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-- Keyed tunes for Harmonic mixers
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Hi everybody,i decide to put a Armin's new mix chart(since ,he deside to mix hes new cd in harmonycal progression )from ASOT cd 2005
M-is major
m-is minor
#-dies
b-bemol

[Disc-1]

1. Interstate - I Found U-[Dbm]-
2. Hidden Logic presents Luminary - Wasting-[Cm]-
3. Markus Schulz - First Time-[Cm]-
4. Max Graham ft. Jessica Jacobs - I Know You're Gone-[Cm]-
5. Mike Foyle presents Statica - Space Guitar-[Gm]-
6. Ava Mea - In The End-[Gm]-
7. Elevation - Pacific Passion-[between Dm and Ebm]-[i think with
the whole pic its going to be more Dm]
8. Locust - Aerospace (Probspot Remix)-[Abm]-
9. Armin van Buuren - Shivers-[Abm]-
10. EnMass - Beyond Horizon-[Cm]-
11. Kyau vs. Albert - Falling Anywhere (Rework)-[Bbm]-
12. Fragile ft. Alex Lemon - Inertia (Armin van Buuren Remix)-[Dbm]-
13. Sophie Sugar - Call Of Tomorrow (John O'Callaghan Remix)-[Fm]-
14. Marcos - Cosmic String-[Cm]-
15. John Askew - Mood Swing-[Cm]-

[Disc-2]

1. Peter Martin presents Anthanasia - Simply Blue-[Em]-
2. Nu Frequency - 808-[Em]-
3. Andy Moor - Halcyon-[Em]-
4. Ahmet Ertenu - Why (Derek Howell Mix)-[Em]-
5. Oliver Lieb vs. Preach - Papel (Preach Remix)-[Em]-
6. Remy - Crackdown-[Em]-
7. Gabriel & Dresden - Arcadia-[Am]-
8. Tilt - Twelve (Max Graham Remix)-[Ebm]-
9. Matthew Dekay vs. Proluctors - The Deep Show-[Bbm]-
10. Recluse - Emotional Void-[Dm]-
11. Adam White ft. Martin Grech - Ballerina-[Dm]-
12. Blank & Jones - Perfect Silence (E-Craig Dub)-[Am]-
13. Kyau vs. Albert - Made Of Sun (Kva Hard Dub - AvB Edit)-[Am]-
14. M.I.K.E. - Massive Motion-[Dm]-
15. Eyewall - Bad Deal-[Abm]-
16. Hammer & Bennett - Language (Santiago Nino Dub Tech Mix)-[Dbm]-
17. Liquid Overdose - Ancient Space (Fred Baker Remix)-[Bm]-
---------------------------------------------------------------------So,the whole picture ,look like this.
Personally ,i dont think if the WHOLE mix was REALY harmonical or ,what Armin meant ?,when he said that it going to be mixed in the key.Yes its mixed in the key (for example ,from E to E or D to D or Eb to Ab),but some times its goes from Dbm to Cm ...or Dbm to Am or Abm to Cm ...which is not realy....i think.

So ,for some more answer of mine ,i found one more intersting thing:

--------If you move up one step(from C to C# or B to C etc)
the new record will use completely different set of notes than the one were you just playing ,and so the change will be very dramatic.To be honest ,most Dj who key their records are interested only in this thing .This is a mixing style most closely associated with TRANCE and PROGRESSIVE HOUSE.
As Anthony Pappa explains,"Say you're playing a record in a certain key ,and it goes down to just a drums.Then if you bring in another record in the right key,when bassline comes in ,it gives an energy lift because it act like a key change."---------(the article has been stolen from "how to DJ right"(book))
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeh,and what about ,from Am to Ebm ,whats Armin did in the mix Do some body have the answer for that?(Thanks)

quote:

Originally posted by RonAron303 Hi everybody,i decide to put a Armin's new mix chart(since ,he deside to mix hes new cd in harmonycal progression )from ASOT cd 2005 M-is major m-is minor #-dies b-bemol [Disc-1] 1. Interstate - I Found U-[Dbm]- 2. Hidden Logic presents Luminary - Wasting-[Cm]- 3. Markus Schulz - First Time-[Cm]- 4. Max Graham ft. Jessica Jacobs - I Know You're Gone-[Cm]- 5. Mike Foyle presents Statica - Space Guitar-[Gm]- 6. Ava Mea - In The End-[Gm]- 7. Elevation - Pacific Passion-[between Dm and Ebm]-[i think with the whole pic its going to be more Dm] 8. Locust - Aerospace (Probspot Remix)-[Abm]- 9. Armin van Buuren - Shivers-[Abm]- 10. EnMass - Beyond Horizon-[Cm]- 11. Kyau vs. Albert - Falling Anywhere (Rework)-[Bbm]- 12. Fragile ft. Alex Lemon - Inertia (Armin van Buuren Remix)-[Dbm]- 13. Sophie Sugar - Call Of Tomorrow (John O'Callaghan Remix)-[Fm]- 14. Marcos - Cosmic String-[Cm]- 15. John Askew - Mood Swing-[Cm]- [Disc-2] 1. Peter Martin presents Anthanasia - Simply Blue-[Em]- 2. Nu Frequency - 808-[Em]- 3. Andy Moor - Halcyon-[Em]- 4. Ahmet Ertenu - Why (Derek Howell Mix)-[Em]- 5. Oliver Lieb vs. Preach - Papel (Preach Remix)-[Em]- 6. Remy - Crackdown-[Em]- 7. Gabriel & Dresden - Arcadia-[Am]- 8. Tilt - Twelve (Max Graham Remix)-[Ebm]- 9. Matthew Dekay vs. Proluctors - The Deep Show-[Bbm]- 10. Recluse - Emotional Void-[Dm]- 11. Adam White ft. Martin Grech - Ballerina-[Dm]- 12. Blank & Jones - Perfect Silence (E-Craig Dub)-[Am]- 13. Kyau vs. Albert - Made Of Sun (Kva Hard Dub - AvB Edit)-[Am]- 14. M.I.K.E. - Massive Motion-[Dm]- 15. Eyewall - Bad Deal-[Abm]- 16. Hammer & Bennett - Language (Santiago Nino Dub Tech Mix)-[Dbm]- 17. Liquid Overdose - Ancient Space (Fred Baker Remix)-[Bm]- ---------------------------------------------------------------------So,the whole picture ,look like this. Personally ,i dont think if the WHOLE mix was REALY harmonical or ,what Armin meant ?,when he said that it going to be mixed in the key.Yes its mixed in the key (for example ,from E to E or D to D or Eb to Ab),but some times its goes from Dbm to Cm ...or Dbm to Am or Abm to Cm ...which is not realy....i think. So ,for some more answer of mine ,i found one more intersting thing: --------If you move up one step(from C to C# or B to C etc) the new record will use completely different set of notes than the one were you just playing ,and so the change will be very dramatic.To be honest ,most Dj who key their records are interested only in this thing .This is a mixing style most closely associated with TRANCE and PROGRESSIVE HOUSE. As Anthony Pappa explains,"Say you're playing a record in a certain key ,and it goes down to just a drums.Then if you bring in another record in the right key,when bassline comes in ,it gives an energy lift because it act like a key change."---------(the article has been stolen from "how to DJ right"(book)) --------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeh,and what about ,from Am to Ebm ,whats Armin did in the mix Do some body have the answer for that?(Thanks)

6. Ava Mea - In The End-[Gm]???? SURELY ITS F#m???
11. Kyau vs. Albert - Falling Anywhere (Rework)-[Bbm]- is this not a MAJOR chord?? Sounds like A# or D# to me?? Probably wrong, but i know Ava Mea is F#m

Hi Johnny2003.

Yes ,you right ,about Ave mea-in the end(is a F#m trully),but in the mix of Armin ,its Gm .I think he pitched it up ,for one more semitone ,for some reason.
And Kyau vs. Albert - Falling Anywhere (Rework) is staing on Bbm or A#m ,is the same,but not D#m.About major or minor :its sounds minor ,some alteration? ,posible.
There are some tunes in the mix ,that has been pitched ,so ,its posible that ,those keys are,a bit pitched out of original ones . Chek the mix ,i think its agood one(:-))(specialy,Armin made some dramatic changes between the tracks,personally i liked how he mixed the same keys(Ebm to Ebm,and others ofcoarse)and the others in Armin's style.So chek it ,you will enjoy.

Remember this guys, there is more to harmonic mixing that just using the basic rules laid out in Camelots theory (Fantastic though they are) there are tons of other musical rules which apply like pitch axis theory (a la Joe Satriani) etc that also work depending on scales used and so on. Armin knows this for sure. All you have to do is listen to his mixes. The other thing is that as you say they are pitching the records so there can be various reasons why tracks work together.

Think outside the box a little.

Cheers
Nem

Hi....

I finally decide to say that--------------------------------------------------------- there is no such thing harmonica mixing-------------------------------
Why? ok,Because all this confuze harmoyadro things coming from classical music ,and so?
For example ,where you can find a progression of keys in classical music?
In every composition,but mostly with good story and mood,is ---OPERA---
Well in opera composers used to modulate ,to every key from every key ,and didnt care about most harmonic roots(example:from Cm to Fm etc)they just have been to deliver the mood for movements(operas parts)it could be all kind of keys ,so all composers had their own specific style of delivering moods(for example they could been put eny far key from the root and that s fine ,sience its all coulors of moods)
Yes for shure Armin took my atention when he mixed those Ebm s but mostly it just the WHOLE STRUCTURE of a track ,that makes seat them very well together ,and if we will add a harmonica ,so who knows maybe other progression will be better?

i think it's wrong to say there's no such thing as harmonic mixing, but it definitely isn't always as simple as the theory states, as there are many other factors besides harmonic theory that contribute to a good mix... ;-)

so.........

say im playing a tune in D#m, at 135 BPM for example.
The tune i have to mix in is D#m too, but is only 130 BPM.

So the amount i have to pitch the incoming tune (say its more than +3 for example) will make the tune Em not D#m, and hence the mix will still work, but i will get that energy life in the mix too?


what is the picth limit where the tune changes key, is it +/- 3:

more than +3 = one key up
more than -3 = one key down

Well,you right about other components,they are like :melody,rythm,timbre and dynamics wich not less important then harmony.Harmony is a part of all those components and the whole pic is structure,well dynamics and timbre are less important for structure but rythm and melody are the most important with harmony.
So,i trying to say that ,why we dont have special topic of 34 pages for rythm or melody or timbre and others,we speak just about harmony ,and its looks like:
"oh yeah,if you go from Cm to Fm it will be the most fantastic and for shure non clashes mix".
But who said that clashes mix is not good ?As i gave an example before --------If you move up one step(from C to C# or B to C etc)
the new record will use completely different set of notes than the one were you just playing ,and so the change will be very dramatic.To be honest ,most Dj who key their records are interested only in this thing .This is a mixing style most closely associated with TRANCE and PROGRESSIVE HOUSE.
As Anthony Pappa explains,"Say you're playing a record in a certain key ,and it goes down to just a drums.Then if you bring in another record in the right key,when bassline comes in ,it gives an energy lift because it act like a key change."---------(the article has been stolen from "how to DJ right"(book))
---------------------------------------------------------------------
So, their is no Cm to Fm or Cm to Gm,their just Cm to C#m and we can close our book of harmony ,and then ,the job is not done ,you have the rythm ,melody and timbre,dynamics.What with them?they are less important for the whole pic?Ofcoarse everybody will say :"oh,come on ,i Know all da thing about melody,rythm,timbre and dynamics,i thode if ill be able to know the harmony too ,so ill be the best around ".
But for example ,most of as dont know much about rythm or melody or timbre or dynamics(i am not speaking here about special techniks of composers)and this things with harmony is just confuze ourselfs .
---------------------------------------------------------------------
So,again i will say that ,their no such thing such harmonical mixing ,just because it will be named other ,like STRUCTURAL mixing .(thnx)(sheers)

Hi Johnny2003.
Personaly i think the change for one key up is 03.2%(its the same as 3% but more calculated)and down is the same 03.2%.
But if i am right,Armin pitched up Ave mea for +6bpm and its jump from F#m to Gm.
How?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
You just do this: 03.2(03.2%bpm)*13(its all keys from F#m to Gm)=41.6%bpm(so its 6bpm total) and its going to be more Gm a bit than F#m if you will calculate it right .
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Explanation on 03.2%bpm for on more key:
For example you want to go from F#m to Gm next octave(its 13 steps up) so if you count it as 3%bpm and you add a 13 steps up you will get a 39 which is sounds more F# or Em but not Gm and if you will count it as 3.2%bpm you will get to 41.6 wich is Gm .
So, in large numbers it will get more out of tune that one you've been expected

I have to admit that I don't really like the term harmonic mixing because very often you are not actually mixing harmonies...although it can be done and sounds sublime. I will just let you guys figure that one out.

quote:

But if i am right,Armin pitched up Ave mea for +6bpm and its jump from F#m to Gm.

At this point what Armin would have been looking to do is do a key lift by one Semitone.
It doesn't have to get as complicated as this. Armin just new that the track was much slower and he also knows that if he has to pitch it up to around plus 6 etc then the pitch will change enough for it to hit the next semitone.
When I key my records, if I have a track that's much slower then I will usually categorise it with the key that it relates to the rest of my collection and not the key it is at zero. Not everything related to this topic has to do with long drawn out proggy mixes. Sometimes there is a need for an energy lift.
I personally however would not choose to have music from one track interfering with another track if I was doing a lift. The effect would be for all intents and purposes quite clangorous.
Also the reason why he did this could be down to restrictions with regards to the material, perhaps there wasn't a track to bridge the two?

With regards to your theory on Opera ( I personally like Opera) as that you are not comparing like for like here. Whilst I understand what you are getting at, the linking of two separate works is very different to the scales and notes used in a single piece of work.
Yes technically we could link tracks together in ways to express sorrow but a lot of that depends on the content of the track itself as you would throw people off a little if you did a really sombre key change but the tracks are by themselves very uplifting.
At this stage, this is when you start to loose the dance floor because you are creating negative energy with the music.

People want excitement and energy when they go clubbing.

Cheers
Nem

Hi Nemesis44 ,you totaly right about Armin's mix and he had been choose some record ,that will harmonicaly mix(he pitched ave mea to Gm) with Gm and Dm(iam shure that he had more tracks to mix with,not just Ave mea ,but he choose Ave mea cause it match the harmony too(since,he sad that the whole mix of asot cd will be mixed harmonicaly)so, i totaly agree with you ,that he had to choose some ,lets say from 5 or more songs 1,and mix (that they will be match both,structure)

I gave an example of opera just because i wanted to show that there is no realy rules to mix harmonicaly.
I heard that people say :"oh he mixed out of tune (kinda clashes),and its not sounds to my ears" .
But its totaly boulshet ,i know some people ,who have perfect pitch and they say : "i dont like jazz ,just because its kick my ears",and those people have 30 years of classical training , so what,do they right?do jazz dont have biuty of the sounds?
And for shure there is A-tonal music ,which not contain keys(all keys are welcome).
Or for example : 4strings's track turn it around ,in this track the root is Emin and EMaj but the lady sings in C#m ,so what ? She do sing out of tune ?or sombody will say that is not biutyfull ?
So,as i understand all the point is to amaizin people out there at the parties ,so why we should realy mix harmonicaly ?and if you want to amaizin people ,you shour not going to mix harmonicaly .

Well,Armin did good job ,and mostly i enjoy with hes structural progressions.
So,again there is for shure more to learn about harmony by its selfs
and not just some Cm to Gm wich good too ,but not enought(i mean, your specific fealings about harmony,which colours(keys and chords) are bringing to you happynnes and wich not or other fealings.(thnx)(cheers)

Good posts without doubt.

And I'm definately not going to argue with you on the most part.
But I do still think that the bit about rules, although it pains me to say it there are very definately some rules you should follow... all be it reluctantly.
I have great admiration for Jazz Musicians and Opera Singers alike. Classical Opera music does most definately conform to rules (Don't like that word but here we go). So does Jazz fusion, as it is those rules that define the genre. If you start playing around with them (Not saying this is a bad thing) you will start to get hybrids which of course is how we get progress. But not all 'rule breaking' is progress.

Within music we have very definate rules as there are certain scales that will give a happy feel and some will give a more sombre feel etc. Jazz Fussion gives a more dark and chaotic feel, which is representative of the mind set of the ones writing it. It can sound like total arse and those priciple would probably not be a very good foundation for the track progression in a DJ set partly due to the intervals at which you would hear these notes.

I agree, it is all about free expression, and you should be looking to broaden your horizons no doubt.

Music is most definately rules and mathematics combined in a beutiful way.

Key thing to remember though is that trance represents Euphoria and it's not very easy (if at all possible) to reach that goal by using some bizarre Jazz scale principle.
I don't know if you have ever seen a DJ who is mixing down the scales so he gives a sort of drop everytime he starts a new track. This has a really bad effect on the dance floor and people will often go away fealing as if they have had a shit night even though some of them may not know why.
The people I play for week in and week out are taking ecstasy and want to fly, not be experimented with, so that is your basic rule for trance mixing. You have to hit them with a blanket of music that will caress their emotions and raise their spirits. Otherwise you should start to notice the facial expressions they have and you should see a more terrorized look.

Your point is valid in theory but I don't know if you play out regularly or not... but I think you would see things differently if you did.

Nice post though and I really enjoy discussing music with people who want to get into the finer points.

Cheers
Nem

i agree with nem the term "harmonic mixing" is misleading. to me, it simply means mixing using knowledge of music theory. while the theory is complex and has been simplified in these forums/sites, i can't deny the impact using this knowledge has had in my own mixing. not only do i find myself combining melodies and harmonies of songs, but i can use key changes for mood transitions as well. in the end, knowledge of the theory opens more creative possibilities...

you point out that jazz and particular tracks "clash" according to harmonic mixing rules outlined here. i think this is inevitable when you come up with any simplified system of rules . obviously the songs make sense to the listener (or most), and taken in context i think music theory can explain why each works. at the very least, as an artist i think you need to understand the "rules" of music theory before you can break them effectively ;-)

most dance tracks i hear however definitely have a predominant key, to which the general rules works quite nicely. ultimately it comes down to your audience. music is very subjective, and while some people might not notice a clash in key, others will. to some i suppose, mixing in key is only icing on the cake. i've found it to allow me add more creativity to my mixes without any clashing, as personally if i here mixing go out of tune or off beat i'm annoyed...

Here is my list of keyed tunes. I compiled this information using this thread, mixshare.com, friends, and learning how to key myself. Message me if any are incorrect. Thanks!

(o! I have some tunes listed more than once....this is because I have more than one version)

KEY ARTIST TITLE REMIX
A/11B 2 Phat ****s Ride Spaced Invaders
Am/8A A Force Atomic Outbreak Original
Em/9A Aalto Rush Super 8 vs. Orkidea Remix
Am/8A Aalto Rush Original
Abm/1A Aalto Taurine Original
Dm/7A Aalto Taurine Super8
Fm/4A Above & Beyond No One On Earth Gabriel & Dresden
Abm/1A Above & Beyond No One On Earth Original
Em/9A Age of Love The Age of Love Marco V
Am/8A Age of Love The Age of Love Mr. Sam vs. Fred Baker
Bbm/3A Airscape Sosei Original
Bm/10A Airscape Sosei Johan Gielen
Dbm/12A Airwave Save Me Whiteroom/Flatline
Bbm/3A Akabu Don't Hold Back Skylark
E/12B Alex Dolby Psiko Garden John Acquaviva Re-edit
Abm/1A Alice Deejay Better Off Alone Vocal Club Mix
Bm/10A Alt F4 Alt F4 Original/Mathew Adams Introspective
Fm/4A Altitude Sunray Original/Airwave
F#m/11A Aly & Fila Eye of Horus Solid Globe/Ronski Speed
Am/8A Andain Beautiful Things Gabriel & Dresden/Josh Gabriel
F#m/11A Anthanasia Perfect Wave Original
F#m/11A Ariel A9 Original
Bm/10A Armin Van Buuren Blue Fear Original 2003 Mix
Bm/10A Art of Trance Madagascar Ferry Corsten/Kumara
Am/8A ATB 9PM (Till I Come) Sequential One/Club/9PM
Bbm/3A ATB 9PM (Till I Come) Signum
Em/9A Audioholics External Key Original/Perry O'neill
Bbm/3A BBE Seven Days & One Week Moguai
Bbm/3A BBE Seven Days & One Week Kai Tracid
Gm/6A Bedrock Heaven Scent Original
Bbm/3A Benny Benassi Satisfaction Isak Original
Cm/5A Binary Finary 1998 Paul Van Dyk/Binary Finary Original
Ebm/2A Blur Song 2 Tim Deluxe
Cm/5A Britney Spears Everytime Above & Beyond
Fm/4A BT Remember Mood II Swing
Dm/7A BT Dreaming Original
Bbm/3A BT Godspeed Original
Cm/5A BT Running Down the way up Original
Bbm/3A BT Mercury & Solace Original
A/11B BT Ride Original
Bbm/3A BT Godspeed Original/Radio Edit
Dm/7A BT Dreaming Original
Bbm/3A BT Mercury & Solace Original
Bbm/3A BT Godspeed Original
Dm/7A BT Dreaming Original/Evolution
Cm/5A BT The Force of Gravity Tiesto/Dylan Rhymes
Am/8A BT The Great Escape Attention Deficit
Cm/5A Chable & Bonnici Ride Original
Am/8A Chable & Bonnici Ride Have a break
Fm/4A Chemical Brothers Star Guitar Original/Pete Heller
Fm/4A Chicane Saltwater Original
Fm/4A Chicane Saltwater Thrillseekers
Abm/1A Conjure One Center of the Sun Junkie XL
Gm/6A Conjure One Center of the Sun 29 Palms
Cm/5A CRW Precious Life Instrumental
Cm/5A D:Fuse Everything with you Club
Em/9A Darude Sandstorm Original
Em/9A Dave Gahan I Need You Gabriel & Dresden
F#m/11A Deep Dish Flashdance Skylark/Guetta & Garraud
Ebm/2A Deepsky Talk Like a Stranger Markus Schulz/Original
Ebm/2A Deepsky Talk Like a Stranger Skylark Dub/Skylark Vocal
Ebm/2A Deepsky Talk Like a Stranger Burufunk
Gm/6A Delerium Silence Airscape
Am/8A Delerium Silence DJ Tiesto In Search of Sunrise
Am/8A Delerium After All Svenson & Gielen
Gm/6A Delerium After All Satoshi Tomeii
Cm/5A Depeche Mode Enjoy the Silence Timo Maas Extended
Am/8A Dirty Vegas Walk Into the Sun King Unique Sunstroke Vocal
F#m/11A DJ Danjo & Rob Styles Duende Original/Signum
Em/9A DJ Tiesto Suburban Train Original
Cm/5A DJ Tiesto 643 (Love's on Fire) Oliver Klein/Oliver Lieb/Quivver
Em/9A DJ Tiesto In My Memory Gabriel & Dresden Elephant Memory Vocal
Am/8A DJ Tiesto Lethal Industry Original/Svenson&Gielen/Numf vs Overdijk
Cm/5A DJ Tiesto Obsession Original
Am/8A DJ Tiesto Obsession Frank Biazzi
Ebm/2A DJ Tiesto A Tear in the Open Original
Am/8A DJ Tiesto Just Be Original
Bbm/3A DJ Tiesto Traffic Original
Bbm/3A DJ Tiesto Adagio for Strings Original
Am/8A DJ Tiesto Just Be Antillas Club/514 Mix
Am/8A DJ Tiesto Ancient History Original
Cm/5A DJ Tiesto Love Comes Again Original/Mark Norman
Gm/6A DK8 Murder Was the Bass Reworked
Am/8A Duncan Sheik On a High Gabriel & Dresden Love From Humboldt
Abm/1A Eddie Amador House Music Message/Beatz 4 Dayz
Dm/7A Empire State Niagara Original/Espen & Elusive
Dm/7A Endre I Kill for You Original/Probspot
Fm/4A Energy 52 Caf� Del Mar Original
Cm/5A Estuera Red Shores Original
Bbm/3A Estuera Chapter 2 Original
Am/8A F Massif Somebody Ferry Corsten
Bbm/3A Faithless We Come 1 Rollo & Sister Bliss
F#m/11A Faithless We Come 1 Dave Clarke
Am/8A Ferry Corsten Punk Original
Bbm/3A Ferry Corsten Rock Your Body Rock Original
F#m/11A Ferry Corsten It's Time Fery Corsten Flashover
Bm/10A Ferry Corsten Right of Way Original
Cm/5A Ferry Corsten Kyoto Original
Bbm/3A Fictivision vs. Phynn Escape Fictivision/Phynn
F#m/11A Filterheadz Yimanya Original
Fm/4A G&M Project Sunday Afternoon Nu NRG
Cm/5A Gouryella Ligaya Original
Em/9A Holden Break in the Clouds Main Mix
Bb/6B Holden & Thompson Nothing 93 Returning
Am/8A Igor S Airforce One Original/Igor S
Bb/6B Iio Rapture Riva
Ab/4B Jase from Outta Space Do What You Want Infusion
Ab/4B Jase from Outta Space Do What You Want Max Graham
Gm/6A Jewel Intuition Markus Schulz
Abm/1A Joey Negro Must be the music Club
Dm/7A Jono Grant vs. Mike Koglin Circuits Original/Jono Grant Deep Rewire
Bm/10A Jose Amnesia The Eternal Nu NRG
Bbm/3A Jose Amnesia The Eternal Original/Thomas Datt
Gm/6A Josh Gabriel Alive Original
Ebm/2A Katana Tribal Shock (A13) Original
Eb/5B Katana Dukkha Original
Ebm/2A Katana In-silence Txitxarro/Scratch Bandicoot
Abm/1A Katana Fancy Fair 2005 Original
Am/8A Led Zeppelin Babe I'm Gonna Leave You Quivver
C/8B Liquid Child Diving Faces Club
Cm/5A Little Wonder Eclipse Original
Em/9A Lostep Burma Sasha
Abm/1A Luke Chable Melburn Original
Bm/10A Luke Chable Into the storm Original
Cm/5A Madonna Die Another Day DJ Tiesto
Am/8A Mannix Mercury Original/Arizona
Am/8A Marc et Claude NE Moonman
Am/8A Marco V C:/Del*mp3 Original
Am/8A Marco V Solarize Original
Cm/5A Marco V Loops n Things Original/Combi:nations
Gm/6A Marco V Automanual Original
Bm/10A Mark Norman Phantom Manor Original
Abm/1A Mark Norman Rush Original
Dm/7A Mark Otten Tranquility Original
Fm/4A Maurice & Noble Hoochie Koochie Man Original
Bm/10A Mauro Picotto Komodo Megavoices Claxixx
Em/9A Mauro Picotto & Ricardo Ferri New Time New Place Original
A/11B MFA The Difference It Makes Original
Bm/10A Mike Koglin Enjoy the silence 2005/Will Holland/Tekara
Am/8A MK-S Illuminate Original/Mind One
Bm/10A Motorcycle As the Rush Comes Gabriel & Dresden/Markus Schulz
Am/8A Music Freedom Fighters Digweed & Nuir Dub
Dm/7A Nalin & Kane Beachball Gabriel & Dresden
A/11B Nathan Fake Outhouse Main Mix
Eb/5B Nathan Fake Sky was pink Holden
Dm/7A Nickelson Yin Solid Globe
Abm/1A Nirvana Smells like teen spirit Adam Freeland
Ebm/2A Nubreed & Luke Chable One day Chable's Extension Dub
Abm/1A Nubreed & Luke Chable One day Poxymusic's Another Day Dub
Bm/10A Oakenfold Southern Sun Gabriel & Dresden/Tiesto
Em/9A Oakenfold Hypnotised Deepsky
Fm/4A Oakenfold Hypnotised Kowalski
Am/8A Oceanlab Satellite Above & Beyond
Dm/7A Paul Van Dyk For An Angel PVD's E-werk Club/Way Out West
Fm/4A Paul Van Dyk Connected Marco V
Am/8A Paul Van Dyk Time of Our Lives Starecase
Am/8A Paul Van Dyk Crush PVD Album
Am/8A Paul Van Dyk Crush Vandit club/PVD Original/PVD
Bbm/3A Perry O'neill Wave Force Original
Dm/7A Piece Process Solar Myth Original/Markus Schulz Breaks
Dbm/12A Planet Perfecto Not over yet 99 Matt Darey
Ebm/2A Plastic Boy Silver Bath Original
Am/8A PQM You Are Sleeping PQM Meets Luke Chable
Ebm/2A PUSH Universal Nation 2003 PUSH
Am/8A Radiohead Street Spirit DJ Tiesto
Dm/7A Rank 1 Airwave K-series (Original ?)
E/12B Remy & Roland Klinkenberg Fearless Original
Dbm/12A Rico Soarez TV Dinner Original
Dm/7A Ridgewalkers Find Andy Moor
Gm/6A Ridgewalkers Find Kyau vs. Albert
Abm/1A Robbie Rivera Funk a tron Main Mix
Fm/4A Robert Miles Children Dream Version
Fm/4A Robert Nickson Ocean Drive Original
Ebm/2A Robert Nickson Twisted by design Original
Fm/4A Ronski Speed EOS MK-S
Am/8A Ronski Speed EOS Original
Am/8A Ronski Speed EOS Perry O'neil
Fm/4A Ronski Speed EOS Re:Locate
Am/8A Salt Tank Eugina Michael Woods
Em/9A Sandler Theme Song Original/Sandler
Em/9A Sasha Belfunk Original
Db/3B Sasha Rabbitweed Original
Gm/6A Sasha Xpander Original
Em/9A Scott Bond vs. Solar Stone 3rd Earth Agnelli & Nelson/Original
Bm/10A Scott Bond vs. Solar Stone Naked Angel Dynamic Sense
Fm/4A Shakedown At Night Rulers of the Deep
Fm/4A Shakedown At Night Alan Braxe
Cm/5A Shapeshifter's Lola's Theme Extended Vocal
Abm/1A Signum First Strike Original
Fm/4A Signum First Strike Mark Norman
Abm/1A Signum Push Through Original
Abm/1A Signum First Strike Signum Signal
Ebm/2A Signum Timelord Original
Gm/6A Signum Timelord Spectral Balance
Fm/4A Sonorous Glass Garden Ronski Speed
Am/8A Spiller Groovejet Original
Am/8A Spooky Belong Sasha
Cm/5A Starecase Faith Loafer
Cm/5A Super8 Alba Original
Gm/6A Super8 Dawn Original
Bm/10A System F Exhale Original/Sander Kleinenberg
Abm/1A Three Drives Greece 2000 Original
Fm/4A Three Drives Carrera 2 Original
Ebm/2A Three Drives Air Traffic Original/DJ Cor Fijneman Outstanding
Abm/1A Thrillseekers Synaesthesia Ferry Corsten
Gm/6A Thrillseekers Synaesthesia En-Motion 2004 Edit
F#m/11A Ulrich Schnauss On my own Sasha
Em/9A Underworld Dark & Long Original
Em/9A Underworld Mmm skyscraper I love you Original
Gm/6A Underworld Surfboy Original
Gm/6A Underworld Spoonman Original
Am/8A Underworld Tongue Original
Em/9A Underworld Dirty Epic Original
Gm/6A Underworld Cowgirl Original
Fm/4A Underworld River of bass Original
Cm/5A Underworld M.E. Original
Ebm/2A Underworld Born Slippy Nuxx Original
Gm/6A Underworld Born Slippy Nuxx Paul Oakenfold 2003
Em/9A UNKLE Reign Evil 9
F#m/11A Vadim Zhukov Exit Original/Robert Nickson
Em/9A Wamdue Project King of My Castle Armin Van Buuren
Ebm/2A Whirlpool Under the Sun Solar Stone
Cm/5A Whiteroom The White Room Original/B-Jammin
Gm/6A Whiteroom Someday Enmass/Instrumental/Vocal
F#/2B William Orbit Ravel's Pavane pour une Infante Defunte Ferry Corsten

Matthew Dekay vs. Proluctors - Bad/What If

Bad = G#m
What If = Em

I had a little question too. When I found the key for 'Bad', it said "G#m/Abm." However, I don't know which 'm' should be capitalized. Is it G# major/Ab minor or the opposite?

quote:

i think music theory can explain why each works

And i will say....

Qualia ,music theory can't explain everything what composer had done or planed in his track ,for this there are specific reasons(because composers can broke the rules,and they do it very often,i mean very often,very very)(and when you break the rules ,thats mean you broked one of the rules of holly theory)(Hmm...hmm....).

Well... ,you catched me when you sad :"you need to understand the "rules" of music theory before you can break them effectively"

Hmmm.........
ill tell you that.I know music theory...,and my knowledge alow me to understand that and to say what i already sad and will,and more than that ,you cant break the rules ,there are already breaked()

I like jazz too ,so i dont think that jazz is clashing to me and i dont categorise it as "clashing" ,i gave an example of what other people are saying about that .

Finaly ,i think you shouldnt take those harmonical stuff more serios,as you sad:

quote:

not only do i find myself combining melodies and harmonies of songs

maybe,but its hard to say,(if you mean all this thing wich has been sad by camelot and others,example:Cm can be perfectly mixed with Cm or Fm or Gm or EbM)if you meant basic rule of camelot and other,but i disagree with those rule ,just because this is not rules for mixing
And your melodies and harmonies can be mixed with other keys ,not only with those wich camelot gave .and what about Innercity' Mix cd os1999 did you cheked it Or Armin's last asot2004 or Hi-bias' mix of Lange and Plastic angel or M.O.S's Trance America three ...did you cheked all those ones ?what those great dj's like Tiesto ,Armin,Lange and many others ,mixed their melodies with in the keys?or they used in those mixes ,chart of scales?or they tryed to match their melody of mixed track with the other track in the key?--------------No and No and No________that would be my answer--------- .
About from C#m to Dm ,i remeber i analyzed the Ferry Corsten Mix of Trance energy 2000 and from 12 tracks of that set i heard 8 or less(i dont remember ) had been mixed just one semitone up(ex:Cm to Dm)
and that sounded fantastic(from Cm to Dm m its very far key from Cm,so we can call it as not posible mix as camelot .......)
I gave an example here before about Trance ,harmonical mixing tips :
You move just for one semitone (Ex: C#m to Dm) ,thats acts like energy lift.................................--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ill try to post later for Nemessis44 .
Sorry i should run ,i work at sundays too.
-----------------------------------------------(thnx)(sheers)-------

quote:

Originally posted by RonAron303 Hi Nemesis44 ,you totaly right about Armin's mix and he had been choose some record ,that will harmonicaly mix(he pitched ave mea to Gm) with Gm and Dm(iam shure that he had more tracks to mix with,not just Ave mea ,but he choose Ave mea cause it match the harmony too(since,he sad that the whole mix of asot cd will be mixed harmonicaly)so, i totaly agree with you ,that he had to choose some ,lets say from 5 or more songs 1,and mix (that they will be match both,structure) I gave an example of opera just because i wanted to show that there is no realy rules to mix harmonicaly. I heard that people say :"oh he mixed out of tune (kinda clashes),and its not sounds to my ears" . But its totaly boulshet ,i know some people ,who have perfect pitch and they say : "i dont like jazz ,just because its kick my ears",and those people have 30 years of classical training , so what,do they right?do jazz dont have biuty of the sounds? And for shure there is A-tonal music ,which not contain keys(all keys are welcome). Or for example : 4strings's track turn it around ,in this track the root is Emin and EMaj but the lady sings in C#m ,so what ? She do sing out of tune ?or sombody will say that is not biutyfull ? So,as i understand all the point is to amaizin people out there at the parties ,so why we should realy mix harmonicaly ?and if you want to amaizin people ,you shour not going to mix harmonicaly . Well,Armin did good job ,and mostly i enjoy with hes structural progressions. So,again there is for shure more to learn about harmony by its selfs and not just some Cm to Gm wich good too ,but not enought(i mean, your specific fealings about harmony,which colours(keys and chords) are bringing to you happynnes and wich not or other fealings.(thnx)(cheers)

#


all armin did here was he realised that he wanted to mix space guitar and ave mea. in the end is F#m and has a BPM of 127.8 and space guitar is Gm and has a BPM of 134.0 i.e. in the end therefore needed to be speeded up to around +5.5 (not accurate so dont go mad!!!!). Therefore Ava mea became Gm, and should therefore have mixed nicely - is this correct??

so speeding up by +6 is needed to change a song 1 key up is this correct? i.e. ava mea is F#m but by pitching it to +6 it became Gm?? Am i right here??????

you're right johnny :-)

quote:

Originally posted by johnny2003 so speeding up by +6 is needed to change a song 1 key up is this correct? i.e. ava mea is F#m but by pitching it to +6 it became Gm?? Am i right here??????

Technically yes
The only thing that could have an impact is the pitch of the other track in relation to it's original key.

Let's say you have a track that is F#m and it needs to be set at +6 in order to be mixed with the track that is currently playing. The track that is currently playing is at 0% and is a Gm. These two tracks would blend well as they would both technically be Gm.

If however the percentage differency between them is less than about 4% it is highly probably that they will sound quite bad together.

Cheers
Nem

so what would pitching a song by +/-3 do? i.e. half of a step up to/down to the next key?????? And how is this classed if its half way between a F#m and a Gm, for example???

quote:

Originally posted by johnny2003 so what would pitching a song by +/-3 do? i.e. half of a step up to/down to the next key?????? And how is this classed if its half way between a F#m and a Gm, for example???

Exactly as you say, this is half a semitones difference.
However in answer to your question this can be very hit and miss.
Sometimes it can sound fine but I would say that a difference of 3% in pitch is the outermost limit you can use without it sounding too bad.
If it will work or not depends on a multitude of factors in each song. Depending on how true it was to it's original tone at 0% in the first place i.e. did the producers pitch it up after it's creation without timestretching, the level of detune on some of the instruments and so on.

I think of it like bending a string on a guitar. You can bend it as much as you need to and it may sound ok, but you have to work out when it's ok to do so.
This may or may not work also depending on how much you have playing and what scale it's played in.

Food for thought.

Cheers
Nem

Just for reference, can anyone post the sequential order of keys for me? This would help a person with very little musical background like myself tremendously :P

Just wondering...how much would you pay for PQM - Nameless?

quote:

Originally posted by TruffleShuffle Just for reference, can anyone post the sequential order of keys for me? This would help a person with very little musical background like myself tremendously :P

you mean like this????:

Cm, C#m, Dm, D#m, Em, Fm, F#m, Gm, G#m, Am, A#m, Bm

or majors:

C, C#, D, D#, E, F, F#, G, G#, A, A#, B

of course the sharps can also be named flats too i.e. F#m can be considered a Gbm (G flat minor), or C# is also Db

this in terms of the camelot system is:

5A, 12A, 7A, 2A, 9A, 4A, 11A, 6A, 1A, 8A, 3A, 10A FOR MINORS

8B, 3B, 10B, 5B, 12B, 7B, 2B, 9B, 4B, 11B, 6B, 1B FOR MAJORS

hope this helps ;-)

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