 gallons of ice cream, and mix it with 1 gallon of dog shit, it's going to taste a lot more like the latter than the former.

I pretty much view all religions that way, especially ones that implement a very large over-arching world view like Muslims and Christians. They are both bat-shit insane and do nothing good for society's advancement. It would be better to exterminate them and face the trials of dealing with them now then it would be to let them continue to slowly destroy the world.

quote:

Originally posted by Joss Weatherby I pretty much view all religions that way, especially ones that implement a very large over-arching world view like Muslims and Christians. They are both bat-shit insane and do nothing good for society's advancement. It would be better to exterminate them and face the trials of dealing with them now then it would be to let them continue to slowly destroy the world.

I was wondering when that rapture thing was going to happen.

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss Ahhh. Yes. This is true. But a lot of them are. I forgot who said this, but: if you take 3 gallons of ice cream, and mix it with 1 gallon of dog shit, it's going to taste a lot more like the latter than the former.

That metaphor does not apply at all to to the Islam / fundamentalist issue at all. What you're basically saying is that a comparatively small percentage of something overrules the majority.

Some Republicans are overzealous Christian fundamentalists. Well, I guess we should treat them like they all are then, and ignore the ones who just want to limit spending and encourage self-reliance.

quote:

Originally posted by WittyHandle That metaphor does not apply at all to to the Islam / fundamentalist issue at all. What you're basically saying is that a comparatively small percentage of something overrules the majority. Some Republicans are overzealous Christian fundamentalists. Well, I guess we should treat them like they all are then, and ignore the ones who just want to limit spending and encourage self-reliance.

I know Kevin isn't a conservative christian who thinks the world is only 6000 years old and thinks that evolution is fake and that people who are atheists aren't patriotic, but I treat him as such because its easier to lump him in with that group than differentiate. Maybe if I perceived conservatives to over all not be that way then I wouldn't have to.

quote:

Originally posted by WittyHandle That metaphor does not apply at all to to the Islam / fundamentalist issue at all. What you're basically saying is that a comparatively small percentage of something overrules the majority. Some Republicans are overzealous Christian fundamentalists. Well, I guess we should treat them like they all are then, and ignore the ones who just want to limit spending and encourage self-reliance.

Oh yes, the metaphor does apply in today's world. I'm short on examples of Christians burning down mosques and murdering muslim religious leaders- but it's happening to Christians (especially the Coptics) all over the middle east and north/east africa right now. Yes, it is- and I will provide examples the main stream media (is too pussy to report) won't report if you want to challenge that statement. And we've had what... maybe 2 abortion doctors killed in 15 years by Christian fundies? Compared to.... I can't even count the number of suicide bombings and murders of innocents in the name of religion among Muslims. 126 federal indictments have been handed out by our government on terrorism charges in the last 2 years. 126 went to Muslims. I am anti religion in general- but let's not be afraid to admit the drastic difference in Muslim fundie murderous actions compared to Christians; there is no comparison.

We can laugh all we want at the stupid Jesus Camp videos and shake our heads in disgust over its "indoctrination"... or we can look at the children in Pakistan who are being taught to play "suicide bomber" games which they role play infidel killing martyrs.

quote:

Originally posted by Joss Weatherby I know Kevin isn't a conservative christian who thinks the world is only 6000 years old and thinks that evolution is fake and that people who are atheists aren't patriotic, but I treat him as such because its easier to lump him in with that group than differentiate. Maybe if I perceived conservatives to over all not be that way then I wouldn't have to.

You know I'm not one thing, but you treat me as such because it's convenient for your narrative. How "progressive" of you.

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss And we've had what... maybe 2 abortion doctors killed in 15 years by Christian fundies? Compared to.... I can't even count the number of suicide bombings and murders of innocents in the name of religion among Muslims. 126 federal indictments have been handed out by our government on terrorism charges in the last 2 years. 126 went to Muslims. I am anti religion in general- but let's not be afraid to admit the drastic difference in Muslim fundie murderous actions compared to Christians; there is no comparison. We can laugh all we want at the stupid Jesus Camp videos and shake our heads in disgust over its "indoctrination"... or we can look at the children in Pakistan who are being taught to play "suicide bomber" games which they role play infidel killing martyrs.

http://www.mpac.org/assets/docs/pub...rorism-Data.pdf


Terrorism by Muslim Americans has only accounted for a minority of terror plots since 9/11. Since the attacks on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, Muslims have been involved in 45 domestic terrorist plots. Meanwhile, non-Muslims have been involved in 80 terrorist plots.

In fact, right-wing extremist and white supremacist attacks plots alone outnumber plots by Muslims, with both groups being involved in 63 terror plots, 18 more plots than Muslim Americans have been involved in. Here is a breakdown of attacks by group, along with a few examples of plots by some of these groups:

Anti-Government/Anti-Tax Extremists: There have been 36 plots by right-wing extremists since 9/11. These attacks include Joseph Stack�s suicide attack on a Texas IRS building and Joshua Cartwright, who became enraged after the election of Barack Obama and �believed that the US Government was conspiring against him.�

KKK/NeoNazi/White Supremacist: There have been 27 plots by white supremacists since 9/11. These attacks include a 2004 letter bombing of the Arizona Office of Diversity and Dialogue that injured three employees.

Unknown/Miscellaneous: There were five attacks that federal crime officials did not categorize.

Christian Extremists/Anti-Abortion: There were three attacks by anti-abortion extremists and Christian extremists. The killing of abortion provider George Tiller is the most prominent of these attacks.

Black Supremacist Cults: There were two plots by black supremacist cults.

Jewish Extremists: There were two plots by Jewish extremists. The most prominent of these was a plot by Robert Goldstein to attack a local Islamic center with home made C4 and other explosives.

Extreme Anti-Immigrant: There were two plots by anti-immigrant extremists. One of these was the attack by Shawn Forde, who murdered a Queens deli clerk and was motivated by racist and anti-immigrant feelings.

Anti-Jewish: There was one plot by an anti-Semitic extremist. Norman Leboon made anti-Semitic threats against Rep. Eric Cantor (R-VA).

Anarchist: There was a single plot by an anarchist. Joseph D. Konopka �wreaked havoc in 13 counties by setting fires, disrupting radio and television broadcasts, disabling an air traffic control system, selling counterfeit software, and damaging the computer system of an Internet service provider.�


- - -

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/01/0...lization.study/

"Muslim-American communities have been active in preventing radicalization," said Charles Kurzman, professor of sociology at UNC, in the statement. "This is one reason that Muslim-American terrorism has resulted in fewer than three dozen of the 136,000 murders committed in the United States since 9/11."

"The terrorist threat posed by radicalized Muslim- Americans has been exaggerated, according to a study released Wednesday by researchers at Duke University and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

A small number of Muslim-Americans have undergone radicalization since the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, the study found. It compiled a list of 139 individuals it categorized as "Muslim-American terrorism offenders" who had become radicalized in the U.S. in that time -- a rate of 17 per year."

- - -

A new report found that the number of American Muslims involved in terrorist acts dropped by more than half compared to 2009. It also revealed that more non-Muslim Americans were involved in terrorist plots than Muslim Americans.

The study, conducted by the Triangle Center on Terrorism and Homeland Security at Duke University, showed that last year twenty American Muslims had been arrested on charges of terrorism, down sharply from 2009′s peak of forty-seven.The spike in 2009, which has raised fears of increasing domestic radicalization, was largely an aberration due to the arrest of a group of seventeen Somali-Americans who had joined al-Shabaab in Somalia.

The number of plots by Muslim Americans against domestic targets dropped from eighteen in 2009 to ten in 2010.

Last year there were more than twenty plots by non-Muslims including Joseph Stack who crashed an airplane into an IRS building in Texas.

David Schanzer, director of the Triangle Center, said that the study, �puts into perspective the threat presented by domestic radicalization of Muslim Americans.�

He adds, �Americans should take note that these crimes are being perpetrated by a handful of people whose actions are denounced and rejected by virtually all the Muslims living in the United States.�

- - - -


I'm WAY more worried about crazy Christians and pissed off Tea Party members that I am about Muslims.

quote:

Originally posted by Lews I'm WAY more worried about crazy Christians and pissed off Tea Party members that I am about Muslims.

You're entire post was full of horse shit. Sorry. You posted information published by the Muslim advocacy group called "Muslim Public Affairs Council", who works just like CAIR by rushing to the defense of any person or Muslim Brotherhood front group that law enforcement investigates or arrests, and has defended actual designated terrorist organizations. A more poor choice of objectivity I cannot think of.

Do you seriously... honestly... think random groups of rednecks out in the sticks and the KKK pose a serious threat to the country? Who shot up 13 officers in Fort Hood last year? Who tried to blow up Times Square last year? Who tried to blow up a plane over Detroit on X-mas? Who tried to detonate a bomb during a X-mas tree lighting in Portland, OR 3 months ago? Hint: not rednecks.

It's a simple fact man. Attorney General Eric Holder, as much as I'm sure he hated admitting it, recently came forward and said that in the last 24 months, 126 indictments on terrorism have been handed out, ALL to Muslims. It was reported by ABC news:

Link: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/atto...12444727&page=1


Edit: When you can point out the things the Tea Party has done, and what "them crazy Christians" have done that have you so worried, please share.

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss Do you seriously... honestly... think random groups of rednecks out in the sticks and the KKK pose a serious threat to the country?

Ahem, Timothy McVeigh?

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss Edit: When you can point out the things the Tea Party has done, and what "them crazy Christians" have done that have you so worried, please share.

Ruby Ridge
Waco (though I don't think any feds died during that)
Oklahoma City
Eric Robert Rudolph
Spokane Bomb Threat
Hutaree

In fact, before 9/11, all of the largest terrorist killings in this country were committed by Chrstians, except the first WTC attack which only killed 7 people.

Also, Muslims don't really got beef with the PNW, but we do have a shit ton of crazy christians.

Also I didn't really fear anything after the Portland threat, seeing that the main people involved in organizing it were FBI agents, only the trigger man was some dumb kid who really didn't have any major involvement in planning or attempting to execute it. Also seeing that Portland had told the FBI to fuck off a while ago and refused to cooperate with the city in its investigations in a number of incidents this seemed more like a ploy to get Portland "back on the boat."

No, I really do not fear Muslims, I fear, and I think everyone should fear the increasingly large number of reactionary white christians with guns in this country, because by sheer numbers they seem a lot more capable and willing to do damage, especially when there is a nigger in the white house.

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss Do you seriously... honestly... think random groups of rednecks out in the sticks and the KKK pose a serious threat to the country? Who shot up 13 officers in Fort Hood last year? Who tried to blow up Times Square last year? Who tried to blow up a plane over Detroit on X-mas? Who tried to detonate a bomb during a X-mas tree lighting in Portland, OR 3 months ago? Hint: not rednecks.

Setting aside the fort hood guy for a second...if the others that you mentioned are the kin of people youre up against, you might as well fire 99% of your anti terrorism staff because if that level of incompetence is a norm among terrorists you have absolutely nothing to worry about.

Then again there is the question of american incompetence as well. The idiot who tried to blow up a plane last year...he was on the no fly list, his dad told you guys that his son was radicalised and that he probably shoudnt be allowed to fly because he might do something stupid (like trying to blow up a plane) and your excellent anti terrorism guys did...nothing. The guy boarded a plane with no problem and save for his incompetence and some quick action fromt he people on the plane the day was saved. It seems to me that if the american anti terrorist people werent a bunch of fuck ups themselves, the threat of terrorism would be even less than it is now.



On a bit of a side note though, the guy who did the killing spree in arizona last year was not a muslim and neither were these wonderful people

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss Oh yes, the metaphor does apply in today's world. I'm short on examples of Christians burning down mosques and murdering muslim religious leaders- but it's happening to Christians (especially the Coptics) all over the middle east and north/east africa right now. Yes, it is- and I will provide examples the main stream media (is too pussy to report) won't report if you want to challenge that statement. And we've had what... maybe 2 abortion doctors killed in 15 years by Christian fundies? Compared to.... I can't even count the number of suicide bombings and murders of innocents in the name of religion among Muslims. 126 federal indictments have been handed out by our government on terrorism charges in the last 2 years. 126 went to Muslims. I am anti religion in general- but let's not be afraid to admit the drastic difference in Muslim fundie murderous actions compared to Christians; there is no comparison.

That's not the element I was referring to. I was talking about your justification that a relatively small subset of a large group can dominate how people perceive it. I am not saying there is only a small group of violent Muslims we need to worry about. I am saying in comparison to Muslims as a whole they are a small percentage. Also I was not comparing the severity of the worst elements of the two religions.

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss You know I'm not one thing, but you treat me as such because it's convenient for your narrative. How "progressive" of you.

Truth. However you are doing the very same thing against Islam as a whole, you just don't know it.

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