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-- Do you believe there is a U.S. government cover-up surrounding 9/11?
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Originally posted by iTranscendence Yes.

Do YOU have anything to say or just a bunch of links that I won't be looking at?

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Originally posted by Krypton Do YOU have anything to say or just a bunch of links that I won't be looking at?

Is there anything in particular that you would like to discuss with me about it?

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Originally posted by iTranscendence Is there anything in particular that you would like to discuss with me about it?

Yeah, I�d like to know what horrible, scarring incident in your childhood turned you into such an ignorant, intellectual-hating philistine?

You refer to that as though it's a bad thing.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Yeah, I�d like to know what horrible, scarring incident in your childhood turned you into such an ignorant, intellectual-hating philistine?

I'm watching you right now through one of your 6 million+ cctv cameras, in fact, your gov is paying me to spy on you ;-).

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Yeah, I�d like to know what horrible, scarring incident in your childhood turned you into such an ignorant, intellectual-hating philistine?

Really?

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Originally posted by iTranscendence I'm watching you right now through one of your 6 million+ cctv cameras, in fact, your gov is paying me to spy on you ;-).

Ok, I have an honest question regarding the lies, distortions, half-truths and woeful inferences you�ve quoted at length above.

Re the fire fighters and �bombs in the buildings�: Why do you put such stock in the honest mistakes made by fire fighters under tremendous and extraordinary conditions, even though such claims have been shown (repeatedly) to be false, in all the information that surfaced after the fact? Do you not feel dishonest at all? Conspiracy theorists thrive on the misinformation available during something like a terrorist attack- it doesn�t matter if such information is subsequently shown to be false, you�ll still be repeating that information 8 fucking years later.

Why do you have such a problem with basic reasoning?

10 characteristics of conspiracy theorists
A useful guide by Donna Ferentes

6. Inability to tell good evidence from bad. Conspiracy theorists have no place for peer-review, for scientific knowledge, for the respectability of sources. The fact that a claim has been made by anybody, anywhere, is enough for them to reproduce it and demand that the questions it raises be answered, as if intellectual enquiry were a matter of responding to every rumour. While they do this, of course, they will claim to have "open minds" and abuse the sceptics for apparently lacking same.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Ok, I have an honest question regarding the lies, distortions, half-truths and woeful inferences you�ve quoted at length above. Re the fire fighters and �bombs in the buildings�: Why do you put such stock in the honest mistakes made by fire fighters under tremendous and extraordinary conditions, even though such claims have been shown (repeatedly) to be false, in all the information that surfaced after the fact?

And yet, you bring absolutely nothing but a bunch of platitudes hyperbole and psuedo-intellectual psycho-analysis of me and my state of mind. There were giant marble slabs blown across the lobby when the firefighters got in there and there is film of it from the french documentary producers who were with the FDNY Unit on the morning of 9/11.

Furthermore there has been plenty of eyewitness testimony to the massive amounts of molten steel by the firefighters as well, one went so far as to call it a molten foundry. But I'm sure you believe that refined kerosene (jet fuel) could actually cause something like that to happen. Or even more preposterously, actually believe the friction of the building falling; of which there was very little could actually cause massive amounts of steel to melt. Steel that stayed molten underneath ground zero and was in excess of 1300 degrees at some points in the rubble from heat maps taken by NASA satellites 4 weeks later.

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Originally posted by iTranscendence molten steel

lols. I see this conversation is pointless (gee, what a shock!!). I can�t believe that after all these years, you fucking idiots are still harping on about molten steel.

Fuck, I�d feel sorry for you if you weren�t such a dishonest fuckwit.

Goodnight.

quote:

Originally posted by iTranscendence Is there anything in particular that you would like to discuss with me about it?

Let's approach this like we'r in a court of law.

1) Who are you indicting?
2) What charges are you filing?
3) What evidence do you bring before the court to prove the accused committed the crime for which you are accusing them of?

We'll go one by one. One defendant. One charge. Evidence for that charge.

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Originally posted by iTranscendence There were giant marble slabs blown across the lobby when the firefighters got in there and there is film of it from the french documentary producers who were with the FDNY Unit on the morning of 9/11.

The film is only as good as those who filmed big foot or UFOs. It proves NOTHING.

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Furthermore there has been plenty of eyewitness testimony to the massive amounts of molten steel by the firefighters as well, one went so far as to call it a molten foundry. But I'm sure you believe that refined kerosene (jet fuel) could actually cause something like that to happen. Or even more preposterously, actually believe the friction of the building falling; of which there was very little could actually cause massive amounts of steel to melt. Steel that stayed molten underneath ground zero and was in excess of 1300 degrees at some points in the rubble from heat maps taken by NASA satellites 4 weeks later.

The onus is on you to prove explosives were used. Not us to prove they weren't there.

1) Who set the explosives?
2) How did they hide the tonnes of explosives needed?
3) Who managed such a complex operation?
4) Who ordered it?
5) Why fly planes into the building if the conspiracy planned a demolition?

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Originally posted by Krypton Let's approach this like we'r in a court of law. 1) Who are you indicting? 2) What charges are you filing? 3) What evidence do you bring before the court to prove the accused committed the crime for which you are accusing them of?

Well I think I would first start with another investigation, one that didn't have key players in positions to control the flow of information like phillip zellikow was on the first commission. I mean, we investigated pearl harbor like 9 times.

This should be done to answer a list of legitimate questions the victims families still have.

http://911independentcommission.org/questions.html


I believe there is ample evidence to show criminal negligence by several governmental agencies regarding 9/11. Including but not limited to:

The destruction of 2.5 terabytes of data of operation able danger, which had been surveying mohammed atta for at least 18 months. (if you want to debate if you should believe shaffer or the FBI that's another debate)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9342936/

Key evidence that was destroyed by the FAA
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/w...6¬Found=true

The censured testimony of nomran mineta the transportation secretary, from the final commission report.

All the testimonies of the NSWBC (National Security Whistleblowers Coalition). Yes, thats right there is an entire group of whistle blowers who are screaming criminal negligence.
http://www.nswbc.org/Press%20Releases/NSWBC-911Comm.htm


I believe once full proceedings were underway the full extent of what has happened will come to light, but that's all you need to get your foot in the door.

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Originally posted by iTranscendence I believe there is ample evidence to show criminal negligence by several governmental agencies regarding 9/11.

its funny how they dance and weave between "OMG bush planted bombs in the towers" to "criminal negligence for not stopping the attacks". lols.

its the same with cretinrot, who thinks no plane hit the pentagon AND that cheney gave a "stand down" order not to shoot the plane that crashed into the pentagon.

I also wanna know who is left to conduct this investigation, since the thousand of government and private sector employees are so obviously �in on it�. Who is left to investigate? Haha.

love their logic

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN its funny how they dance and weave between "OMG bush planted bombs in the towers" to "criminal negligence for not stopping the attacks". lols. its the same with cretinrot, who thinks no plane hit the pentagon AND that cheney gave a "stand down" order not to shoot the plane that crashed into the pentagon. love their logic

Leave this discussion to the big boys, thanks kid.

quote:

Originally posted by iTranscendence Leave this discussion to the big boys, thanks kid.

I am older than you, have far better qualifications, and quite obviously would thrash you in any measure of logic and deduction anyone could mention, child.

Its not my fault you�re a conspiracy wackjob lacking a proper education. Don�t be jealous, not everyone can afford to go to school. Im sure you�re good at other things.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN I am older than you, have far better qualifications, and quite obviously would thrash you in any measure of logic and deduction anyone could mention, child. Its not my fault you�re a conspiracy wackjob lacking a proper education. Don�t be jealous, not everyone can afford to go to school. Im sure you�re good at other things.

You definitely make an amazing logical case based on deductive reasoning, your skills of debate and persuasion are above reproach.

quote:

Originally posted by iTranscendence You definitely make an amazing logical case based on deductive reasoning, your skills of debate and persuasion are above reproach.

Pig-ignorant, dishonest conspiracy nutjobs are beneath me. What is this, a new member joins, wants a new investigation, posts a bunch of crap we�ve all seen 100 times before, and expects us to waste time with his disingenuous bollocks? Puh-lease.

I took the chance that maybe you were different and asked you about the fire fighter quotes, and all I got in return was the same ignorant, pathetic drivel. Having been putting up with people like you for the last ~5 years I know when there�s an idiot afoot. Why waste time when I could just mock you? these debates never get anywhere because you CTers are fucking morons.

quote:

Originally posted by iTranscendence Well I think I would first start with another investigation, one that didn't have key players in positions to control the flow of information like phillip zellikow was on the first commission. I mean, we investigated pearl harbor like 9 times. This should be done to answer a list of legitimate questions the victims families still have. http://911independentcommission.org/questions.html I believe there is ample evidence to show criminal negligence by several governmental agencies regarding 9/11. Including but not limited to: The destruction of 2.5 terabytes of data of operation able danger, which had been surveying mohammed atta for at least 18 months. (if you want to debate if you should believe shaffer or the FBI that's another debate) http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9342936/ Key evidence that was destroyed by the FAA http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/w...6¬Found=true The censured testimony of nomran mineta the transportation secretary, from the final commission report. All the testimonies of the NSWBC (National Security Whistleblowers Coalition). Yes, thats right there is an entire group of whistle blowers who are screaming criminal negligence. http://www.nswbc.org/Press%20Releases/NSWBC-911Comm.htm I believe once full proceedings were underway the full extent of what has happened will come to light, but that's all you need to get your foot in the door.

Unfortunately, that's not what I asked you. Before you say anything, please clarify your position. Is the government responsible for carrying out 9/11, or simply guilty of a massive national security failure?

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Pig-ignorant, dishonest conspiracy nutjobs are beneath me. What is this, a new member joins, wants a new investigation, posts a bunch of crap we�ve all seen 100 times before, and expects us to waste time with his disingenuous bollocks? Puh-lease. I took the chance that maybe you were different and asked you about the fire fighter quotes, and all I got in return was the same ignorant, pathetic drivel. Having been putting up with people like you for the last ~5 years I know when there�s an idiot afoot. Why waste time when I could just mock you? these debates never get anywhere because you CTers are fucking morons.

Don't give me that you gave me a chance bullshit, you came at me like a bulldog as soon as I posted, there was no discourse with you, it was you, immediately attacking me, I think the only one who needs to see a shrink here is you.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Unfortunately, that's not what I asked you. Before you say anything, please clarify your position. Is the government responsible for carrying out 9/11, or simply guilty of a massive national security failure?

The latter for sure, the former is less concrete, but I think with further investigation could be proven in a court of law.

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Originally posted by iTranscendence Don't give me that you gave me a chance bullshit, you came at me like a bulldog as soon as I posted, there was no discourse with you, it was you, immediately attacking me,

you get what you deserve.

and i gave you a chance. i asked you to explain conspiracy theorists' obsession with first-responder errors, YEARS after those errors have been corrected. and you launched into the now painfully predictable regurgitation of known fallacies. the reason i "came at you like a bulldog" is because ignorant conspiracy theorists are my pet peeve.

i knew from that long list of lies you posted exactly how you would react, but i thought i'd give you a chance to prove me wrong. but, as it stands, im yet to be wrong about the 911 CT encounters. every single time one of you pops up we're expected to debunk the same fucking lies that were dealt with 2-3-4 years ago. its getting old.

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Originally posted by iTranscendence I think the only one who needs to see a shrink here is you.

sorry, i didn't realise an intolerance for liars and charlatans was a disease. but if it is, you're right, i certainly need professional help!!

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN you get what you deserve. and i gave you a chance. i asked you to explain conspiracy theorists' obsession with first-responder errors, YEARS after those errors have been corrected. and you launched into the now painfully predictable regurgitation of known fallacies. the reason i "came at you like a bulldog" is because ignorant conspiracy theorists are my pet peeve. i knew from that long list of lies you posted exactly how you would react, but i thought i'd give you a chance to prove me wrong. but, as it stands, im yet to be wrong about the 911 CT encounters. every single time one of you pops up we're expected to debunk the same fucking lies that were dealt with 2-3-4 years ago. its getting old. sorry, i didn't realise an intolerance for liars and charlatans was a disease. but if it is, you're right, i certainly need professional help!!

It's a good book, I would encourage you to read it.

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Originally posted by iTranscendence It's a good book, I would encourage you to read it.

I have loads of friends already. Why on earth would I want to influence conspiracy theorists? The only thing that influences you is your never-ending quest for the woo. All I�d have to do is make a shitty blog post, full of discredited sources, lies, distortions and false experts, with a summary �super-sonic nano thermite did it!� and you�d be my bitch already.

Unfortunately, I like REALITY far too much.

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Originally posted by iTranscendence The latter for sure, the former is less concrete, but I think with further investigation could be proven in a court of law.

Ok, we all know the government fucked up with national security. What's new? What are you here for? I suspect it's because you believe the US government is behind 9/11. If that is your belief, I am here to make sure that...

a) You prove your case to the point where we are dumbfounded at why we haven't convicted someone of some crime (We'll probably be famous for that).

b) You admit that you have absolutely no case and there is no credible truth to your allegations.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Ok, we all know the government fucked up with national security. What's new? What are you here for? I suspect it's because you believe the US government is behind 9/11. If that is your belief, I am here to make sure that... a) You prove your case to the point where we are dumbfounded at why we haven't convicted someone of some crime (We'll probably be famous for that). b) You admit that you have absolutely no case and there is no credible truth to your allegations.

There's a difference between negligence, and criminal negligence. If we've established that the government is criminally negligent you shouldn't be looking at me for the burden of proof. If you don't think a case for criminal negligence is there, you need to re-examine the evidence. What I am not going to do however, is waste a bunch of my free time debating ad-nauseum with people who have more interest vested in their peace of mind, than the truth. I spent almost 2 years doing just that. And no amount of evidence presented no matter how validated or persuasive it is will sway individuals like that.

I'll put it like this, if you have a problem with any of the questions I'm asking, you have a problem with the victims familes, because they are the exact same questions they are still asking, and no one is listening, except the 'crazies'.

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